Newcastle United 2015-16 season

[Day]

2 minutes ago, King Kevin said:

Would agree with this IF he had done it the right way. I have had dozen's of jobs and I am proud of the fact that every employer has let me work my notice because they know I would do the right thing for the firm still paying my salary .

No one can be sure but it looks like that was not the case with SM when you look at our collapse at the end of the season .

What would have been the right way?

He turned them down in January, didn't want to talk as he wanted to finish the season with Derby. 

When asked about the job he kept reiterating that his focus was on Derby, that's all he was thinking about.

Should he have lied and said I'm not interested in the Newcastle job? Then at the end of the season leave anyway?

Or should he have come out and said yes I want the Newcastle job but not until the end of the season?

Both would have been the wrong move. He played it right, unfortunately the fans and media wouldn't let it go and continued to force him into a corner. 

Let's not forget he didn't quit at the end of the season, would have been easy to say look Derby I want out, but no we sacked him despite him saying he wanted to continue and get Derby promoted.

Could it not be McClaren wanted Derby to go up, stayed thinking he could do that then say look, I've got you here but I'm not the right man now for this job. After he failed due to the injury crisis still wanted to stay to get that promotion?

Only McClaren knows. I find it difficult to bash the bloke without knowing what he was really thinking and what went on behind closed doors. 

[Day]

4 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

He's not the man to turn around a bad side. In good times, yeah, no one better, but he never turned around a club going the wrong way.

Was it good times at Derby before McClaren arrived? Negative football, more and more fans growing frustrated each season and wanted Clough out, gave up on any serious thoughts about promotion.

How was the Ipswich game going before his team talk?

[McRamFan]

Arthur Cox once said that when he had signed a player, he would be looking for their replacement.

The company I work for are pretty decent and I get a good salary for what I do, however if I got an chance to move to a role where I got better pay and conditions and the role was challenging me in a good way, I would take it.

[RadioactiveWaste]

8 minutes ago, Daveo said:

Was it good times at Derby before McClaren arrived? Negative football, more and more fans growing frustrated each season and wanted Clough out, gave up on any serious thoughts about promotion.

How was the Ipswich game going before his team talk?

Yeah, we were in a good place (overall) when McClaren came in. Nigel had done most of the hard work in getting us through the Davies/Jewell hangover, the squad had a good amount of good championship players, Nigel's target that season was top six, the club was together, Sam Rush had come in, the owners were stable, the finances were recovering. We were emerging from the dark days anyway, if Nigel had stayed (or we'd got in someone else) we've have had an OK season, perhaps not have made top 6 but improved on 10th. The team spirit that Clough had built was also evident in abundance throughout McClaren's first season rather than having been instilled by McClaren himself (in my opinion).

I will concede that our start was disappointing before McClaren came in, and I don't think Nigel going was knee jerk to the Forest defeat, if anything it was the previous game v Reading where we looked pretty toothless that might have started making up some minds but in terms of the bigger picture the winter was fading.

The Ipswich game was symptomatic of chaos after the long term leadership departed and no one knowing what to do and one, must have been very good, speech.  But that was a one off match. A remarkable one, but only one.

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

58 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Arthur Cox once said that when he had signed a player, he would be looking for their replacement.

The company I work for are pretty decent and I get a good salary for what I do, however if I got an chance to move to a role where I got better pay and conditions and the role was challenging me in a good way, I would take it.

I wonder, however, if McClaren actually considered the working conditions at Newcastle.

[AndyinLiverpool]

1 hour ago, Daveo said:

Was it good times at Derby before McClaren arrived? Negative football, more and more fans growing frustrated each season and wanted Clough out, gave up on any serious thoughts about promotion.

How was the Ipswich game going before his team talk?

Considering the large number of people even on this forum that got seriously mardy when Clough was sacked, things must have been quite good.

[Day]

29 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Considering the large number of people even on this forum that got seriously mardy when Clough was sacked, things must have been quite good.

It was pretty much a 50/50 split wasn't it on here? At the games attendances were falling each season, we were barely taking any away apart from the key fixtures. 

Online we had Yanks out, no ambition, non league Nigel, negative nige. Certainly wasn't good times at all.

The timing was an issue for a lot I seem to remember, wasn't happy with the way he was treated given the fixture and the family connections.

I can get on board with that even tho I was in the Clough out camp I didn't want to see him sacked, no bad feelings left behind. Just at the end of the season sorry, this is as far as I can take this club, time for fresh ideas.

 

[Dimmu]

There's one thing I find bit strange in McClaren. He said he had worked with wrong people (pointing to notts forest) and would never do such mistake again.

I'm pretty sure most of us didn't know that Ashley is terrific owner.

