Curtains Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Don't understand what it means. People keep going on about it . Dont we do it anyway ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 You're not serious about this Curtains????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said: You're not serious about this Curtains????? Totally serious . These people think they know better than our manager as if he had never thought about it. They go on about half fit Bryson and Hendrick coming in to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 For me it means somebody playing the ball in to Martin, he either holds it and passes it or first time passes it to the on coming midfielder or winger who is advancing into the penalty box who scores a goal for the mighty Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, Sparkle said: For me it means somebody playing the ball in to Martin, he either holds it and passes it or first time passes it to the on coming midfielder or winger who is advancing into the penalty box who scores a goal for the mighty Rams. Right so Martin holds the ball up for how long about 2 seconds then lays it off and Johnson and Thorne and Butterfiield get beyond him all the time and don't bother about any cover to protect the defence . i bet the coach hasn't thought about that one Gung-ho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
climbon Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Its not gung ho...only 1 midfielder needs to do it the other 2 can sit back and protect. See butterfields goal against Hull...in that case Weimann was the on running player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Just now, curtains said: Right so Martin holds the ball up for how long about 2 seconds then lays it off and Johnson and Thorne and Butterfiield get beyond him all the time and don't bother about any cover to protect the defense , Gung-ho No, it's about some one doing it, not all 5 of the wingers and midfield. Thorne did it on Friday... Goal. Not seen Johnson do it since he got here. This is the problem. No use giving the ball to Martin and the nearest person being 25 yards away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Its quite simple really. Chris Martin is a 20 goal a season striker when he has players running beyond him. He links up, lays it off and it also creates more space for him. If he's isolated he's very average, surround him with intelligent runners and he's very good. Whether those runners are Hendrick, Bryson, Buttterfield or Johnson is irrelevant. Is it the managers tactics or the natural style of the players? I don't know....I just feel we are not getting the best out of a tremendous asset. Watch Thorne's goal against man u again curtains and tell me what Chris would have done with the ball if George hadn't made that run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. Martin is very good at playing with his back to goal and picking out the runs made by other players. Anyone who has watched Derby for the last few seasons can recall numerous instances where goals have been created for midfielders like Bryson, Hendrick and Hughes in this fashion. Johnson and Butterfield don't get nearly close enough to Martin. Martin is largely ineffective when other players don't get beyond him and everyone can see it. George Thorne saw it against Man United, so he took it upon himself to make the required run even though he's not obligated to as a defensive midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, Srg said: No, it's about some one doing it, not all 5 of the wingers and midfield. Thorne did it on Friday... Goal. Not seen Johnson do it since he got here. This is the problem. No use giving the ball to Martin and the nearest person being 25 yards away. The Thorne goal . Martin did his job well having received the ball from a header won by Ince and clipped it into Thorne. Brilliant goal. What happens then when it breaks down as it invariably does . i will tell you the opposition counter attack and do us on the break and that's the dilemma against good teams It doesn't always work . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 minute ago, curtains said: The Thorne goal . Martin did his job well having received the ball from a header won by Ince and clipped it into Thorne. Brilliant goal. What happens then when it breaks down as it invariably does . i will tell you the opposition counter attack and do us on the break and that's the dilemma against good teams It doesn't always work . We'd win every game 5-4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, Srg said: No, it's about some one doing it, not all 5 of the wingers and midfield. Thorne did it on Friday... Goal. Not seen Johnson do it since he got here. This is the problem. No use giving the ball to Martin and the nearest person being 25 yards away. I agree but Martin needs to hold the ball up which he isn't doing a lot of the time . Ince won the ball for Thornes goal with his head and to Martins credit he put a good ball in for Thornes run . Clement has already thought about it then and it's just the execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 21 minutes ago, curtains said: Right so Martin holds the ball up for how long about 2 seconds then lays it off and Johnson and Thorne and Butterfiield get beyond him all the time and don't bother about any cover to protect the defense , Gung-ho not everytime and not all of them at once. Its up to the midfielders to judge who will make the run and when. PC spoke specifically about it being our best