Bris Vegas Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 A lot of people here throwing the 'average football fan isn't clever enough to appreciate Dawkins' arguement around and that annoys me a bit. If he is as good as all you super fans believe why does McClaren rarely pick him when our 4 wingers have all been fit? Why do we win less points with him in the team? Could it just be that he isn't as great as you think he is? There is a place for him in the squad but I am with McClaren on this and would rarely make him first choice. I don't think anybody on here is saying he should be in the XI when all our players are fit. Most people on here are merely pointing out what he offers the team while he is on the pitch. I also think you're being slightly unfair picking on the PPG statistic too when you analyse what games he has started: Rotherham (H) Sheff Wed (A) Charlton (A) Forest (A) Blackburn (A) Cardiff (H) Brentford A) Wolves (H) Brighton (H) Boro (A) Blackburn (H) He's firstly played in more away games than home, with 5/6 away matches being against top half opposition. Our home record under him is Won 4 Drawn 1, with the draw against Cardiff being harsh given how much we dominated. It's easy to pick up on that sort of statistic, but it's harsh given the games he has played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I don't think anybody on here is saying he should be in the XI when all our players are fit. Most people on here are merely pointing out what he offers the team while he is on the pitch. I also think you're being slightly unfair picking on the PPG statistic too when you analyse what games he has started: Rotherham (H) Sheff Wed (A) Charlton (A) Forest (A) Blackburn (A) Cardiff (H) Brentford A) Wolves (H) Brighton (H) Boro (A) Blackburn (H) He's firstly played in more away games than home, with 5/6 away matches being against top half opposition. Our home record under him is Won 4 Drawn 1, with the draw against Cardiff being harsh given how much we dominated. It's easy to pick up on that sort of statistic, but it's harsh given the games he has played. Agreed. That's what frustrates me about the "Stats don't lie" mindset. They may not come out and lie, but they can be bloody deceiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambam Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Simon is a luxury we can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 So the only thing they've proved by posting those stats up is that Steve picks Dawkins for the bigger games and those difficult away games where we need to keep the ball better so our defence isn't under constant pressure. Hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 So the only thing they've proved by posting those stats up is that Steve picks Dawkins for the bigger games and those difficult away games where we need to keep the ball better so our defence isn't under constant pressure. Hahaha Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 The average football fan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgford Ram Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I don't think anybody on here is saying he should be in the XI when all our players are fit. Most people on here are merely pointing out what he offers the team while he is on the pitch. I also think you're being slightly unfair picking on the PPG statistic too when you analyse what games he has started: Rotherham (H) Sheff Wed (A) Charlton (A) Forest (A) Blackburn (A) Cardiff (H) Brentford A) Wolves (H) Brighton (H) Boro (A) Blackburn (H) He's firstly played in more away games than home, with 5/6 away matches being against top half opposition. Our home record under him is Won 4 Drawn 1, with the draw against Cardiff being harsh given how much we dominated. It's easy to pick up on that sort of statistic, but it's harsh given the games he has played. So the only thing they've proved by posting those stats up is that Steve picks Dawkins for the bigger games and those difficult away games where we need to keep the ball better so our defence isn't under constant pressure. Hahaha I assume the stats you refer to are the ones I posted previously (the ones I have copied below)? I let slide the fact there is another example of football fan snobbery but point out the games Dawkins has been fit for but not started; Fulham (h) Ipswich (h) Wigan (h) Huddersfield (h) Watford (a) Leeds (a) Norwich (h) Birmingham (a) Leeds (h) Ipswich (a) Even us lowly 'average' fans can pick out that at least half of those are those 'bigger games' or 'difficult away games' you are trying to educate us on. By all means disagree with an opinion but don't try and claim you are right by trying to make out people who don't agree - and there are an awful lot of them on this thread, on this forum and in the ground every fortnight - aren't clever enough to appreciate proper football. Just done some analysis (please feel free to check this) Assumption - When our 4 wingers have been fit they have always all been in the match day 18. Caveat - Only included league games as I don't believe we have played our strongest XI in any cup game. Caveat - Not including wide appearances from any other player (eg Calero or Best) or accounting for one of the 4 wingers to play anywhere other than out wide. Russell - 18 starts / 8 sub appearances Dawkins - 11 starts / 9 sub appearances (left on bench on one occasion) Ward - 12 starts / 2 sub appearances (left on bench on one occasion) Ibe - 13 starts / 7 sub appearances This to me shows that given a choice McClaren was least likely to start with Dawkins (interestingly when fit Ward seems to be most likely to be picked). