Wayne Rooney

[Day]

But that's the thing, he said this: 

Surely it's fair to say that the last time he got the chance to prove himself was at the World Cup, where he did by scoring against a top ten side? Not his fault we were ***** and couldn't win a game.

My thoughts exactly but apparently not.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Okay, I've looked at this, just to humour you.

Neymar has not scored a proper competitive goal against a top 13 side. He has scored against Argentina on two occasions in something called "Copa Leoz", not sure what that is, and he has scored once against Spain in the Confederations Cup. His other five goals against the top 13 were in friendlies. But competitively, ZERO.

Cristiano Ronaldo has scored 5  competitive goals against the top 13. Three of these have been at tournaments against Holland (in two games), and the other two against Belgium in Qualifiers. He has also scored once against both Argentina and Holland in friendlies. Competitively, THREE.

Messi has scored 4 competitive goals against a top 13 side, ALL have been in WC Qualifiers (not in tournaments), 2 each versus Columbia and Chile over four games. He also has scored against Spain (in two games) Brazil (in two games, one hattrick), Portugal and Germany (8 goals total) in friendlies. Competitively, FOUR.

Rooney has scored no competitive goals against any of the top 13, but has scored four friendly goals against Argentina, Holland, and in two games Vs Brazil.

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However, if you was being more realistic, and expanded to the top 32 teams, which is possibly more fair as the grouping/fixtures would make it more likely to face opponents in the top 32 than the top 12! It throws up interesting stats.

 

Looking at that lot, it would seem that bagging a goal against France, Germany or Brazil is something of a holy grail amongst world class forwards. Surely somebody must do it.

[Day]

You don't need forwards when you have John O'Shea scoring against Germany, world class defender.

[Sexydadbod]

Who are the world class forwards better than Rooney?

I've still only seen Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Aguero, Zlatan and Ronaldo named. 

Despite playing as deep forward and having much more about his game than goals he's still scored over 300 times for club and country. That's more than Aguero. 

I saw Inzaghi mentioned. Now I loved that guy but he offered less than Rooney in general play. I can't accept that he offered more. When it comes to goals? Well Rooney will beat Inzaghi before he's done because he's only about 13 behind

Kluivert? Beaten him already

This isn't bad coming from a lad that does a whole lot more than poach and isn't world class. Add to that his medals. 

They say international football is the biggest stage but that's rubbish. Will you ever get a world cup final with Neymar, Suarez, Messi, Iniesta, Modric, Ronaldo, Ramos... etc etc on the pitch at the same time? 

The Champions League is the biggest stage. You're going to face the most expensively assembled dream teams. He's won that too. 

He's proven himself over and over. Top England goal scorer of all time but people still ask why he can't do it for England. Take away him and see what you're left with. THAT is why he can't do it for England. Between dodgy managers and overrated ***** the England team have been toss. 

Even now they've got Roy Hodgson. Not that he's done a bad job at all. A good one actually. But hardly on the big guns shortlists is he? 

Neymar,Messi,Ronaldo,Suarez,Benzema,Zlatan,Cavani,Aguero,Diego Costa,Lewandowski, Muller,Hazard,Sanchez, Tevez, Jackson Martinez, Higuain, Griezmann,Aubameyang are all better than Rooney. Was Rooney a world class player? Yes he was without a doubt. That Tevez,Ronaldo and Rooney partnership for Man Utd was fantastic and Rooney's work ethic got the best out of both of the former. Is Rooney world class at the moment? Absolutely not as those players listed above are better than Rooney without a doubt in my eyes. It's not a bad thing that Rooney isn't world class but the sooner we realise that we don't have any world class players, the sooner we can aim to rectify this.

[Sexydadbod]

I, like a lot of fans, can recognise the achievement of being the country's top scorer of all time while at the same time not liking the man.

As far as World class goes, of course it depends entirely on your definition of World Class:

One of the best in the world in his position = Yes

Good enough to be in the world's best 11 = No.

He isn't one of the best in his position anymore though. He used to be but not anymore

[Sexydadbod]

Can I just point out that almost no one has claimed Rooney is crap or even that he isn't a great footballer. I don't understand why you're all freaking out and treating it like high treason that some people aren't keen on ascribing to him the wholly arbitrary title of "world class".

