DEL Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Super Wayne Rooooooooooneyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Who are the world class forwards better than Rooney?I've still only seen Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Aguero, Zlatan and Ronaldo named. Despite playing as deep forward and having much more about his game than goals he's still scored over 300 times for club and country. That's more than Aguero. I saw Inzaghi mentioned. Now I loved that guy but he offered less than Rooney in general play. I can't accept that he offered more. When it comes to goals? Well Rooney will beat Inzaghi before he's done because he's only about 13 behindKluivert? Beaten him alreadyThis isn't bad coming from a lad that does a whole lot more than poach and isn't world class. Add to that his medals. They say international football is the biggest stage but that's rubbish. Will you ever get a world cup final with Neymar, Suarez, Messi, Iniesta, Modric, Ronaldo, Ramos... etc etc on the pitch at the same time? The Champions League is the biggest stage. You're going to face the most expensively assembled dream teams. He's won that too. He's proven himself over and over. Top England goal scorer of all time but people still ask why he can't do it for England. Take away him and see what you're left with. THAT is why he can't do it for England. Between dodgy managers and overrated ***** the England team have been toss. Even now they've got Roy Hodgson. Not that he's done a bad job at all. A good one actually. But hardly on the big guns shortlists is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 How many goals has Rooney scored in competitive games against the FIFA ranked top 13 sides in the world?The answer = 0You have to go to the 14 ranked team, Croatia to find the highest ranked side he has managed to score against.I congratulate Rooney for breaking this record but why do we have to have a 'World Class' debate just because of this achievement. England and Rooney have a habit of not turning up against the very best opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 One major flaw in that is you're looking at who Rooney scored has scored against and using the current FIFA World Rankings, these change all the time. If you want to use the rankings the fair way would be to look at them at the time Rooney scored against them.Top 13 is also such a random number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 One major flaw in that is you're looking at who Rooney scored has scored against and using the current FIFA World Rankings, these change all the time. If you want to use the rankings the fair way would be to look at them at the time Rooney scored against them.Top 13 is also such a random number.A major flaw?I would venture to say that Rooney has failed to score against many, if at all any sides that have featured in FIFA's top 10 from the 13 years that Rooney has been playing in competitive games for England.Top 13 is anything but random. It the top 13 because he actually managed to score a goal against the 14th ranked side, Croatia. If it were random, I would have picked the number out of the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 A major flaw?I would venture to say that Rooney has failed to score against many, if at all any sides that have featured in FIFA's top 10 from the 13 years that Rooney has been playing in competitive games for England.Top 13 is anything but random. It the top 13 because he actually managed to score a goal against the 14th ranked side, Croatia. If it were random, I would have picked the number out of the sky. With you moving the goalposts from top 10 to top 13 September 2009 Croatia were ranked 9th, Rooney scored 2 against them in a World Cup Qualifier.June 2014 Uruguay were ranked 7th, Rooney scored against them in the World CupNow if we go to top 15 you can add a few more goals, and even more if we go to top 20, depends on how you want the stats to suit your argument I guess because we're not counting friendly goals are we? even tho he has scored against Brazil, Argentina, Netherlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 With you moving the goalposts from top 10 to top 13 September 2009 Croatia were ranked 9th, Rooney scored 2 against them in a World Cup Qualifier. June 2014 Uruguay were ranked 7th, Rooney scored against them in the World Cup Now if we go to top 15 you can add a few more goals, and even more if we go to top 20, depends on how you want the stats to suit your argument I guess because we're not counting friendly goals are we? even tho he has scored against Brazil, Argentina, Netherlands. I agree with you Daveo, check this out:- http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/messi-intlg.html Interestingly, Lionel Messi's World Cup (tournament) goals, come against Serbia, Bosnia, Iran and Nigeria. 24 of Messi's 46 international goals have been in friendlies. 