chance to score in his post match interview. it worked on Friday when they did it, it used to get Bryson goals. It doesn't always have to be a central midfielder either. A wide man can easily get a flick on from Martin into space and then its up to the rest of the forwards to get into the box for a cross or pull back. why aren't we doing it more this season. Three reasons, one defenses are clued up against it and get real close on Martin. And two, no one seems capable of giving Martin a pass he can hold up and lay off, or lay off straight way. And three the wide men are either not making the runs or are too central. in short we need Buckos passing, which means the midfield can make the runs without being the ones making the passes, and his long passing will mean the opposition full backs can't push up in case he pings it long to someone making a run behind them. Which will then mean our full backs can push up (because the opposition are forced back a bit) allowing the wide forwards to make the runs past Martin. that's why Bucko is missed - lacking that long accurate pass option draws the opposition onto us and increases the pressure on our defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, Anon said: It really isn't a difficult concept to understand. Martin is very good at playing with his back to goal and picking out the runs made by other players. Anyone who has watched Derby for the last few seasons can recall numerous instances where goals have been created for midfielders like Bryson, Hendrick and Hughes in this fashion. Johnson and Butterfield don't get nearly close enough to Martin. Martin is largely ineffective when other players don't get beyond him and everyone can see it. George Thorne saw it against Man United, so he took it upon himself to make the required run even though he's not obligated to as a defensive midfielder. I understand it but it's not always on . Your forgetting about the opposition trying to stop you doing it Always 2 teams in a game. The opposition want to break on you when the midfield gets too far forward. Clement has thought of this already you know and he doesn't need us to tell him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, davenportram said: not everytime and not all of them at once. Its up to the midfielders to judge who will make the run and when. PC spoke specifically about it being our best chance to score in his post match interview. it worked on Friday when they did it, it used to get Bryson goals. It doesn't always have to be a central midfielder either. A wide man can easily get a flick on from Martin into space and then its up to the rest of the forwards to get into the box for a cross or pull back. why aren't we doing it more this season. Two reasons, one defenses are clued up against it and get real close on Martin. And two, no one seems capable of giving Martin a pass he can hold up and lay off, or lay off straight way. And three the wide men are either not making the runs or are too central. in short we need Buckos passing, which means the midfield can make the runs without being the ones making the passes, and his long passing will mean the opposition full backs can't push up in case he pings it long to someone making a run behind them. Which will then mean our full backs can push up (because the opposition are forced back a bit) allowing the wide forwards to make the runs past Martin. that's why Bucko is missed - lacking that long accurate pass option draws the opposition onto us and increases the pressure on our defense. That makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 9 minutes ago, curtains said: The Thorne goal . Martin did his job well having received the ball from a header won by Ince and clipped it into Thorne. Brilliant goal. What happens then when it breaks down as it invariably does . i will tell you the opposition counter attack and do us on the break and that's the dilemma against good teams It doesn't always work . Invariably - adverb Every time, without exception, always I guess that Thorne's goal didn't happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, curtains said: I agree but Martin needs to hold the ball up which he isn't doing a lot of the time . Ince won the ball for Thornes goal with his head and to Martins credit he put a good ball in for Thornes run . Clement has already thought about it then and it's just the execution. how many decent passes does Martin get that are actually passes he can lay off or hold up. And when he does get one players aren't making the runs past him because the opposition press a high line which stops them being able to make the runs because of the risk of losing the ball and them having space. until we actually give the opposition a reason to sit off us and protect the space behind them it will not happen. We have no long pass option, no player that is playing is capable of passing 40-50 yards behind a defense to a player running into space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It doesn't always work, but how are we currently trying to play? Maybe we are trying to do that but the runners are either to far away,can't think quick enough or nobody can pass appropriately to Martin gung ho it isn't if the quality is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ketteringram Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Irrelevant now anyway. Thorne has probably been fined for doing it. Won't see anyone try any of that nonsense again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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