[TigerTedd]

I have no particular hard feelings towards mcclaren, but for some reason I really don't like Newcastle. If I take any particular glee in this it's because it's happening, not that it's happening to mcclaren. 

The only thing is that mcclaren hasn't earn enough loyalty from me for that fact thatched the manager of Newcastle to change my opinion. For example, if clough was manager of Newcastle, I might feel a bit bad for him personally, and not have quite so much fun watching the demise of Newcastle. But mcclaren being their manager doesn't doesn't change my opinion at all.

It's a car crash, but, you know, one of those hilarious car crashes. 

[Tombo]

Edit: Sod it, keeping my gob shut...

[McRamFan]

3 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I wonder, however, if McClaren actually considered the working conditions at Newcastle.

Its a job he dreamed of doing and he was probably blinded by that desire.

[AndyinLiverpool]

7 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Its a job he dreamed of doing and he was probably blinded by that desire.

Serves him right for not researching the company before the interview and for not asking the right questions at the interview.

[StockholmRam]

3 hours ago, Daveo said:

It was pretty much a 50/50 split wasn't it on here? At the games attendances were falling each season, we were barely taking any away apart from the key fixtures. 

Online we had Yanks out, no ambition, non league Nigel, negative nige. Certainly wasn't good times at all.

The timing was an issue for a lot I seem to remember, wasn't happy with the way he was treated given the fixture and the family connections.

I can get on board with that even tho I was in the Clough out camp I didn't want to see him sacked, no bad feelings left behind. Just at the end of the season sorry, this is as far as I can take this club, time for fresh ideas.

 

Ahhhh " Yanks out..."!! Lol. Now them were the days!! Worthy of a " with hindsight and perspective" thread all of its own. 

 

[Mags11]

I have read these posts with interest.  So I figure I should answer a couple of questions.

Yes Newcastle hounded out Pardew.  As with all clubs he has managed he had a great season using someone elses players and tactics.  Then once he has finished brainwashing his players his teams struggle.  Newcastle averaged 1 shot on target per half at Newcastle.  His football was dire.  He continually played players out of position and dropped anyone who showed even the remotest bit of flair or technique because 'they don't track back enough'.

 

Newcastle had played half a season and were ninth.  This was accomplished despite his tactics not because of him.

But, at the same time he wasn't absolutely terrible.  It was just boring to watch, every freekick and corner up to the centre half.  Which probably explains why Newcastle hadn't scored from a corner in 2 years.

 

We couldn't defend against them either.  In fact the biggest rumour around Newcastle was that they didn't even bother practicing them.

 

So then he left and most fans were looking forward to someone who could actually play our players to their strengths.  Instead we gave the job to a guy who had coached our dire 'footy' and didn't know how to coach a corner offensively or defensively.  Unsurprisingly we couldn't buy a win under him.  Remember, we were ninth with half a season gone and under him just stayed up.

 

So we bought the likes of the Dutch player of the season and title winning captain and gave Steve the job.  We got a top up and coming coach from Valencia in Cathro and a 'positivity' guru who has a huge success ratio with sportsmen in Steve black.  Then we gave Round a job to help bring Mcclaren's footy philosophies to the players.

 

We were all willing to give him a chance.  We were looking forward to watching his footy.  So he came in and basically ignored his own eyes.  He read Pardews and Carvers dossiers on the players and used their formations and tactics.

He decided to not play perez, to play 4-2-3-1 and to give Collo not only a new contract but to keep him as captain.  This is a guy who every 6 months tells us how he wants to move away and never ever utters a word on the pitch.  His legs have also been gone for 2 years.

 

So Mcclaren basically got us playing under exactly the same system and with the same tactics Carver used.  That would work wouldn't it?

 

It took him half a dozen games to work out it wouldn't.  It took him 12 games to work out how much of a liability Collo is and yet still plays him.

 

We are still waiting for 433!

 

It is one thing falling on your own sword but cmon, to fall on another persons tactics and formation who was proven to be clueless is just so ridiculous its unbelievable.

 

Mcclaren wont be sacked.  He will have to walk.  Newcastle very rarely sack a manager.

Yes they sacked Sam but most new owners bring in their own men.  Keegan walked because wise was brought in, Joe Kinear had a heart attack but was promised a job when he got better and was given one, Shearer was only given a contract to the end of the season with a promise of a new one if he kept them up which he didnt.

 

Carver was temporary.  Pardew was the second longest serving manager in the premiership and left himself.  Hughton was adored by the fans and is probably the only manager appointed by Ashley et al., you could say was properly sacked.

 

You go to Newcastle you get a job for life.  You can hurl obscenities at other managers, call your fans thick, headbut other players etc and you will still stay.

 

Most managers use the con that they never had time to build their team and get offered job after job.   When Pardew came to Newcastle he said just that.  In fact he said exactly what the likes of Souness had said in the past.

