Derby County v Middlesbrough

[davenportram]

Do we know for sure it was Clement that wrote the team sheet and not John Peacock or any of the other coaches? seems a strange one to pull him on Ronnie

Doesntt he manager have to sing it?

[Ambitious]

Ince is at least looking for the ball, trying to make thing happen. Most teams see him as our biggest threat so double up or man mark him.

That should free up space for, say a £2.5 million Premiership player to flourish. But whoever stole Weimann and replaced him with a waxwork dummy needs to be caught. Much more of this and I'll be forced to apologise to Mikkel Beck. 

Yeah, I'm not against Ince at all - he's our most talented player. 

My concern is that McClaren easily got Ince to another level and was able to put him in a system that got the best out of him. Clement seems to have put him in a system that has degraded him to a jack russell type player, constantly surrounded by three players as soon as he's touched the ball. 

Ince needs space, therefore Clement needs to incorporate a system that gives Ince space. 

[davenportram]

Yeah, I'm not against Ince at all - he's our most talented player. 

My concern is that McClaren easily got Ince to another level and was able to put him in a system that got the best out of him. Clement seems to have put him in a system that has degraded him to a jack russell type player, constantly surrounded by three players as soon as he's touched the ball. 

Ince needs space, therefore Clement needs to incorporate a system that gives Ince space. 

Or maybe the opposition are surrounding him because hes dangerous and Ince need to find the space himself. Towards the end of last season Ince was crowded by the opposition too and seemed only marginally more effective than he does at the moment.

[Bris Vegas]

I asked a couple of my mates whether it was me being a bit of a dick or whether it would be a concern.. I got a mixed reaction..

You might be right Daveo, I might be being harsh but as I've said since the outset. I'm not confident that Paul has earned his stripes enough to be given such a huge job. The signings, the tactics, the team selections haven't done much to ease those concerns... you know me enough to know I speak my mind and worry about it later.

I really hope I'm made to look like the village idiot @eddie once called me, he's usually right to be fair, I should probably have learned that by now :-)

I never picked up on that line-up.

In regards to not being confident he's earned his stripes. Well, it's a tough one. Any hiring is a risk, regardless of where they come from. A few 'been there and done that' managers have come in and failed elsewhere. 

It's becoming a common theme nowadays for every manager to have done at least one amazing job somewhere and one absolute duffer of a job somewhere else, regardless of who they are.

We must have seen something in Clement to go for him. After all, Aitor Karanka is in his first job and he took over an underachieving team who were for long periods right up there under Tony Mowbray. 

Some managers aren't even that good but stumble across a good team and get them promoted. Roy Keane springs to mind in that one. 

[Ambitious]

I'm not enjoying this new found position of mine as chief antagonist. i think I posted before the game started that the line up was set up to get a point. He went for his most experienced back four and built from there, sacrificing the full backs pushing on.

Now I have two observations/questions.

Managers always talk about blocks of fixtures

If you'd looked at the fixtures and seen Bolton away and then two home games against Charlton and MIddlesbrough, what points target do you think Paul and the board would have set?

5? let's be realistic and not over positive.

If yes then we're two points behind target already, now those points seem tiny, 2 little points that's all, no need to panic.

But two points dropped over 3 games is a margin that I'm not entirely comfortable with. Especially when we keep losing key players and any newcomers now need to hit the ground running like never before.

Second point, I can't believe there's not one person, not one fan who's mentioned the team sheet going in to the ref with Baird on it twice.  I checked whether it was genuine cos I really thought it had to be a wind up.. the answer i got was it's genuine.

Goodness me, I know he's a novice and I know he might be feeling under way too much pressure for a guy who's only had 3 games in charge.

But that's incredibly worrying for me, maybe you'll tell me I'm looking for too many little signs of him not being comfortable.. but oh my, I'd make a terrible chairman because that one little thing would plant such serious doubts in my mind, I'm not sure I could get rid of them...

His main job is to pick a side.... I wonder what reaction that would get if it got out to mainstream media.......please, someone tell me it was a poor joke and I've made myself look like a clown, I'd take that over my manager putting a player on the team sheet twice.

 

 

 

I would say that has to be the biggest overreation to anything ever. 

As Daveo said, I doubt he's even the one writing out the teamsheet - I would be surprised if he didn't have more pressing issues. 

[Alph]

First goals against defensive-minded teams are so important. How often have you seen a defensive-minded team scorfrom pretty much nothing and then just sit on it for the rest of the game?

Boro are very much the Championship's Chelsea in that regard. They won't come up against as many teams as good as Derby from an attacking sense, so you'd imagine they will earn plenty of points through narrow away wins this season.

