inviting unnecessary pressure on yourself?

[RIMBAUD]

They're always looking for 'talking points'.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

@Leeds Ram , read the thread, I've said on a couple of occasions that I don't think I'm being critical. I'ts not like I've called him names or christened him pisspoorpaul.

@RIMBAUD     Rookie managers can show experience by doing things experienced managers do. Like handing in a team sheet with 11 individual players on it. He's learned from one of the best in Ancelotti, I wonder how many times Carlos handed in a team sheet with the same name on it twice.

I don't think anything more can be said on it, I'm not trying to close my own thread or to avoid answering any more comments/points/questions. but I was fairly clear about, these are my individual issues. I see them as semi important so  I asked about them you lot clearly don't and would prefer to turn it into a Clement v Clough thread which I really don't understand.

If someone has a unique view on it, then fair enough but if all that's going to happen is we go around in circles and people recycle the same way to call me a duckegg. Then what's the point?

Ronnie, I asked you this before but I think in your reply you misunderstood what I meant. How do we know that specific bit of paper went in as our team sheet? Who said it did & who took the photo?

[ronnieronalde]

Not sure but I seem to remember Martin O'Neil quoting the story?

However I don't think it's particularly 'quirky' behaviour from Clement... I personally prefer a manager to be a bit more aloof from the team... they're the boss... Too many former players for me like still being 'one of the lads'...

He decided that he needed a few mins to collect his thoughts... especially since the timing of their goal would have changed the team talk he was going to give... and then (judging by second half performance) gave a good team talk...

I find it odd that the commentators made such a big deal about it personally...

I'm so glad someone has finally pointed that out.

The whole crux of my"argument" 

Football commentators, newspapers, radio hacks, they ALL look to find a controversial angle, whether one exists or not.

That's what I meant by inviting unnecessary pressure.

Now, I might fancy myself a little bit, but I'm not deluded enough to think my views would go national. I raised it on this forum to discuss amongst "friends" (and I use the term loosely)

However I could just imagine what would have been the major talking point on Sky after the game, if for example Toral had finished that chance early in the second half to put them 2-0 up.

Do you think they'd have let it slide? They'd have been full of it, not won a game, depleted squad, can't score a goal.. players needed settling down and he did that...blah blah blah...

 

[ronnieronalde]

Ronnie, I asked you this before but I think in your reply you misunderstood what I meant. How do we know that specific bit of paper went in as our team sheet? Who said it did & who took the photo?

Only Janine Self posted the image TSP. I asked if it went into the ref like that and she said she believed so. But she didn't confirm it 100%.

I then asked both Owen Bradley and Steve Nicholson cos at that stage I was hoping they'd come back and say it was the sheet that went into the directors box but neither responded and that made me suspicious.

So, I'm NOT 100% sure it was Paul.

I'll try to have a look back at the thread, but in my opinion when I posted it I wasn't trying to make all hell break loose, just asking if anyone had seen it or thought it was an issue. I got more defensive about making a real point out of it after being called names for asking.

You'll see from my first post on the game that I was hoping it wasn't the official team sheet, and that was genuine from me.

I didn't want to think that it had gone in like that. I didn't want to be the one who asked the question but I couldn't see anyone else raising it (I'll do that if I see something and no-one else points it out, remember the Steve hugging Yakubu thread?) and like I said a lot already, for me it was an issue and it showed a lack of preparation and a bit of carelessness when I want to see signs of calm and authority.

[cheron85]

That's what I meant by inviting unnecessary pressure.

I think the problem is that your original post suggested that Clement should behave in the exact same way as all other managers... and that by doing something 'unusual' by managerial standards he was inviting the pressure on himself...

He should do whatever he wants and behave the right way for himself... He'll be judged on results not the opinions of some Sky commentators...

[bcnram]

I'm so glad someone has finally pointed that out.

The whole crux of my"argument" 

Football commentators, newspapers, radio hacks, they ALL look to find a controversial angle, whether one exists or not.

That's what I meant by inviting unnecessary pressure.

Now, I might fancy myself a little bit, but I'm not deluded enough to think my views would go national. I raised it on this forum to discuss amongst "friends" (and I use the term loosely)

However I could just imagine what would have been the major talking point on Sky after the game, if for example Toral had finished that chance early in the second half to put them 2-0 up.

Do you think they'd have let it slide? They'd have been full of it, not won a game, depleted squad, can't score a goal.. players needed settling down and he did that...blah blah blah...

 

I would imagine that he had more on his mind than looking over his shoulder to see if someone had a stop watch on him. As far as I am aware he was stood outside the changing room door. It could be that he heard the players discussing what they should do themselves and wanted to let them talk it out. It could be that he was busy getting some information off the performance analyst guy or one of the coaches, It might be that there was some specific information that John Peacock was delivering inside at the time and he didn't want to interrupt. Whatever the reason, I am sure it will have been well thought out because that is the type of person he comes over as. I am also fairly sure that he would not care a damn if he knew that some junior sky runner was going to report back that it was 4 minutes 42 seconds before he entered the changing room. I can report that including the question by the Sky guy (Simon ?) and the answers in full by the two 'experts' took all of 46 seconds so they hardly made a big deal of it either.  Pretty sure that PC is also big into sports psychology as well, maybe just mind games.  