 

He said it takes 3 years to get things exactly the way he wanted them.  

 

When it got to those 3 years he said he needed to do a complete overhaul.

 

If Mcclaren has came looking for a payday then he is in for a shock.  Newcastle would rather see him crack up under the pressure than let him go.

When you go for the Newcastle job they take what you say as gospel.  If you say it will take three years to form a top team they believe you.  They don't understand that it is just something managers say and that is how they get jobs.

 

They hold you to it!

 

 

[bigbadbob]

13 minutes ago, Mags11 said:

I have read these posts with interest.  So I figure I should answer a couple of questions.

Yes Newcastle hounded out Pardew.  As with all clubs he has managed he had a great season using someone elses players and tactics.  Then once he has finished brainwashing his players his teams struggle.  Newcastle averaged 1 shot on target per half at Newcastle.  His football was dire.  He continually played players out of position and dropped anyone who showed even the remotest bit of flair or technique because 'they don't track back enough'.

 

Newcastle had played half a season and were ninth.  This was accomplished despite his tactics not because of him.

But, at the same time he wasn't absolutely terrible.  It was just boring to watch, every freekick and corner up to the centre half.  Which probably explains why Newcastle hadn't scored from a corner in 2 years.

 

We couldn't defend against them either.  In fact the biggest rumour around Newcastle was that they didn't even bother practicing them.

 

So then he left and most fans were looking forward to someone who could actually play our players to their strengths.  Instead we gave the job to a guy who had coached our dire 'footy' and didn't know how to coach a corner offensively or defensively.  Unsurprisingly we couldn't buy a win under him.  Remember, we were ninth with half a season gone and under him just stayed up.

 

So we bought the likes of the Dutch player of the season and title winning captain and gave Steve the job.  We got a top up and coming coach from Valencia in Cathro and a 'positivity' guru who has a huge success ratio with sportsmen in Steve black.  Then we gave Round a job to help bring Mcclaren's footy philosophies to the players.

 

We were all willing to give him a chance.  We were looking forward to watching his footy.  So he came in and basically ignored his own eyes.  He read Pardews and Carvers dossiers on the players and used their formations and tactics.

He decided to not play perez, to play 4-2-3-1 and to give Collo not only a new contract but to keep him as captain.  This is a guy who every 6 months tells us how he wants to move away and never ever utters a word on the pitch.  His legs have also been gone for 2 years.

 

So Mcclaren basically got us playing under exactly the same system and with the same tactics Carver used.  That would work wouldn't it?

 

It took him half a dozen games to work out it wouldn't.  It took him 12 games to work out how much of a liability Collo is and yet still plays him.

 

We are still waiting for 433!

 

It is one thing falling on your own sword but cmon, to fall on another persons tactics and formation who was proven to be clueless is just so ridiculous its unbelievable.

 

Mcclaren wont be sacked.  He will have to walk.  Newcastle very rarely sack a manager.

Yes they sacked Sam but most new owners bring in their own men.  Keegan walked because wise was brought in, Joe Kinear had a heart attack but was promised a job when he got better and was given one, Shearer was only given a contract to the end of the season with a promise of a new one if he kept them up which he didnt.

 

Carver was temporary.  Pardew was the second longest serving manager in the premiership and left himself.  Hughton was adored by the fans and is probably the only manager appointed by Ashley et al., you could say was properly sacked.

 

You go to Newcastle you get a job for life.  You can hurl obscenities at other managers, call your fans thick, headbut other players etc and you will still stay.

 

Most managers use the con that they never had time to build their team and get offered job after job.   When Pardew came to Newcastle he said just that.  In fact he said exactly what the likes of Souness had said in the past.

 

He said it takes 3 years to get things exactly the way he wanted them.  

 

When it got to those 3 years he said he needed to do a complete overhaul.

 

If Mcclaren has came looking for a payday then he is in for a shock.  Newcastle would rather see him crack up under the pressure than let him go.

When you go for the Newcastle job they take what you say as gospel.  If you say it will take three years to form a top team they believe you.  They don't understand that it is just something managers say and that is how they get jobs.

 

They hold you to it!

 

 

So basically you're saying you shouldn't have hounded pardew out !

[Mags11]

No.  Pardew was a poor to mediocre manager whose idea of football is bad for the game.  Yes he always has a good first season using someone elses ideas but thats all it lasts.  Its the same at every club he has ever managed and there have been lots.

What we should have done was employed a top manager who could improve on the ninth place we were at and then spent the 50 million plus in the summer like we did with Mcclaren.  Not to mention the 50 million we will no doubt also spend in the january window.

 

The problem with Charnley is that IMO he is a xenophobic fool.  His manager has to be English and has to be out of contract.

