The Current Situation

[Spanish]

FFP works for us because long contracts spreading the cost.  Selling someone at a loss early on would surely christalise the cost in one year if it works similar to depreciation.  Just guessing though.

so it might be so easy to dump some of the poor signings

[Warwick Ram]

We will be in the exact same position next season. You cannot appoint a manager in pre-season and expect it to just click. It happened once with Billy Davies and look what happened next. A new manager will come in he will need to work with the players, get to know them, get on with them and establish his best team. If he does not like a player then he needs to replace them. Yet again it could take 10 games into a new season before things settle. If you look at Hull, Boro, a rightly and Dyche they all have settled managers who have been there more then a season. It took Karanka time at Boro to get things moving and even Hughton at Brighton had almost half a season before this one to bed in. Paul Clement may not have gained promotion this season but this season may have been good for him as next year he would have been more experienced, he would of known the players and may have even figured out his best team. He knew his best back five before Forsyth got injured. I would even say he knew six of his first tea before Forsyths injury with it being Carson, Christie, Keogh, Shackell, Forsyth and Thorne. It was the rest he had not quite figured out. McLaren's success in the first season was because of the 12 game winning streak he had. In the second season he was solely dependant on Thorne to make his system work and we he got injured it started to falter as McLaren's teams cannot defend. If Thorne had been fit last year we would have got promoted. We could be fortunate and a new manager could come in and it could just click, but we cannot just hope for that. Mel Morris needs to decide who he wants to manage the club now, give them the rest of this season and then kick on next year. He cannot wait until pre-season in my opinion.

[Mostyn6]

1 minute ago, derby1884 said:

We will be in the exact same position next season. You cannot appoint a manager in pre-season and expect it to just click. It happened once with Billy Davies and look what happened next. A new manager will come in he will need to work with the players, get to know them, get on with them and establish his best team. If he does not like a player then he needs to replace them. Yet again it could take 10 games into a new season before things settle. If you look at Hull, Boro, a rightly and Dyche they all have settled managers who have been there more then a season. It took Karanka time at Boro to get things moving and even Hughton at Brighton had almost half a season before this one to bed in. Paul Clement may not have gained promotion this season but this season may have been good for him as next year he would have been more experienced, he would of known the players and may have even figured out his best team. He knew his best back five before Forsyth got injured. I would even say he knew six of his first tea before Forsyths injury with it being Carson, Christie, Keogh, Shackell, Forsyth and Thorne. It was the rest he had not quite figured out. McLaren's success in the first season was because of the 12 game winning streak he had. In the second season he was solely dependant on Thorne to make his system work and we he got injured it started to falter as McLaren's teams cannot defend. If Thorne had been fit last year we would have got promoted. We could be fortunate and a new manager could come in and it could just click, but we cannot just hope for that. Mel Morris needs to decide who he wants to manage the club now, give them the rest of this season and then kick on next year. He cannot wait until pre-season in my opinion.

did you see any progress during Clements 30 odd games? Did any player improve? 

You mention Karanka and Dyche, they showed signs of progress in their first 30 games. They showed a settled style and preferred 11. Clement never got close and was never going to get close.

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

We've played 7 league games in 2016 and scored 3 goals. 

There in lies the problem. 

4 shots on target in the last 2 home games combined, we need something in return to cheer on the players.

The managerial staff and players alike need to throw the supporters a bone. 

And we are planning on seeing this out till June (if some reports are to be believed). 

The right action to take is get an experienced manager in now and we can still pull this season from the ashes. 

[nottingram]

First and foremost, we need a manager that will stick to the plan come what may, and this is the absolute most important thing. As fans we need to be able to back the manager even if bad results happen, so that there's no pressure to slip into survival football. This is why I don't mind giving Wassall a chance, so he has a chance to try and develop a long term plan.

Then we need to define a shape that we play, and stick to it. No changing formation to a diamond to negate Rotherham or anything like that just stick to the shape, and build a team and squad round it. Have two players for each position with a scattering of U21 players ready to come in if needs be, so in reality there's probably a squad of maximum 25 to pick from.

So in a 4-3-3 you'd probably be looking at Carson, Mitchell, Christie, AN Other, Rawson, Keogh, Shackell, Buxton, Forsyth, Olsson, Thorne, Hanson, Bryson, Hendrick, Hughes, Butterfield, Ince, Russell, Martin, AN Other x2.

Then you could have Lowe, Zanzala maybe, Guy, Vernam etc all ready to make a step up if need be. There needs to be a policy of trusting youngsters to play if the opportunity becomes available. So when Thorne is injured, Hanson would need to be trusted with a run of games where he's allowed to learn from mistakes he makes. 

