Mafiabob Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 35 minutes ago, davenportram said: who else was injured that currently isn't getting picked that played regularly before the collapse last season? I'm on about last season, not this. Fair enough this... And I didn't get notification then you quoted.... Nowt wrong with forum is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: I'm on about last season, not this. Fair enough this... And I didn't get notification then you quoted.... Nowt wrong with forum is there? not that I know of. If you still dint get notifications start a thread about it in forum support so the boss sees it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Martin isn't mobile enough to beat defenders to crosses often, run the channels or play on the last man Martin isn't strong enough to hold the ball up for much time at all. Martin is good at minimal touch stuff working with players within ten yards. Martin can strike a decent shot and pick a pass if defenders are pulled off him. There's no point in playing Martin if we're not going to get much closer to him. He won't magically come good. He's a fussy player. Get closer to him, take defenders off him and he'll score 20 goals. Don't and he won't. He's not playing well. But he's not happy and enjoying himself. He's having to do a job he's not good at. He's doing his best but we're wasting his talent and our time. We have a 20 goal striker who looks like one of the best players in the league when there's possession pressure in the final third and he has bodies around and beyond him. Maybe we should do that? 37 crosses or something against Burnley. 30+ crosses. Anyone remember 5 of them? Me neither. Can keep trying to make him Steve Howard but that would be an utterly stupid waste of time. What we're asking him to do you'd be better off sticking Forsyth there when he gets back!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 4 hours ago, Alpha said: What we're asking him to do you'd be better off sticking Forsyth there when he gets back!! Talking of Fozzy, he's a player that brings the best out of Martin IMO. I don't think Forsyth is a fanastic player but he's a vital cog in the working parts we've had in recent years. Always got his head up looking to play forward and into feet. Then there's that trademark move where he goes on the wide overlap, winger comes inside, Martin lays off, throughball to Fozzy and we're in. His final ball is sometimes disappointing but he gets in those positions required to create chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKRam Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Noob question: is this playing beyond Martin stuff a system devised by McClaren, or we were already playing like this under Clough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StockholmRam Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Good thread this one... When Chris Martin does his best work for Derby it is most certainly with support players from midfield or wide getting beyond him and linking up. The Thorne goal on Friday is as good an example as it's possible to give. Martin has excellent vision of players around him and the runs they are making. As we saw under Steve McLaren it worked very well generally. However, although Mac and Clements set up of 4-3-3 appears the same on paper it is far from in terms of personnel playing it. 4-3-3 with players bombing on looking to break into the box also requires amazing box to box energy for the whole 90 mins. Its one of the most important ethics of playing 4-3-3 Hughes as an example was fantastic at getting back to help Thorne or Eustace by covering ground and putting tackles in. He didn't get nearly enough praise or acknowledgement for that part of his game. Bryson, when fit, had great energy to make the runs and then get back if the move broke down. That whole Hughes, Thorne, Eustace, Hendrick, Bryson midfield worked very well and had good balance to it. The current midfield with Butterfield and Johnson does not come close to having the energy needed to constantly support Martin...then Thorne... Then Martin etc... Bradley Johnson is fast become no mans land in it and I feel sorry for him in football terms. He is simply a passenger until Clement drops him or finds a system that suits him which will probably be at Martins expense. To get the best out of both of them, in the same team, is not something I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKRam Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 5 hours ago, Alpha said: Martin isn't mobile enough to beat defenders to crosses often, run the channels or play on the last man Martin isn't strong enough to hold the ball up for much time at all. Martin is good at minimal touch stuff working with players within ten yards. Martin can strike a decent shot and pick a pass if defenders are pulled off him. 37 crosses or something against Burnley. 30+ crosses. Anyone remember 5 of them? Me neither. Can keep trying to make him Steve Howard but that would be an utterly stupid waste of time. What we're asking him to do you'd be better off sticking Forsyth there when he gets back!! What worries me is that PC seems to be impressed by the number of crosses made in that game, judging by how he responded in the post match interview. and can someone articulate for me what style of play PC is trying to achieve, exactly? Someone mentioned overload in another thread by did not eleaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 If Chris Martin had pace to go with his control and vision he would have been a regular at consistent premier league clubs a long time back and not at Derby at all. We constantly hear that we lack pace here and there which is true but you need a football brain to go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 15 hours ago, Warren Hobhead said: I refuse to keep excusing Martin though, as others keep doing. One goal from open play in about 20 games. That's pathetic at any level. The things is though, can you honestly remember the last decent goal-scoring opportunity Martin had? The last time he was in a situation you'd expect him to score? Look at