14 in WC Qualifiers. None against Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 With you moving the goalposts from top 10 to top 13 September 2009 Croatia were ranked 9th, Rooney scored 2 against them in a World Cup Qualifier.June 2014 Uruguay were ranked 7th, Rooney scored against them in the World CupNow if we go to top 15 you can add a few more goals, and even more if we go to top 20, depends on how you want the stats to suit your argument I guess because we're not counting friendly goals are we? even tho he has scored against Brazil, Argentina, Netherlands. I didn't move any goalposts. My original post was the top 13 because Rooney hasn't scored against any of the sides in the current top 13 of the FIFA rankings. It's you who are changing the goalposts and wanting to include non competitive matches to suit your own argument. I repeat, Rooney has not scored a single competitive goal against any side in the current FIFA top 13 sides. That is my point. You clearly want to disagree with that as it doesn't suit your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Similarly @Daveo, Ronaldo's stats are equally average http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/cronaldo-intlg.html Ronaldo's World Cup goals come against Ghana, Iran and North Korea, and his Euros goals, against better opposition in Czech Rep, Greece and Holland . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 I didn't move any goalposts. My original post was the top 13 because Rooney hasn't scored against any of the sides in the current top 13 of the FIFA rankings. It's you who are changing the goalposts and wanting to include non competitive matches to suit your own argument. I repeat, Rooney has not scored a single competitive goal against any side in the current FIFA top 13 sides. That is my point. You clearly want to disagree with that as it doesn't suit your argument. I don't understand where you are coming from, how is it fair to use current rankings for Rooney's previous goals?He has scored against top 10 countries at the time which is surely more relevant?It's like saying Madonna has had 0 top 10 hits because she's not in the top 10 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 I agree with you Daveo, check this out:- http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/messi-intlg.html Interestingly, Lionel Messi's World Cup (tournament) goals, come against Serbia, Bosnia, Iran and Nigeria. 24 of Messi's 46 international goals have been in friendlies. 14 in WC Qualifiers. None against Argentina. I was going to do this later, see how many top 10 countries at the time he scored against in competitive games. I fear that if it's only one or two more than Rooney penalties will be removed, then assists thrown in. Basically anything to discredit Rooney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I didn't move any goalposts. My original post was the top 13 because Rooney hasn't scored against any of the sides in the current top 13 of the FIFA rankings. It's you who are changing the goalposts and wanting to include non competitive matches to suit your own argument. I repeat, Rooney has not scored a single competitive goal against any side in the current FIFA top 13 sides. That is my point. You clearly want to disagree with that as it doesn't suit your argument. Are you discounting England's world cup win in 1966 because West Germany no longer exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 The majority of his 50 England goals which have taken him 13 years have come against distinctly not world class opposition.He is not the player he was a few years ago and Manchester United are not the team they were.World Class? No, there are only a handful of players that fit into this category and Rooney is not one of them.A world class salary for a class player.There has to be at least 11 world class players at any given time, World class simply means good enough to get into the best team at any given time surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Are you discounting England's world cup win in 1966 because West Germany no longer exist?Has Rooney scored a competitive goal against any of the current top 13 in FIFA's rankings?Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 I don't understand where you are coming from, how is it fair to use current rankings for Rooney's previous goals?He has scored against top 10 countries at the time which is surely more relevant?It's like saying Madonna has had 0 top 10 hits because she's not in the top 10 now. Has Rooney scored a competitive goal against any of the current top 13 in FIFA's rankings?Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 So the only conclusion it is safe to draw, therefore, is that Rooney's international goalscoring exploits do not define him as 'world class'; equally neither do those of Ronaldo and Messi when applying the same arbitrary criteria.Thanks for clearing that up, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Somebody mentioned Neymar, a player with 31 goals in Friendlies, who has only scored against Cameroon and Croatia in the World Cup.. http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/neymar-intlg.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsilks Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 There has to be at least 11 world class players at any given time, World class simply means good enough to get into the best team at any given time surely.Does there?World Class to me means that you are amongst the best few in the world in any given position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Has Rooney scored a competitive goal against any of the current top 13 in FIFA's rankings?Yes or No? Why 13? How many tournaments have only 14 teams in? I don't understand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Does there?World Class to me means that you are amongst the best few in the world in any given position. It is unfair to make comparisons between players unless you use precisely the same criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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