In terms of transfers, this means clearing out a lot of deadwood. Johnson, Weimann, Pearce, Baird, Bent and all the others can go. And to replace them we don't need much more than a new right back to at least compete with Christie, a viable alternative to Martin and a top top class right footed winger who can play on either side. 

[sage]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

First and foremost, we need a manager that will stick to the plan come what may, and this is the absolute most important thing. As fans we need to be able to back the manager even if bad results happen, so that there's no pressure to slip into survival football. This is why I don't mind giving Wassall a chance, so he has a chance to try and develop a long term plan.

Then we need to define a shape that we play, and stick to it. No changing formation to a diamond to negate Rotherham or anything like that just stick to the shape, and build a team and squad round it. Have two players for each position with a scattering of U21 players ready to come in if needs be, so in reality there's probably a squad of maximum 25 to pick from.

So in a 4-3-3 you'd probably be looking at Carson, Mitchell, Christie, AN Other, Rawson, Keogh, Shackell, Buxton, Forsyth, Olsson, Thorne, Hanson, Bryson, Hendrick, Hughes, Butterfield, Ince, Russell, Martin, AN Other x2.

Then you could have Lowe, Zanzala maybe, Guy, Vernam etc all ready to make a step up if need be. There needs to be a policy of trusting youngsters to play if the opportunity becomes available. So when Thorne is injured, Hanson would need to be trusted with a run of games where he's allowed to learn from mistakes he makes. 

In terms of transfers, this means clearing out a lot of deadwood. Johnson, Weimann, Pearce, Baird, Bent and all the others can go. And to replace them we don't need much more than a new right back to at least compete with Christie, a viable alternative to Martin and a top top class right footed winger who can play on either side. 

Excellent post, especially the highlighted bits !!

[Bris Vegas]

I maintain that I could do a better job than Derby's current recruitment team.

Said it last summer. We've wasted £25m and brought in only three worthwhile players (Carson, Shackell and Butterfield). 

I named exactly what we needed last summer. When you have the basis of a 4-3-3 that works, it's very simple to identify the weak spots and improve it. Instead, we bought a shed load of players who either don't fit the system, or are no better than what we had.

We've gone from having a vibrant fresh young team to an overbloated squad full of average players on big wages.

Sheffield Wednesday started off with a much worse team than us, spent about half the amount we have, and now have a proper system in place with eleven round pegs in eleven round holes.

It's embarassing how they've managed to overtake us...

[DCFCArmy]

I'm impressed with Sheff Weds, they've built a good solid team there and remind me of us in the 2013/14 season, good passing high tempo side.

Its depressing how far we've gone backwards this season, we need a manager not a head coach and that's down to Mel Morris, if not Nigel Pearson then who? because right now the list is pretty short of good names, Moyes and Rodgers aren't going to want to come here.  

[eddie]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

did you see any progress during Clements 30 odd games? Did any player improve? 

You mention Karanka and Dyche, they showed signs of progress in their first 30 games. They showed a settled style and preferred 11. Clement never got close and was never going to get close.

Ove the last 6 or 7 games I saw a manager who knew less about his players than he knew at the start of the season - and it appears he knew very little then. Occasionally a random selection would work (oh look, Paul Clement has got a plan 'B'), then the following week a slight change in personnel and any cohesion disappeared. I was firmly in the 'Clement In' camp, and felt it was only a matter of time before we started burying teams, but come the end of December the performance level and the spirit of the players in the first team dropped off alarmingly, and has got progressively worse.

[Alph]

The wingers get on my nerves. As does Shackell.

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

Regarding the current situation I understand Darren Wassell had the team playing long ball. If correct I am totally confused. I thought the Derby way was fast passing attacking controlled football. If he knew what was needed and resorted to something different and not only that went on to praise the performance can someone who was there tell me what is happening because I am totally confused. 

[CornwallRam]

Would one of you member+ people mind starting a poll - Manager or Head Coach as the way forward?

Which option do you believe is the most likely to bring success to Derby County?

Head Coach – Responsible for selecting the side and coaching the players. He has a significant input into recruitment, but has limited influence on the academy and has restrictions on which back room staff he can bring in.

Manager – Responsible for all football matters. Can bring in any staff he chooses within reason and is the major force behind all transfer decisions. He chooses how much or little he wants to be involved with the academy and can have a major influence on the academy staff and methods.

[eddie]

Remi Garde will be available in about 24 minutes time

[Duracell]

I think the last time we needed a clear out quite like this was 2008.

I'm still confused why we backed Clement so heavily - there is a difference between showing a bit of ambition and offering your manager no excuses (although some of us might look at the lacklustre recruitment team as a decent excuse for Clement's signings), and spending that much.

