Shang Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Admittedly Chris Martin has been pretty bad at hold-up play in the last few games, but we've been up against difficult teams. Derby at the moment play with a lot of players behind the ball which has resulted in our fantastic defensive record. We need an in-form Martin to hold up play for the midfield to catch and move into the final third. This hasn't happened too well recently, and he is dropping in deep, but with inside forwards with pace and who like to see themselves as central players, they also need to do better (Ince, Russell and Weimann). The whole front line need to improve, not just Chris Martin. We need to make more use of our possession and be more incisive. I actually think we're missing George Thorne's incisive defence splitting passes to Martins feet. When have we seen him do this, this season? I believe Clement is keeping him shackled a bit and is more interested in retaining possession than taking riskier chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Its interesting what you say Shang, i was listening to talk sport and they had Frank McClintock on this morning, he was saying how this style of play which was developed in Spain has gone too far, and that teams without the players like Messi etc cant exploit it efficiently and end up with 40 passes in the first two thirds of the pitch but dont penetrate the oppositions defense, and its boring! I can see his point. Teams who know that you are that type of team sit back and let you do just that, then break on you, we've seen it happen against us.... I'm no PC, but we need to find an alternative style to adopt against those types of team if poss, i think thats why we're being linked with wingers because PC realises that and is looking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 8 hours ago, Bridgford Ram said: Could the (excellent) stats in the initial post be put alongside how many goals Derby have scored against each of those bands? If Martin scores 20% of his goals against a certain band but the whole team score 10% it puts it into perspective. Ok, only done the 2 completed seasons, of which Chris missed a large chunk of the 2nd one. Season 13-14 Top 8 Team average 14% - Martin 15% Mid 8 Team average 37% - Martin 25% Bottom 8 Team average 49% - Martin 60% Season 14-15 Top 8 Team average 23% - Martin 28% Mid 8 Team average 38% - Martin 11% Bottom 8 Team average - 39% - Martin 61% Over the 2 seasons, Derby scored 15% of their goals against the relegated teams, compared to Martins 21%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 23 hours ago, Alpha said: Sammon, now there's a bloke who gives plenty of movement. Nowt else. But he gets about. He's a lot like that Kim Kardashian bird He ain't got an ass the size of an African rainforest tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 3 hours ago, nfb said: Its interesting what you say Shang, i was listening to talk sport and they had Frank McClintock on this morning, he was saying how this style of play which was developed in Spain has gone too far, and that teams without the players like Messi etc cant exploit it efficiently and end up with 40 passes in the first two thirds of the pitch but dont penetrate the oppositions defense, and its boring! I can see his point. Teams who know that you are that type of team sit back and let you do just that, then break on you, we've seen it happen against us.... I'm no PC, but we need to find an alternative style to adopt against those types of team if poss, i think thats why we're being linked with wingers because PC realises that and is looking.... Interesting analysis that. If PC sees the issues then how much can be fixed through coaching rather than discarding the current players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 On 04/01/2016 at 21:21, HantsRam said: Interesting analysis that. If PC sees the issues then how much can be fixed through coaching rather than discarding the current players? I should think it all could be fixed, as thats a critique not so much about the players as the style of play, i personally hope PC is savy enough to decide on style/tactics depending on opponents. If not, we need a new man in charge, but i think he is, he's growing into his manager hat, lets remember its a new hat and he seems like a smart cookie .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 4 hours ago, nfb said: I should think it all could be fixed, as thats a critique not so much about the players as the style of play, i personally hope PC is savy enough to decide on style/tactics depending on opponents. If not, we need a new man in charge, but i think he is, he's growing into his manager hat, lets remember its a new hat and he seems like a smart cookie .... I don't think it's unreasonable to expect quite a bit from the small army of analysts we now have. Surely they should be recommending tactical tweaks to PC to counter situations. In fact in all the posts about the Boro match I haven't seen anyone indicate that we tried anything tactically different to neutralise their main threats. So what are all these analysts up to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shang Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 1 hour ago, HantsRam said: I don't think it's unreasonable to expect quite a bit from the small army of analysts we now have. Surely they should be recommending tactical tweaks to PC to counter situations. In fact in all the posts about the Boro match I haven't seen anyone indicate that we tried anything tactically different to neutralise their main threats. So what are all these analysts up to? I don't think identifying the problems is an issue. However if you haven't got the right tools (players) to be able to play in a way to fix the problem, then he would avoid it altogether. I believe Clement plays by risk, if he doesn't think a player is going to beat another player in a flat out race, he will tell them not to try it in the effort to keep the ball and cycle it to the other side of the pitch. He won't risk George Thorne potentially losing a ball in an ambitious pass, if there are too many players high up the pitch in case they break. Ideally we should rely on our defence to soak up pressure in case they break, and try something ambitious every now and again. Camara seems a bit of a "wild card" who can inject a bit of surprise to our traditionally structured game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 37 minutes ago, Shang said: I don't think identifying the problems is an issue. However if you haven't got the right tools (players) to be able to play in a way to fix the problem, then he would avoid it altogether. I believe Clement plays by risk, if he doesn't think a player is going to beat another player in a flat out race, he will tell them not to try it in the effort to keep the ball and cycle it to the other side of the pitch. He won't risk George Thorne potentially losing a ball in an ambitious pass, if there are too many players high up the pitch in case they break. Ideally we should rely on our defence to soak up pressure in case they break, and try something ambitious every now and again. Camara seems a bit of a "wild card" who can inject a bit of surprise to our traditionally structured game. Yes I see what you mean and Clements demeanour suggests he's very thorough and quite analytical. Which makes his use of Weimann a bit more baffling and his explanation at odds with his general approach. Of course PC doesn't have to explain himself to us hence we are left with our own speculation. ☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 4 hours ago, HantsRam said: I don't think it's unreasonable to expect quite a bit from the small army of analysts we now have. Surely they should be recommending tactical tweaks to PC to counter situations. In fact in all the posts about the Boro match I haven't seen anyone indicate that we tried anything tactically different to neutralise their main threats. So what are all these analysts up to? Clement made the substitution of Weimann for Butterfield to try to win the game, and it came unstuck in the last 10 minutes. We had drawn Middlesbrough's sting and would quite possibly have played out a 0-0 without the change, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. Basically it was gambling 1 to win 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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