Chris Martin - flat track bully?

[Rev]

Last night while walking away from the match, my lad stated "Chris Martin only plays well against crap teams".

After a brief pause, while he picked himself off the floor and located his missing teeth, I walked back to the car wondering if he had a point.

It's also something I've seen and heard at various points, so decided to research to see if it can be backed up statistically. 

The following is a breakdown of goals scored vs final league position of opponents from the time he signed permanently, until now.

Regular league goals only, split into 3 divisions, top 8, middle 8, and bottom 8.

As we've been in the top 8 during that time, obviously there's a 12.5% less chance of scoring in that category.

2013/14

20 goals, 3 (15%) against top 8, 5 (25%) against mid table teams, and 12 (60%) vs the bottom 8.

2014/15

18 goals, 5 (28%) vs top 8, 2 (11%) vs mid table, and 11 (61%) vs the bottom 8.

2015/2016 so far

9 goals, 1 (11%) vs top 8, 6 (67%) vs mid table, and 2 (22%) against the bottom 8.

Worth bearing in mind that during those first 2 seasons, 21% of his goals came against the relegated teams.

I know we have a couple of threads on Martin already, but this didn't seem to fit either.

My opinion fwiw, on this forum people are constantly looking to build a formation around the needs of everyone but Martin, ignoring the fact that the fella up front is the smartest, most reliable centre forward we've seen since the 80's, get them forwards/midfielders closer to him and you'll get the best of him, and them.

[Rampage]

True of all but the best strikers, I think, reveldevil.

That son of a reveldevil may be smarter than his dad. If so, take all the credit for it, Rev. El Devil. 

[YorkshireRam]

I remember him having a cracking game against Norwich last season when we drew 2-2 at home, his assist for the first goal was sublime.

In this league, games against the top teams tend to be close affairs, often being seperated by one goal, whether Martin scores that goal or not is immaterial, as has often been said, judge a striker on their overall impact on the team, not just goals scored. Would love to see the assist stats that go with the scoring stats you mentioned because I can't remember many poor performances from him last season as he was mostly absent during our poor run of form.

[Rev]

1 minute ago, YorkshireRam said:

I remember him having a cracking game against Norwich last season when we drew 2-2 at home, his assist for the first goal was sublime.

In this league, games against the top teams tend to be close affairs, often being seperated by one goal, whether Martin scores that goal or not is immaterial, as has often been said, judge a striker on their overall impact on the team, not just goals scored. Would love to see the assist stats that go with the scoring stats you mentioned because I can't remember many poor performances from him last season as he was mostly absent during our poor run of form.

There's only so much digging I'm prepared to do!

Also worth mentioning that by their nature, bottom 8 sides are going to give you more chances than top 8.

[Rampage]

1 minute ago, reveldevil said:

There's only so much digging I'm prepared to do!

Also worth mentioning that by their nature, bottom 8 sides are going to give you more chances than top 8.

Excellent piece of work, reveldevil.

[CapeTownRams]

Thing is, he's also becoming one of the laziest. I wanted to see him running himself into the ground at Boro..but no.

in truth , whilst not in anyway fat, he could still do with losing a couple of pounds around the middle...maybe that's part of it.

His body language and mannerisms don't help the team either...even more when captain. Too many complaints, shake of the head, waving of a dismissive arm at teammates...

Good player, no doubt, but I believe he could do with a bit of a kick up the backside. Would love to see someone brought in who really gave him competition for his place within the system we play at present.

[Uptherams]

On laziness. I would be shocked if there is a pair of strikers in this league that cover less ground than Martin and Bent combined. Obviously there will be just a hyperbole. But surely the coaches have stats on this, are fully aware and hopefully have a plan to address this. I would like to see a game or two where Martin runs himself to the ground. So much so that he has to be subbed off by 75 minutes. I am concerned that he has a mindset that he must play all 90 minutes of a match and then also be able to start and play the next game and play all 90 and on and on. So every game effectively puts less effort in per minute for this reason. 