We've got the owner wanting steady, year-on-year progress and yet by the time Clement's settled in, we've already signed half a dozen players and no one is really sure how he's meant to fit them in. Then Hughes and Bryson get injured and we add two more, and before you know it, we could in theory play a Clough/Mac XI versus a 2015 Summer XI.

I just can't fathom why no one at the club took a step back and asked the question - "when has this ever worked out well?". We're comparing ourselves to Southampton and Swansea, but acting like QPR. Clement may be getting critcism for having a short-term view, and while he had the final say on who came in, it wasn't just him that was responsible for over-spending and creating a bloated squad.

What's frustrating is that last season's crisis was largely down to circumstance and bad luck. This season, it's been entirely manufactured and it almost feels like we've spent money on creating new problems.

Can't even put it down to hindsight when a number of posters were calling this in the summer. I kind of ignored my own doubts through a mixture of optimism and delusion, but I always wondered how all these new signings were suddenly going to become everyone's best mate.

[t'oldu]

Since Clements was new to this country, this league, English clubs and their players in general, I find it hard to believe he was in a position to make any hands-on judgements based on his own experience and long-term following of a players development and ability .  

 

 

[Carnero]

During the final period of the season, we need to settle on a system that gets the best out of our bloated squad. We also need to identify, if we haven't already, which players are surplus to requirements and get to work on shifting these players out ASAP. My thoughts would be that by the 2016/17 season we should have binned, permanently, Grant + Baird + Shotton + Buxton + Warnock + Weimann (if poss) + Camara (if poss) + Bent (if poss).

I'd like to see us trying a 4-1-3-2 formation with attacking full backs providing the width and would hope to see a more streamlined squad something like:-

CARSON (Mitchell, Roos)

CHRISTIE (New RWB), KEOGH (Rawson), SHACKELL (Pearce), FORSYTH (Olsson)

THORNE (Hanson)

HENDRICK (Bryson), HUGHES (Butterfield), JOHNSON (Russell)

MARTIN (New CF), BLACKMAN (Ince)

[The_Sheriff]

7 hours ago, Saul Pimpson said:

During the final period of the season, we need to settle on a system that gets the best out of our bloated squad. We also need to identify, if we haven't already, which players are surplus to requirements and get to work on shifting these players out ASAP. My thoughts would be that by the 2016/17 season we should have binned, permanently, Grant + Baird + Shotton + Buxton + Warnock + Weimann (if poss) + Camara (if poss) + Bent (if poss).

I'd like to see us trying a 4-1-3-2 formation with attacking full backs providing the width and would hope to see a more streamlined squad something like:-

CARSON (Mitchell, Roos)

CHRISTIE (New RWB), KEOGH (Rawson), SHACKELL (Pearce), FORSYTH (Olsson)

THORNE (Hanson)

HENDRICK (Bryson), HUGHES (Butterfield), JOHNSON (Russell)

MARTIN (New CF), BLACKMAN (Ince)

Grant- more then happy to have him as a no.2 He is a decent championship keeper.

Buxton- Solid no nonsense centre half. Can't be dissapointed to have him as back up

Wiemann- played out of position, Villa fans think hes too good for this league when we signed him just need to give him his chance up top.

Camara- he has barely played so to try offload him would not make no sense, needs a chance.

Bent- Natural Goal scorer probably the only one we have. Scored goals at the highest level and baffles me why he is not a starter nevermind not making the bench some weeks.

[RamNut]

On 14 February 2016 at 15:31, Duracell said:

I think the last time we needed a clear out quite like this was 2008.

I'm still confused why we backed Clement so heavily - there is a difference between showing a bit of ambition and offering your manager no excuses (although some of us might look at the lacklustre recruitment team as a decent excuse for Clement's signings), and spending that much.

We've got the owner wanting steady, year-on-year progress and yet by the time Clement's settled in, we've already signed half a dozen players and no one is really sure how he's meant to fit them in. Then Hughes and Bryson get injured and we add two more, and before you know it, we could in theory play a Clough/Mac XI versus a 2015 Summer XI.

I just can't fathom why no one at the club took a step back and asked the question - "when has this ever worked out well?". We're comparing ourselves to Southampton and Swansea, but acting like QPR. Clement may be getting critcism for having a short-term view, and while he had the final say on who came in, it wasn't just him that was responsible for over-spending and creating a bloated squad.

What's frustrating is that last season's crisis was largely down to circumstance and bad luck. This season, it's been entirely manufactured and it almost feels like we've spent money on creating new problems.

Can't even put it down to hindsight when a number of posters were calling this in the summer. I kind of ignored my own doubts through a mixture of optimism and delusion, but I always wondered how all these new signings were suddenly going to become everyone's best mate.

(Careful.....you're sounding like me)