Clough v Mclaren (Blame Leeds Ram and Davenportram)

[Tombo]

if the jury is out on anything it should be out on the idea of having a Director of football responsible for buying the players. 

​Exactly. We had been trying to bring in this director for a while but Clough refused. So it was a case of "okay, we'll go without the director but you need to show us that you don't need a DoF by getting the results on your own". And he started badly, so he got pushed in favour of the new system. He might still be in the job if he'd agreed to Chris Evans coming in.

[RamNut]

...but why is Chris Evans more qualified to identify players than the manager?

and why is he placed above the manager as Director of football. 

(P.s. And why did he go all the way to Spain to sign a stopper.....there are loads of that type of player in this country)

[Boycie]

...but why is Chris Evans more qualified to identify players than the manager?

and why is he placed above the manager as Director of football. 

(P.s. And why did he go all the way to Spain to sign a stopper.....there are loads of that type of player in this country)

Air miles?

[NottsRammy]

Nigel did a reasonable job at Derby and steadied the ship in extremely difficult circumstances. We will never know if the same backing was available to him as with SM.

He did put together the nucleus of the team and got them playing good football 

McClaren simply improved it a little with a trio of shrewd loan signings. 

Last season raised the expectations for this season and unfortunately it doesn't look like we are going to realise those expectations.

In reality they both played a huge part, in their different ways, of making last season something special

There is no point going on about what Clough might have done, he is Derby's past who played his part in our development but nothing more.

Jury is still out on McClaren.

Personally I think there are a few reasons why things haven't gone as well as expected/hoped this season

Injuries have obviously played a part but so has the bad management of that situation. Our style of play has certainly changed from fast flowing attacking football to a slower build up. Planned? I don't know.

Also, if you have played to a high standard of football, which I have, you would also know that a settled team builds understanding and confidence. We always seem to be changing for the sake of it.

That moves me on to team spirit, I truly don't think it is what it was last season. 

Whatever, we all want the same. We all have a point of view and I respect your even if I don't completely agree with it

 

​The Only reason I go on about clough is because I think the saint in most peoples eyes Mr Sam Rush was wrong to sack him like he did instead of backing him with more room for wages and more money for players like SM got.Admittedly it wasn't a huge amount but Clough should have been given the chance......in my opinion he earned the right.

And at the point of Clough going I was beginning to think the end was near for him.But that's because I thought we had nothing for investment  and needed another manager that could find players on the cheap.Had I known we had a little money in the bank I think it should have been made available to Nigel instead of SR stabbing him in the back after the forest match which he deffo did.

The biggest mistake Nigel did was selling Jason shackle when you look at it that's was a disaster of huge proportions.

 

 

[Wolfie]

Gates at PP are about 8000 more now than they were under the last weeks of Clough. No way would his brand of football ever get over 30k attendances.

Sheff Utd fans are moaning about the negative tactics. Have we forgotten that here?.

Give me McClaren's brand of football over his any day.

[Ashz09]

If we still had Clough I would of been excited about being 16-10th nevermind fighting for the play-offs. I have friends who are Sheff Utd fans and they want him out...

 

Putting round pegs in square holes swapping a attacking player for a defender when they are drawing etc etc.. God I miss those days... Honest!

[Ovis aries]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[BOB BIGGS]

If we still had Clough I would of been excited about being 16-10th nevermind fighting for the play-offs. I have friends who are Sheff Utd fans and they want him out...

 

Putting round pegs in square holes swapping a attacking player for a defender when they are drawing etc etc.. God I miss those days... Honest!

Perhaps they should get real....a slice of reality would do them good!

[Inverurie Ram]

Gates at PP are about 8000 more now than they were under the last weeks of Clough. No way would his brand of football ever get over 30k attendances.

Sheff Utd fans are moaning about the negative tactics. Have we forgotten that here?.

Give me McClaren's brand of football over his any day.

​Would that be the 8000 moaning or booing or doing both?

[ChaddesdenRam]

Gates at PP are about 8000 more now than they were under the last weeks of Clough. No way would his brand of football ever get over 30k attendances.

Sheff Utd fans are moaning about the negative tactics. Have we forgotten that here?.

Give me McClaren's brand of football over his any day.

Brand of football? 

We played the same system under Clough as McClaren. Martin at the peak of a 433. Everyone can remember the goal with 25 passes in the build up, Clough just struggled to get those performances out of the players on a consistent basis. I don't think the style of play changed drastically, we had always been a passing side. McClaren took the players to another level but the way we played didn't really change. 

In my opinion the difference in attendances was caused by league position rather than brand of football.

[Ashz09]

Brand of football?

We played the same system under Clough as McClaren. Martin at the peak of a 433. Everyone can remember the goal with 25 passes in the build up, Clough just struggled to get those performances out of the players on a consistent basis. I don't think the style of play changed drastically, we had always been a passing side. McClaren took the players to another level but the way we played didn't really change.

In my opinion the difference in attendances was caused by league position rather than brand of football.