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgford Ram Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I don't think anybody on here is saying he should be in the XI when all our players are fit. I must admit that this comment caused me to re read the thread. As I have read it over the last couple of days it felt pretty even between pro-Dawkins and anti-Dawkins (for want of better descriptions) but you are correct there are very few claiming Dawkins to be better than our other wingers and even fewer claiming he should be in the starting XI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I assume the stats you refer to are the ones I posted previously (the ones I have copied below)? I let slide the fact there is another example of football fan snobbery but point out the games Dawkins has been fit for but not started; Fulham (h) Ipswich (h) Wigan (h) Huddersfield (h) Watford (a) Leeds (a) Norwich (h) Birmingham (a) Leeds (h) Ipswich (a) Even us lowly 'average' fans can pick out that at least half of those are those 'bigger games' or 'difficult away games' you are trying to educate us on. By all means disagree with an opinion but don't try and claim you are right by trying to make out people who don't agree - and there are an awful lot of them on this thread, on this forum and in the ground every fortnight - aren't clever enough to appreciate proper football. I'm not really sure on where you're going with this? As far as stats go, it looks like Dawkins has been available for 21 games this season and started 11 of them. I may not be a genius at maths, but that suggests that SM has started him more often than not when he's available. Evidently proving that he does rate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridgford Ram Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I'm not really sure on where you're going with this? As far as stats go, it looks like Dawkins has been available for 21 games this season and started 11 of them. I may not be a genius at maths, but that suggests that SM has started him more often than not when he's available. Evidently proving that he does rate him. I realise you are winding me up but I will bite anyway. I am sure you realise that 11 out of 21 (52%) is not as good as 18 out of 26 (69%), 12 out of 14 (86%) or 13 out of 20 (65%) which shows that McClaren started him least regularly of him, Ward, Russell and Ibe. My real point though was pointing out that Dawkins has been benched for as many big games as he has started so to claim that McClaren picks him for those big games is not completely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I realise you are winding me up but I will bite anyway. I am sure you realise that 11 out of 21 (52%) is not as good as 18 out of 26 (69%), 12 out of 14 (86%) or 13 out of 20 (65%) which shows that McClaren started him least regularly of him, Ward, Russell and Ibe. My real point though was pointing out that Dawkins has been benched for as many big games as he has started so to claim that McClaren picks him for those big games is not completely true. A simple take is other than Russell who became a goal scoring wide player, the other three have effectively had equal game time because McClaren goes for "horses for courses" Statistics need a much bigger population to be able to form any meaningful conclusion. in tests 8 out of ten owners said their cat preferred ......... Well calling in ten people of street, until 8 of the ten said it, statistically means nothing. Unless was from a large sample ...otherwise can be just coincidence. Games played for our wide players is a very low number. And for the record I am more than happy to see Dawkins play ......he is someone who playing regularly in team should become more of a threat. He just needs support from the fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammieib Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Ok the big games away when Mac played him to possible keep posession more - have a look at those games, we didn't fair too well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 If you don't fancy watching the full 90 then watch the 14 minute extended highlights on RamsPlayer. Dawkins did everything that Ward did if not more. It's just he didn't do it by running down the flank and crossing. His best cross came from inside the box and was met by a diving header at the near post. He was involved in the build up to a couple of shots. Yet when he went off for Bennett the lads behind me said "about time". When Ward went off it was "you're my Jamie Waaaaaard" Once our fans latch onto a player they look for any faults they can find. Not that everyone should love Dawkins. Just that some fans need to be fair. Just watched the extended highlights on Rams Player (before seeing this post) and I came on this thread to say exactly what you have here. I came away from the game thinking he was very poor in the first half but, having watched the highlights, he was involved in every single chance we had in the first 45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Just watched the extended highlights on Rams Player (before seeing this post) and I came on this thread to say exactly what you have here. I came away from the game thinking he was very poor in the first half but, having watched the highlights, he was involved in every single chance we had in the first 45. It's always worth watching the games back or at least a decent chunk of them. Can change your opinion quite a lot. Hendrick was better than I originally thought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Is it just me or do our possession stats appear consistently better when Dawks is in the side.And our win-ratio I would expect to be positively correlated to our possession stats.Albert! Albert! I feel a Pearson Linear Correlation Coefficient coming on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Dawkins is one of the best touch players I have seen. Very subtle. A bit too subtle for some fans? First touch makes the difference between professional and pub-league player. And Dawks has one hell of a first touch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayweb95 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Who would feel comfortable if we didn't sign a winger and him being our 3rd choice winger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North_Stand_Ram Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Who would feel comfortable if we didn't sign a winger and him being our 3rd choice winger? Who second? Russell is out for 4 weeks. I just don't rate him. Hopefully someone comes in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 First touch makes the difference between professional and pub-league player. And Dawks has one hell of a first touch! yup, but he does nothing after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayweb95 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Who second? Russell is out for 4 weeks. I just don't rate him. Hopefully someone comes in yeah Russell being second, talking long term for the remaining games.. Dawkins makes our wings weak which not too long ago was very strong with Ibe. Think loaning support needs to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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