I haven't seen the game so can't comment. But I won't buy into this 'we completely dominated them, we had all the possession' etc. Because tat's exactly how Boro wanted to play.

If we had scored first, who knows, they would have had to go for it and the game could have ended up 4-4 from rather 1-1. 

We used to dominate teams at home with Nigel Clough in charge. I vividly remember losing at home to Brighton 1-0 one game where they literally scored with their only shot early on and just sat on it for the rest of the game.

I'd like to see how we do when we go 1-0 up. I think Paul Clement's mentality will really come to light then.

 

I agree Bris that Boro were happy for us to have the ball.

But before their goal we had them rattled. You could see the tension in some of the communication between them. Hendrick, who was a donkey, imo was in positions to hurt them. The goal was a real stinger and was undeserved at the time.

Ironically neither team scored when they deserved it. They were the better side after their goal. We the better side before it.

The second half was even. We wouldn't let them have kick and they wouldn't let us have a sniff. And just like them we scored when we deserved it least. It was starting to look like we could play all week and not get a chance. But Boro were playing one of those games where if it works then it's genius. When it doesn't then you get what you deserve.

For a team with great defensive qualities to concede from such a simple direct pass they can't complain. They chose to sit back. 

After jumping in the thread trying to defend Derby I haven't mentioned what I thought the negatives were to give balance.

Chris Martin needed to wear brighter boots and be 8ft tall. People totally rejected his drop into the hole. Nobody played into him. When we did we had our best moments. He was right there with a defender on his heels but when has that ever bothered him. Russell did it too and was blanked. Instead Derby were obsessed with the fullbacks having the ball on the line. Sure it help stretch Boro but after an hour of it Boro were more than happy to go from flank to flank closing the door.

They closed the door so tightly that we had Russell and Ince coming inside to find space and just like Martin were ignored. 

There was nothing majorly worrying about tonight as there was no major positive. 

But the repetition in doing the same pattern over and over again was bizarre when we have become known for playing in to Martin and we didn't trust him even when fast running out of time

[Ambitious]

Or maybe the opposition are surrounding him because hes dangerous and Ince need to find the space himself. Towards the end of last season Ince was crowded by the opposition too and seemed only marginally more effective than he does at the moment.

I'd counter argue that, if I was head coach, I wouldn't want one player going off the game plan because he's struggling to find space. 

I would expect Clement to analyse the last three games and come up with a solution to feed to Ince in order to get the best out of him. Not Ince telling Clement how to get the best out of him. 

I do agree that Ince could go wandering for the ball, but if that means him being out of position in Clement's system then it could impact on other matters. 

In all honesty, in all four games, our whole frontline has looked isolated. I would definitely be pointing the finger at Clement to sort that out. 

[davenportram]

I would say that has to be the biggest overreation to anything ever. 

As Daveo said, I doubt he's even the one writing out the teamsheet - I would be surprised if he didn't have more pressing issues. 

League regulations state

33.5 List of Players to be handed to Referee. The Captain accompanied by the person in charge of his team on the day (i.e. the Manager or Assistant Manager if present) must hand copies of a list of names of Players taking part in the game (including the name of the nominated substitute or substitutes) ('Team Sheet') to the Referee and a representative of the opponents in the presence of the Referee in his dressing room at least 60 (sixty) minutes before the advertised time of kick-off. The Team Sheet shall indicate the full names of Players and shall indicate the colour of the Goalkeeper’s shirt. 
Read more at http://www.football-league.co.uk/global/section5.aspx#hw8Oy74MwSEgteJP.99

so if clement is handing the team sheet aloong with Baird to the referee youd hope that one of themhad read it,
 

[bcnram]

You're not getting it are you. Boro wanted a point and they got the point. Boro always looked in control and looked like they could go up a few gears if they needed to.

In an evening of daft comments, this has to go right to the top of the daft list. They were organised and defended well, no doubt about that, but even the Boro manager said they could not play in the way that they would like because Derby pass the ball well and they could not get the ball for themselves. Maybe they could have gone up a few gears and attacked without the ball 

[Day]

Doesntt he manager have to sing it?

Sing it? Don't think so, although could be an entertaining way to kick off the game, have Clement on the pitch with a microphone, tuxedo Pavarotti style

[Rev]

1 - Did they even touch the ball before they scored?

2- it wasn't a particularly bad performance, just an incredibly infuriating one.

3- Boro didn't look like world beaters. Just an absolute textbook away performance.

4- keogh looks a new man.

5- Weimann is never a wide forward.

6 - Boro's forward pair, is it Kike and that Diego fella, will destroy some teams this season. Both looked very fleet of foot with the ball.