Exactly. In my eyes he used to be world class but not anymore. I can easily name you 20 better footballers in the world. Doesn't mean that Rooney is a bad player.

[Sexydadbod]

Can I point out that Rooney hasn't scored over 20 goals in a season since 2012

[Uptherams]

Somebody mentioned Neymar, a player with 31 goals in Friendlies, who has only scored against Cameroon and Croatia in the World Cup.. http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/neymar-intlg.html

 

 

Plus the two he scored against the USA last night. That is a list full of good teams. He has scored 46 in 67 now. He is only 23 remember. Only been to one world cup so far. He went off injured in the quarter final and didn't play again. People readily forget players who have played since Rooney arrived on the scene. Players who have won international competitions. Players who have come close. Players who have scored in more than one domestic league. 

World class to me is defined by a career within a generation. I certainly wouldn't compile a list of 20+ forwards in a generation and call them world class. 

There are many players we have yet to call world class that are as good as Rooney. Muller and Aguero. Players who are 5 and 3 years younger. Another in Lewandowski who is 3 years younger. 

If I was to create a team from over the last 12 years to play in an international tournament, Wayne Rooney would not make the list of forwards until at least 30 in. 

[Day]

If I was to create a team from over the last 12 years to play in an international tournament, Wayne Rooney would not make the list of forwards until at least 30 in. 

Maybe not for you but 2011 he did alright, finished 4th in the Ballon d'Or voting and was named in the FIFPro XI alongside Messi and Ronaldo.

Finished 2nd in the FIFA Puskas award for the "judged to have scored the most aesthetically significant, or "most beautiful", goal of the year"...Messi finished 3rd.

 

[RLACML]

He's not world class but it's nothing to do with his international record.

[Day]

He's not world class but it's nothing to do with his international record.

He had the granny you had your eye on and still bitter about it?

[Uptherams]

Maybe not for you but 2011 he did alright, finished 4th in the Ballon d'Or voting and was named in the FIFPro XI alongside Messi and Ronaldo.

Finished 2nd in the FIFA Puskas award for the "judged to have scored the most aesthetically significant, or "most beautiful", goal of the year"...Messi finished 3rd.

 

One or two seasons does not make a player world class in the context of a generation. Compare Ryan Giggs to Rooney. Does his record for Man U make him world class? Would you consider Frank Lampard to be world class? 

[RLACML]

He had the granny you had your eye on and still bitter about it?

Well, there's that too. What sort of a world class footballer sleeps with a 48 year old granny?

[Uptherams]

Harry Kane yet to score this season for Spurs. Plays for England and scores 2 goals in 64 minutes. Scored his first 1 in 28 minutes against Lithuania. Only failed to score so far when he started and played the whole game against Italy. He will continue to score goals in England qualifiers. Because the quality of opposition is low. 

[Cam the Ram]

Rooney could still probably be a starter for 99% of the teams in the world. Yes there's probably 40 or 50 players better than him (at least), but I didn't realise there was suddenly a cap on how many players can be branded world class

[Day]

Well, there's that too. What sort of a world class footballer sleeps with a 48 year old granny?

One that prefers the mature lady that knows what she's doing or he had a bucket list drawn up by mates

[RLACML]

One that prefers the mature lady that knows what she's doing or he had a bucket list drawn up by mates

Which one was it for you then?

[Day]

Which one was it for you then?

I was pissed and she was only 42

[MuespachRam]

Read all these comments....wow, can we not just step back and say, he is the greatest ever goal scorer for England ever and congratulate him. 

So many people just too ready to believe all the ****** calling in talk sport etc.... 

He has had he weight of the English/world media on his shoulders since he was 16 years old, he has been playing for arguably the biggest club in the world and is only 16 goals away from being their highest ever goal scorer ever too....

all you haters, face facts...he is the greatest English goalscorer ever. 

[eddie]

One or two seasons does not make a player world class in the context of a generation. Compare Ryan Giggs to Rooney. Does his record for Man U make him world class? Would you consider Frank Lampard to be world class? 

There's no comparison.

Ryan Giggs was an international footballing coward who only ever made himself available for selection for Wales in order to get out of washing his girlfriend's dishes.