his goals this season, about half of them are half chances. Even when he was scoring he wasn't getting them handed to him on a plate. Simple Goals Brentford - diverted a cross. Huddersfield - shot bounced through to him, in behind the defence, touch, bang. Wolves 2 - beat the keeper to Johnson's ball, directed it in. Brave, but technically easy. Brighton - penalty. Self-Created/Difficult Chance Goals Charlton - receives the ball on the edge of the box, stood-up by their defence, creates half a yard and bang. Leeds - like the Charlton goal. Preston 2 - free-kick. Wolves 1 - 20-yard first-time curling screamer. His first goal against Preston belongs somewhere in the middle. The ball to send him through was marvellous but the chance would have been gone had Martin's touch not been perfect. In recent seasons the vast bulk of his goals have been first time finishes from about 8-yards out. Quite different this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 3 minutes ago, cannable said: The things is though, can you honestly remember the last decent goal-scoring opportunity Martin had? The last time he was in a situation you'd expect him to score? Look at his goals this season, about half of them are half chances. Even when he was scoring he wasn't getting them handed to him on a plate. Simple Goals Brentford - diverted a cross. Huddersfield - shot bounced through to him, in behind the defence, touch, bang. Wolves 2 - beat the keeper to Johnson's ball, directed it in. Brave, but technically easy. Brighton - penalty. Self-Created/Difficult Chance Goals Charlton - receives the ball on the edge of the box, stood-up by their defence, creates half a yard and bang. Leeds - like the Charlton goal. Preston 2 - free-kick. Wolves 1 - 20-yard first-time curling screamer. His first goal against Preston belongs somewhere in the middle. The ball to send him through was marvellous but the chance would have been gone had Martin's touch not been perfect. In recent seasons the vast bulk of his goals have been first time finishes from about 8-yards out. Quite different this season. I can, against Man Utd when he was in but his first touch was absolutely woeful and allowed Smalling to recover. I get your point, the opportunities have been far lesser than he's used to but he's still been poor himself. He is not blameless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 34 minutes ago, SaintRam said: I can, against Man Utd when he was in but his first touch was absolutely woeful and allowed Smalling to recover. I get your point, the opportunities have been far lesser than he's used to but he's still been poor himself. He is not blameless. Would many championship defenders got to him though? And would they have won the ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 10 minutes ago, rynny said: Would many championship defenders got to him though? And would they have won the ball? A year ago his first touch would have been impeccable and that question wouldn't need to be asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 1 minute ago, SaintRam said: A year ago his first touch would have been impeccable and that question wouldn't need to be asked. Maybe so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 So what we are saying is Derby needs to play for Martin. I always thought it should be vise versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 No, just that playing a certain way get's the best out of a very good player. Playing the opposite doesn't get the best out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Then shouldn't we try get the best out of ince by playing him behind the striker. Or the best out of warnock by playing a formation where he does not need to be bursting forward and back all game. Or the best out of blackman/wiemann by playing them up front instead of wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Of course, we're not playing to Martin's/Ince/Weimann/Blackman's strengths which totally begs the question why we bothered blowing the best part of 10 million on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 28 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said: Of course, we're not playing to Martin's/Ince/Weimann/Blackman's strengths which totally begs the question why we bothered blowing the best part of 10 million on them. Are we playing to anybody strengths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 4 hours ago, cannable said: The things is though, can you honestly remember the last decent goal-scoring opportunity Martin had? The last time he was in a situation you'd expect him to score? Look at his goals this season, about half of them are half chances. Even when he was scoring he wasn't getting them handed to him on a plate. Simple Goals Brentford - diverted a cross. Huddersfield - shot bounced through to him, in behind the defence, touch, bang. Wolves 2 - beat the keeper to Johnson's ball, directed it in. Brave, but technically easy. Brighton - penalty. Self-Created/Difficult Chance Goals Charlton - receives the ball on the edge of the box, stood-up by their defence, creates half a yard and bang. Leeds - like the Charlton goal. Preston 2 - free-kick. Wolves 1 - 20-yard first-time curling screamer. His first goal against Preston belongs somewhere in the middle. The ball to send him through was marvellous but the chance would have been gone had Martin's touch not been perfect. In recent seasons the vast bulk of his goals have been first time finishes from about 8-yards out. Quite different this season. In this video you see the best of Martin (for Thorne's goal) and him ruining a great chance created for him by Butterfield due to an awful first touch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlSk14Hz9E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Well he has set up two goals last week. 1 hour ago, Simsy said: So what we are saying is Derby needs to play for Martin. I always thought it should be vise versa. It's mutual. For the last 2 years we've played to his strengths and it's benefitted more than just him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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