 

He thinks nothing of spending 13 million on a slow hot headed striker or 14 million a winger who has less ability than the one he gave away but shops in the flea  market when it comes to employing the guy to gel them together.

I am also saying that we are forced to hound out the incompetent guys he employs because he will never ever sack them.

 

[Mags11]

Look at the Palace game for instance.  Pardew only knows two ways of playing.  It is either creating through the wings or in different games creating through one guy in the centre.

 

At Newcastle that guy was cabeye so all you had to do to beat us was put two men on cabeye.

When he did change things around he would use the wingers as the sole outlet for creativity so all you had to do to beat us was to double up on the wingers.

 

We would never have more than one shot each half so if you did that you would win.

 

Palace were the same.  They struggled for goals in the games prior to us and created very little.  At Palace he uses Cabeye as a DM and uses his wingers for creativity so all you had to do as an opposition manager was double up on his wingers.

 

Instead Mcclaren decided to give them free reign.  Thats what happens when you shop in the flea market.

[Monkeytennis12345]

9 minutes ago, Mags11 said:

No.  Pardew was a poor to mediocre manager whose idea of football is bad for the game.  Yes he always has a good first season using someone elses ideas but thats all it lasts.  Its the same at every club he has ever managed and there have been lots.

What we should have done was employed a top manager who could improve on the ninth place we were at and then spent the 50 million plus in the summer like we did with Mcclaren.  Not to mention the 50 million we will no doubt also spend in the january window.

For me , the major problem at Newcastle is your player recruitment policy .

The European way isn't working . No passion for the club and no understanding of how the English game works . 

Nothing wrong with buying quality foreign imports , but tell me you'd be happier with a couple of youngsters from Byker or Gateshead in the ranks? 

[ValeRam]

6 hours ago, Daveo said:

Paul Clement will have ambitions far above Derby and one day he will leave, possibly for a bigger club, could be a lower one.

We will be a stepping stone in Clements long career, forget what Mel said about him becoming our Ferguson, it won't ever happen. 

I don't blame McClaren for wanting the Newcastle job, I don't blame him for taking it. Despite the situation the club is in, anyone without an emotional attachment to Derby would understand why he would want it and take it.

We're not this huge club that managers will look at and think Derby County is the end goal, if I get the Derby job that's it, I've made it.

McClaren owed us nothing, he was still finding jobs, we didn't rescue him from the dole queue and when he leaves Newcastle there will be a number of clubs ready to offer him the job.

Great coach, best football along with Jim Smiths team I've ever seen at Derby, came in and transformed a mid table also ran team minutes from the Premier League with the majority of the same squad. I love the bloke and I hope he turns it around so he can stick the middle finger up. 

Sadly the problems at Newcastle run deep, it's a club where they need a mass clear out and a manager given time to rebuild. Newcastle is a huge club, far bigger than Derby and right now they have a squad of can't be arsed players and angry fans. January will be important for them, time to get rid of this foreigners and bring in players that want to play for the club.

Cant agree with most of this 

In effect we did rescue him from the dole queue. His reputation in the Uk and abroad was in absolute tatters before he came here. He was working part-time at QPR as one of a dozen coaches at the club. Even now, Forest fans are apoplectic about what he did to their club after they gave him the chance to rebuild his career in the UK. Prior to that he didn't last 6 months at either of his previous clubs on the continent.   By working at Derby he was beginning to put that in the past. And just listen to all the media punters when they talk about him now - he again has become a sad laughing stock.

Anyone, with any sort of integrity, would never have entertained pursuing another job when, for the previous 12 -18 months, they had exhorted all other possible stakeholders (Owners ("back me in the transfer market"), Fans ("fork out early for new season tickets to the promised land"), Players ("commit your careers for the next 3/4 years to me by signing up" ) to buy into the dream. By all means look to better yourself when you have achieved something and have left a legacy, no problem with that, but you can't seriously retain any credibility whatsoever when you are apparently leading an organisation from the front and encouraging everyone else to do their utmost, when behind the scenes you are pursuing another agenda.

"Great coach" ??? He's won four league games in his last 27 as a club manager. Last  home game for Rams against lower division opposition, who had not won in 10 matches, with only a point needed to get into the play-offs and ending up losing 3 nil, the worst home performance in five  years ! !! Where does all this "great coach" stuff come from ?

Presumably Mel and Sam were being incredibly harsh and short-sighted when they decided enough was enough ?

[Kernow]

57 minutes ago, Mags11 said:

His football was dire.  He continually played players out of position and dropped anyone who showed even the remotest bit of flair or technique because 'they don't track back enough'.

There's your problem then. You didn't have Pardew in charge, you had Cloughie Jr. in disguise!