7- we seemed to shy from playing the ball into feet of players with their backs to goal, and instead looked to pass it into our non attack blessed fullbacks.

8 I saw Jack O'Connel chuffing a fag at half time.

9-If I'm ever served Bovril so hot again.....

The likes for point 3.

 

[eddie]

I'm going to single out Warnock for special praise tonight. I thought that he was excellent throughout, and Albert Adomah,  who usually tears us a new one, never got a look-in.

[bcnram]

Doesntt he manager have to sing it?

Even Sky wouldn't insist on that!!!

[RadioactiveWaste]

So we can deduce that Clement really, really wants Baird on the teamsheet?

 

[Anon]

Instead Derby were obsessed with the fullbacks having the ball on the line. Sure it help stretch Boro but after an hour of it Boro were more than happy to go from flank to flank closing the door.

 

The fullbacks need the wingers to overlap and vice versa. We pushed it wide to the full backs time and time again and our midfielders and wingers just stood and watched, knowing full well that Warnock and Shotton lack the pace to go around a defender and would have to play it back inside. Weimann finally clocked this and started overlapping Warnock, leading to us reaching the byline in dangerous crossing positions on a few occasions.

[Ambitious]

I'm going to single out Warnock for special praise tonight. I thought that he was excellent throughout, and Albert Adomah,  who usually tears us a new one, never got a look-in.

I agree. He looked solid tonight.

[lukedcfc]

Good point against arguably the best equipped side in the league. Once they took the lead it was always going to be a tough night. if we would of got a goal early it would have been a diffrent game. I know our goal came from a long ball but I don't want to see too much of that again, it was so predictable for boros defence.

 

carson 6 - didn't have much to do really

baird 5 - easily beaten by friend for the boro goal but was steady after that

keogh - 6 steady and wasn't tested much 

Shackell 6 - same as keogh

warnock 6 - had a ok game and put some decent crosses in

weimann 4 - had a poor game to be honest, early days though

hanson 5 - looked lively and sprayed some decent passes before he went off

hendrick 4 - was poor and has no awareness what so ever

thorne 5 -had a tough night and had to deal with a tough midfield, fabbrini caused him a lot of problems 1st half

ince 5 - it's just not happening or falling for once right now, it will come though

martin 5 - nearly scored with a header but overall was not in the game and boro defence had him well marshalled all night

russell 6 - scored and tried to get us going, I admire his passion for our club 

bent 4 - don't think he touched the ball, may be wrong though.

shotton 5 - didn't do too badly but he isn't the answer for right back cover

 

[Ambitious]

Five out of the six players with the most touches in the Championship on the night played for us. The other one was Henri Lansbury. 

Our back four and Thorne... That is. 

[Uptherams]

I'm going to single out Warnock for special praise tonight. I thought that he was excellent throughout, and Albert Adomah,  who usually tears us a new one, never got a look-in.

Easily his best game for us. Hopefully he can get back to his old self, pre Derby. But the reality is that we need one of our full backs to have an attacking mindset. So if Baird plays RB then Forsyth must start. 

[bcnram]

I'm not enjoying this new found position of mine as chief antagonist. i think I posted before the game started that the line up was set up to get a point. He went for his most experienced back four and built from there, sacrificing the full backs pushing on.

Now I have two observations/questions.

Managers always talk about blocks of fixtures

If you'd looked at the fixtures and seen Bolton away and then two home games against Charlton and MIddlesbrough, what points target do you think Paul and the board would have set?

5? let's be realistic and not over positive.

If yes then we're two points behind target already, now those points seem tiny, 2 little points that's all, no need to panic.

But two points dropped over 3 games is a margin that I'm not entirely comfortable with. Especially when we keep losing key players and any newcomers now need to hit the ground running like never before.

Second point, I can't believe there's not one person, not one fan who's mentioned the team sheet going in to the ref with Baird on it twice.  I checked whether it was genuine cos I really thought it had to be a wind up.. the answer i got was it's genuine.

Goodness me, I know he's a novice and I know he might be feeling under way too much pressure for a guy who's only had 3 games in charge.

But that's incredibly worrying for me, maybe you'll tell me I'm looking for too many little signs of him not being comfortable.. but oh my, I'd make a terrible chairman because that one little thing would plant such serious doubts in my mind, I'm not sure I could get rid of them...

His main job is to pick a side.... I wonder what reaction that would get if it got out to mainstream media.......please, someone tell me it was a poor joke and I've made myself look like a clown, I'd take that over my manager putting a player on the team sheet twice.

 

 

 

Maybe not one person has mentioned it because it is a non issue. Just looks like a cheap snipe on your part.