[ronnieronalde]

Wasting 5 minutes and however many seconds by not waking into the dressing room and thus inviting unnecessary pressure on yourself - taking his time to gather his thoughts before conducting a team talk which produced a vastly improved second half display, producing a goal to gain a point

 

easy this spin lark.......

Very easy when you've got a list of two to go at. Two, that's all, two points I've singled out, why don't you quote my overall views on the game and performance against Birmingham and then tell me I've been overly critical?

I maintain, I've not criticised Paul at all, never mind written and recalled a near dossier on where he's gone wrong

All that despite a 0% win rate.

Imagine what it would have been like if this start was made by the guy who's faults you and the footballing mates you're still connected to are able to reel off the tip of your tongues.

 

[ronnieronalde]

I would imagine that he had more on his mind than looking over his shoulder to see if someone had a stop watch on him. As far as I am aware he was stood outside the changing room door. It could be that he heard the players discussing what they should do themselves and wanted to let them talk it out. It could be that he was busy getting some information off the performance analyst guy or one of the coaches, It might be that there was some specific information that John Peacock was delivering inside at the time and he didn't want to interrupt. Whatever the reason, I am sure it will have been well thought out because that is the type of person he comes over as. I am also fairly sure that he would not care a damn if he knew that some junior sky runner was going to report back that it was 4 minutes 42 seconds before he entered the changing room. I can report that including the question by the Sky guy (Simon ?) and the answers in full by the two 'experts' took all of 46 seconds so they hardly made a big deal of it either.  Pretty sure that PC is also big into sports psychology as well, maybe just mind games.  

Can't argue with any of that @bcnram

Wish that had been your first post on the matter, instead of the one where you had a dig which is really not like you at all

[mozza]

You lot still in here ?

[BondJovi]

Do I want to light the fire....

If Clement had said the "Cywka comment" about Grant after the Portsmouth game then I would be concerned...they are the things experienced managers say right?

All this thread is doing is cycling around the same old worn path and ended up in a Clough attack and defend spiral.

I just find the angle of this thread to be one of attack on Clement, intentional or not and the fact that it is not even certain whether it was the teamsheet handed in or even if Clement had anything to do with it just makes it more searching for opportunities. The pundits comments about delaying his arrival in the changing room barely warrant mention, compare it to Mourinho and his substitution of Terry....

I am impressed there can be so much discussion over such insignificant matters. I'm off to talk about the socks.

[Gypsy Ram]

You lot still in here ?

I still haven't got my dig in yet, still in a shocked -in-disbelief state.

[ronnieronalde]

Do I want to light the fire....

If Clement had said the "Cywka comment" about Grant after the Portsmouth game then I would be concerned...they are the things experienced managers say right?

All this thread is doing is cycling around the same old worn path and ended up in a Clough attack and defend spiral.

I just find the angle of this thread to be one of attack on Clement, intentional or not and the fact that it is not even certain whether it was the teamsheet handed in or even if Clement had anything to do with it just makes it more searching for opportunities. The pundits comments about delaying his arrival in the changing room barely warrant mention, compare it to Mourinho and his substitution of Terry....

I am impressed there can be so much discussion over such insignificant matters. I'm off to talk about the socks.

Do you really think my "criticism" of Paul was on the same level as the criticism dished out against Clough, Cywka or non Cywka?

Blimey, for people who think it's a non-issue, you've all certainly had a good go at making it a big issue.

[KBB]

Very easy when you've got a list of two to go at. Two, that's all, two points I've singled out, why don't you quote my overall views on the game and performance against Birmingham and then tell me I've been overly critical?

I maintain, I've not criticised Paul at all, never mind written and recalled a near dossier on where he's gone wrong

All that despite a 0% win rate.

Imagine what it would have been like if this start was made by the guy who's faults you and the footballing mates you're still connected to are able to reel off the tip of your tongues.

Alright mate.

ps. 0% loss rate too.  

[ronnieronalde]

Alright mate.

ps. 0% loss rate too.  

20% loss rate.

But I'm happy to leave it there if you are ;-)

[KBB]

20% loss rate.

But I'm happy to leave it there if you are ;-)

[davenportram]

my summary

 

Ronnie has mentioned two possible things about PC he doesn't like. Its been turned into a NC thread by others who say "you cabt criticise him you never criticised NC. A bit unfair.

 

 

 

In another thread someone criticised a PC decision, instead of telling the poster they aren't allowed to the topic raised was discussed.

 

why the difference?

 

if the issues were as much of a non issue as,some claim why post in the thread? Why not just ignore it as unimportant.

[BondJovi]

Do you really think my "criticism" of Paul was on the same level as the criticism dished out against Clough, Cywka or non Cywka?

Blimey, for people who think it's a non-issue, you've all certainly had a good go at making it a big issue.

No. You are passionate about what is important to you. Let's come back to this in 10 games or so and see if your concerns have grown or faded away like the late summer sun.

[Rev]

No. You are passionate about what is important to you. Let's come back to this in 10 games or so and see if your concerns have grown or faded away like the late summer sun.

A lovely image you've put in my head, Bond Jovi! 

Very poetic, if only we'd had some early summer sun, or indeed mid summer sun!

[Gypsy Ram]

Ronnie was spotted earlier: 

http://www.jeffsextonwrites.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/diggingahole.jpg

[Rev]

Ronnie was spotted earlier: 

http://www.jeffsextonwrites.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/diggingahole.jpg

I can certainly see him wearing that T-Shirt!