rynny Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Hang on, which season are you talking about? If it's 10-11, then I think you're mistaken on a few things, most notably that we were never 2nd that season, not once. The best we ended up was 4th, and on the morning of the 13th of November (before games were played) we were still 6 points from 2nd. Incidentally, the run you're talking about was 30 games, not 31. What's more, even getting past the difference in goals, you seem to outright ignore central points on the matter. That is, that McClaren from over half the season had promotion in his hands, then followed it up with relegation form for over quarter of a season. Nigel had from a third of the season got themselves to just in the playoffs, and still 6 points off second, then had their collapse while and after losing their star player after a contract dispute. Nigel's side didn't lose the plot while rumours of his imminent departure festered right through to the end of the season.That said, the form was awful. It has to go down as one of the worst collapses I've ever seen from a club. If it weren't for the situation with Commons I'd think he wouldn't have survived, but ultimately the situations don't have the similarities you seem to be trying to give them. We had a chance of going 2nd when we played Burnley 2 weeks later. I did include cup games in the run, the dismal Crawley match. Whether it is 30 or 31 makes no odds on the situation, a winning team was changed and messed around with before Commons left, whereas the team may not have lost the plot, the manager certainly did. Playing a RB at CB and vice versa. Dropping the key reason (Kuqi) we had been playing so well for Moore, not playing Sav against Lesta, choosing Ben Pringle over Bueno to name a few.I highlighted the part where you said the form for a team aiming for mid-table was not acceptable and expect the manager to be gone and I gave you an example in our recent history of a manager doing much worse with the mid-table expectations. Then asked if the manager should be sacked after that and if you did indeed want our manager to be.From your response I take it you believe he shouldn't, which is fair enough as that is your opinion. No need to get on your high horse and make out that I am missing points of a different argument. Was merely a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheltenhamRam Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't understand this with the interest in Bent and Ince, especially at the cost. I have a couple of Villa ST-holding pals at they're of the opinion he's a striker first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ram Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't understand this with the interest in Bent and Ince, especially at the cost. I have a couple of Villa ST-holding pals at they're of the opinion he's a striker first and foremost. Jonny russell was a striker first and foremost before he came here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheltenhamRam Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 True. But there is already a body of evidence that suggests he isn't keen in that position. At the quoted price I think it's a big gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r4derby Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 But don't you defend as a team strikers first line of defence and all that You do, in some systems and against certain opposition. Bent isn't that kind of forward. He won't run around putting pressure on their defence unless its required. What he will do, as has been mentioned by a couple of people, is make himself a nuisance in other ways, for example taking up positions between defenders in space with an angle to run on to a through ball, if and when our team wins the ball back. He's an outlet. All 11 players defending means you win the ball back, and suddenly several players have to switch back on to attacking mode, losing momentum. Bent is already switched on. Helps our swift counter attacking play well.An example would be winning goal against Sheff Weds at home (3-2), their centre backs were so concerned with Bent that others had space to run, yet when they switched off to him, he caused problems. Ince breaks, taken down, penalty, goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 But don't you defend as a team strikers first line of defence and all that You do, in some systems and against certain opposition. Bent isn't that kind of forward.Agree... Just look how much time our defenders seem to have on the ball when in possession... when Bent's playing their defence is more focused on watching him than taking the ball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Can we be clear. We have no idea what formation the new boss will choose. He might bunk up Thorne along Hughes to CM and play a 4-4-2. So we should stop trying to fit players into our previous one and only system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Some more Villa thoughts from a more general forum: "They'll be lethal with him and Bent in the Championship"."yeah i think he will be decent at championship level, maybe even "do a jerome" lol. i think he needs to play upfront and in a 2 to get the best out of him and the reason it didnt work out for him here is because he is always shoved out wide. scored some important goals but ultimately i think he needs to move on and it is in the best interests of both parties. he would be perfect in a front 2 with bent because andi will do all the hard work whilst bent can focus on the finishing aspect. iirc bent raved about him aswell so perhaps clement thinks he can do a job for them,. important now theyve got rid of ince aswell.""Good season 2012/13, never really kicked on. Works hard, but not clinical enough in front of goal. For the best really." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idiakez Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Am I the only one disappointed with Russell?I like him. I love the passion and effort that he shows when on the pitch.But ive been expecting so much more from him. I know hes had his injuries but he hasnt pushed on. I really think this is a massive season for Russell.Hes one of those players that im quite happy if he stays but not bothered if he goes.Infact theres only Chris Martin & George Thorne that I would be very disappointed to see leave. If the right offer came in for anyone else then id take it. He was on fire until Mac brought him on against Chesterfield with a tight hamstring (even though we were winning?) but when he came back from injury he never got anywhere near the form he showed previously, mainly due to confidence I suspect. He definitely looks more like a winger now than a striker though, at times last season it was obvious he wasn't a natural wide player. Hopefully he stays injury free next year and he replicates the form he was in around December time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I don't like this talk of Martin playing off the striker in attacking midfield. Put Weimann at AM if you want, but Martin needs to lead the line imo. I can't see him getting the same goal tallies otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Can we be clear. We have no idea what formation the new boss will choose. He might bunk up Thorne along Hughes to CM and play a 4-4-2. So we should stop trying to fit players into our previous one and only system. God i hope not....As for Weimann, the kind of player that could do very well from dropping down a league. Depends on how much we pay. £4m and I would say we definitely overpaid, £2m would be a good price for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 God i hope not....As for Weimann, the kind of player that could do very well from dropping down a league. Depends on how much we pay. £4m and I would say we definitely overpaid, £2m would be a good price for him.£4m....what? He has 1 year left on his contract and is clearly not part of Villa's plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 £4m....what? He has 1 year left on his contract and is clearly not part of Villa's plans. God i hope not....As for Weimann, the kind of player that could do very well from dropping down a league. Depends on how much we pay. £4m and I would say we definitely overpaid, £2m would be a good price for him.Finish reading the sentence, im saying dont ******* pay £4m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Finish reading the sentence, im saying dont ******* pay £4mYeah but who said we were paying 4m?They're saying it's about £2m anyway, so we'll wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yeah but who said we were paying 4m?They're saying it's about £2m anyway, so we'll wait and see.I swear I remember someone saying something about £4m earlier in the thread, might be going crazy mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I swear I remember someone saying something about £4m earlier in the thread, might be going crazy mindIt's all this 4-4-2 nonsense, enough to send anyone crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 We had a chance of going 2nd when we played Burnley 2 weeks later. I did include cup games in the run, the dismal Crawley match. Whether it is 30 or 31 makes no odds on the situation, a winning team was changed and messed around with before Commons left, whereas the team may not have lost the plot, the manager certainly did. Playing a RB at CB and vice versa. Dropping the key reason (Kuqi) we had been playing so well for Moore, not playing Sav against Lesta, choosing Ben Pringle over Bueno to name a few.I highlighted the part where you said the form for a team aiming for mid-table was not acceptable and expect the manager to be gone and I gave you an example in our recent history of a manager doing much worse with the mid-table expectations. Then asked if the manager should be sacked after that and if you did indeed want our manager to be.From your response I take it you believe he shouldn't, which is fair enough as that is your opinion. No need to get on your high horse and make out that I am missing points of a different argument. Was merely a question.We did not have the chance to go 2nd when we played Burnley. We at best could have ended up 3rd, as at kickoff 2nd was still 6 points away. We were to only have Kuqi for 2 more games after the Burnley game, regardless of whether or not we wanted to keep playing him, as that was when his loan spell was to finish, and it could not be extended at that time. The reasons behind him being dropped were of a great deal of debate at the time. What Moore gave us at the very least though was a striker that we could actually keep playing past those few games. As for Alberto Bueno, he had started to look awful by that point. The form went, thing went wrong, but ultimately keeping Clough on payed off and was key to building the club to what it was under McClaren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I was pretty happy being linked with Wiemann to say the least but i then noticed his goal scoring record looks pretty poor.. Concerning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 His goalscoring record is pretty poor but the thing is he's lauded for his finishing. Thing is, people are idiots, but not to that degree. There must be something about him that people have seen that's waiting to burst out. There must be some reason that people all say his finishing is great. I look at him and think that in the next 3 years he's either going to flop and head back to Austria (or wherever he came from ) or he's going to have his breakthrough season and hit 20 goals. So I trust the club on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It's all this 4-4-2 nonsense, enough to send anyone crazyWhat are you on about? Hughes would make a great left midfieldHughes - Thorne - Bryson - HendrickPromoted in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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