[Srg]

6 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

On laziness. I would be shocked if there is a pair of strikers in this league that cover less ground than Martin and Bent combined. Obviously there will be just a hyperbole. But surely the coaches have stats on this, are fully aware and hopefully have a plan to address this. I would like to see a game or two where Martin runs himself to the ground. So much so that he has to be subbed off by 75 minutes. I am concerned that he has a mindset that he must play all 90 minutes of a match and then also be able to start and play the next game and play all 90 and on and on. So every game effectively puts less effort in per minute for this reason. 

Kenwyne Jones

[Alph]

plays best when you get players near him. we don't do that as much. 

Dont think his fitness or attitude is any different from the last 2 seasons. A goal or 2 would boost his enthusiasm but he needs movement in, around and beyond him to work himself a yard or two of space. 

[Yani P]

The laziest striker I have ever seen is Kuqi...

I was dragged to a festive game at Southampton years ago with a mate who is a mad palace fan..

I think the manager at palace was Taylor then - in the warm-ups everytime Taylor turned his back Kuqi would lie down and stop exercising..it was hilarious..

 

The ultimate was in the 2nd half Palace headed a corner clear and Kuqi gathered it with an open pitch to run into with no cover..you could just see in his mind he was never going to run so just hoofed it upfield to no one

 

 

 

[Alph]

Kuqi was class for us though. Made Green, Cywka, Bueno and Commons better players. Well, he let them do what they do but in the final third instead of the middle of the pitch which is what they had to do when that donkey Luke Moore left them doing. 

Loved him here. Bet he only scored a couple though?

[CornwallRam]

I honestly don't think that Chris Martin is doing anything different to what he has done for the last two and a half seasons. What has changed is the other players and the tactics. Our side used to have such fluidity and movement, having a fairly static centre forward for everything to pivot around was perfect. When you had Ibe, Ward and Russell attacking at pace outside him, Bryson and/or Hendrick getting close to him and running past him, with Christie and Forsyth providing pace and width on the flanks and even Will Hughes dancing into the box occasionally, having Martin doing a reasonable impression of an immovable wall was perfect. 

Ince is less direct, Warnock just can't cover the ground like Fozzy, Johnson plays much further back than Bryson and Butterfield tends to shoot from distance, rather than use quick feet to interchange with Martin in the way that Hughes did. Even Hendrick and Christie are more restrained than last season. That has made is far more solid at the back, and the net effect is that we're ahead of where we were last season. However, our style of play is no longer a perfect fit for Chris Martin. 

[PistoldPete2]

We aren't playing the fast passing game with hughes and Bryson which means martin isn't so effective. 

[Mostyn6]

calling Martin lazy is just pure ignorance. The best strikers conserve their movement and energy! Who wants a Connor Sammon running around cluelessly all game? Only a muppet, that's who!

[Dimmu]

You could say lot about Kuqi's footballing ability or even personality, but lazy? Trainerholic I'd say.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said:

calling Martin lazy is just pure ignorance. The best strikers conserve their movement and energy! Who wants a Connor Sammon running around cluelessly all game? Only a muppet, that's who!

Sammon, now there's a bloke who gives plenty of movement. 

Nowt else. But he gets about. He's a lot like that Kim Kardashian bird 

[Tombo]

You have to remember that the main reason that Martin scores less against top teams is because they are harder to score against. As a team we score less against those teams because they're good teams.

Occam's Razor - The most obvious explanation for Martin scoring less against top 8 teams is because those teams are quite obviously and provably better.

[eddie]

Firebrands and pitchforks on standby.

Anyone else needs assassinating in the current Derby side?

A couple of weeks ago it was Ince and Weimann, all season it's been Hendrick, after Leeds it was Grant, today it's now Martin, Johnson and Thorne - and there's still 101 minutes to go until midnight.

 

[Rev]

I'm not assassinating anyone, just giving the stats, giving my reasons why they're misleading, pointing out, before @Tombo, it's easier to score against the bottom 8 than the top 8,and asking should we mould our team more to our best striker for 20 odd years than the needs of others in the squad.

Debate never hurt anyone though!

[RamNut]

Thorne?