​I think under Clough I agree the formation was the same. McLaren has basically asked them to attack more and made more positive subs (Well used to) where as Clough was more cautious and made negative subs etc.

 

I think since Brummies came back at there ground we have changed since then we're more concerned about conceding a goal then attacking.

[rynny]

Brand of football? 

We played the same system under Clough as McClaren. Martin at the peak of a 433. Everyone can remember the goal with 25 passes in the build up, Clough just struggled to get those performances out of the players on a consistent basis. I don't think the style of play changed drastically, we had always been a passing side. McClaren took the players to another level but the way we played didn't really change. 

In my opinion the difference in attendances was caused by league position rather than brand of football.

Under Clough last season we played 4 defenders a sitting midfielder 2 center mids Ward in a free role to go where he liked and Martin and Russell up front. We had no real width except when Ward decided he was gonna hide out there.

[Tombo]

Brand of football? 

We played the same system under Clough as McClaren. Martin at the peak of a 433. Everyone can remember the goal with 25 passes in the build up, Clough just struggled to get those performances out of the players on a consistent basis. I don't think the style of play changed drastically, we had always been a passing side. McClaren took the players to another level but the way we played didn't really change. 

In my opinion the difference in attendances was caused by league position rather than brand of football.

​4-3-3 was Mac's formation. Everyone could see that's the formation that best suited the players. Everyone except Clough, who insisted on either 4-1-3-2 (Bizarrely) or more often than not, 4-4-2 diamond. He had Russell and Martin up front, and the season before he had Sammon and Martin for the last few games. He played Ward behind the strikers as well as Kieran Freeman or Adam Smith at RB.

Clough had us keep possession and go nowhere with it. Look at the difference between that Yeovil goal with multiple passes and all our goals since. We had zero tempo under Clough, zero player movement, zero creative freedom. It was get the ball and bore the tits off the opposition until they let us score, or until Clough gets sick of that and decides to get them hoofing it.

[davenportram]

​4-3-3 was Mac's formation. Everyone could see that's the formation that best suited the players. Everyone except Clough, who insisted on either 4-1-3-2 (Bizarrely) or more often than not, 4-4-2 diamond. He had Russell and Martin up front, and the season before he had Sammon and Martin for the last few games. He played Ward behind the strikers as well as Kieran Freeman or Adam Smith at RB.

Clough had us keep possession and go nowhere with it. Look at the difference between that Yeovil goal with multiple passes and all our goals since. We had zero tempo under Clough, zero player movement, zero creative freedom. It was get the ball and bore the tits off the opposition until they let us score, or until Clough gets sick of that and decides to get them hoofing it.

​a bit like now when we come up against a well drilled and organised defense. (in fact last season too in a few games)

[Tombo]

​a bit like now when we come up against a well drilled and organised defense. (in fact last season too in a few games)

No, not really... What games are you watching?

[Ashz09]

​a bit like now when we come up against a well drilled and organised defense. (in fact last season too in a few games)

​Only time I seen that happen was last game usually the team are full of runners etc. I think that was down to missing Hughes.

[Animal is a Ram]

There are only two facts of any major importance.

1. McClaren is here. 
2. Clough is not.

It would be like asking what might have happened if Clough/Taylor hadn't penned their resignation? or if Longson had rejected it? We will never know, and its just boring speculation. Let's just focus on what we have in front of us.

[davenportram]

No, not really... What games are you watching?

​all of those where we knocked it around the back four for ages and created hardly any chances at all.

[ChaddesdenRam]

Under Clough last season we played 4 defenders a sitting midfielder 2 center mids Ward in a free role to go where he liked and Martin and Russell up front. We had no real width except when Ward decided he was gonna hide out there.

​

​4-3-3 was Mac's formation. Everyone could see that's the formation that best suited the players. Everyone except Clough, who insisted on either 4-1-3-2 (Bizarrely) or more often than not, 4-4-2 diamond. He had Russell and Martin up front, and the season before he had Sammon and Martin for the last few games. He played Ward behind the strikers as well as Kieran Freeman or Adam Smith at RB.

Clough had us keep possession and go nowhere with it. Look at the difference between that Yeovil goal with multiple passes and all our goals since. We had zero tempo under Clough, zero player movement, zero creative freedom. It was get the ball and bore the tits off the opposition until they let us score, or until Clough gets sick of that and decides to get them hoofing it.

 

​Having gone back through the 9 games Clough had in charge you are correct he persisted with a 442 or a 4132 except for Yeovil away, Millwall away and Bolton away. In those 3 games we took 7 points. 

Strange how he decided not to try the 433 more often because evidently it worked and Mac used it exceptionally well too. 

[davenportram]

​

 

​Having gone back through the 9 games Clough had in charge you are correct he persisted with a 442 or a 4132 except for Yeovil away, Millwall away and Bolton away. In those 3 games we took 7 points. 

Strange how he decided not to try the 433 more often because evidently it worked and Mac used it exceptionally well too. 

​perhaps he saw at the time what the fans didn't. How strong those teams were and thought the other formations would give us more protection at the back or prevent us from being overun in midfield.