Jourdan Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'm pretty sure Naylor will be gone by the end of the window, either released or on loan as he can only be on a couple of grand a week. Same goes for Whitbread if we can find a buyer. As for Barker, I can't see us renewing his contract and he'll be lucky to get picked up by a league 1 team due to the extent of his injury, he's done brilliantly just to be able to jog again. The thing is you don't know the difference between a talker and a shouter. A shouter like Keogh & Grant is they just give the odd shout of 'come on' when we're under a bit of pressure. Whereas a talker will constantly be telling every one where to go, man on, drop off, pick him up, don't rush etc. The difference is massive. Also, the mistake you're making is thinking we all want Warnock to replace Fozzie, we don't. We want him challenged. He's gotten a little too comfortable this season simply because he knows he'll always start, come rain or shine. If Naylor was up to that task he'd have played more than two games for us. Schteve doesn't trust him as he's no where near mobile enough for our system. If Fozzie had gotten inured for more than a couple of games at any point, we would've brought someone in on loan. I agree with all this, and Ramsbottom you are my Siamese twin surgically removed at our birth and I claim my Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1ghterfeul Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No - his caps came immediately after McClaren got sacked from the England job Macca gave him his first at least.http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30776582 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 If McClaren doesn't trust Naylor to play a part, it begs the question why did he bring him in the first place, why did he give him a contract extension and why has it taken almost a year for him to address that fact? I've heard numerous times from people that Naylor acts as a mentor to younger players. McClaren likes to train with a big group so I'm sure he brings something extra to training sessions, and if Forsyth was ever suspended he could come in for the odd game. We signed him from Accrington Stanley. His wage would be a drop in the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Some are still stuck in the past. We don't need to ship out anymore to make space. And is we are in the prem we need a bigger team; more competition and better quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 As I said in a previous post Jourdan needs to listen to the Chris Evans interview and he'll realise there's no chance of the dressing room being upset. Mr Evans in his team check every aspect of a player, they speak to their old managers, team mates, everything to ensure he's the right personality to fit into the squad... I have listened to the interview with Evans on the podcast and I'm fully aware that Evans and McClaren are very meticulous in their approach to signing a player. But to say there is no chance at all that a signing could upset the dressing room is a bit of a stretch. I'm sure every manager, every scout and every director of football believes in their methods but any method no matter how successful is not infallible. I take it on board that this is a decision that McClaren won't have made without serious consideration, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the right decision and only time will tell just what kind of influence Warnock's arrival will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAT Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think you are being a tad harsh there. Several of them have been brought in as development players, and I'm suprised made it into your list. Also if you are including loan players then ibe has to be a success then? Whitbread is the one disappointment, with the jury still out on dawkins, other than that i would say they have all done the job that they were brought in to do. Well..... Then there is best :-( Agree! Steve is just working to the clubs philosophy of developing players. He hasn't spent big or tried to change the squad too much like most managers do in their first 18 months at a club. In one of his interviews he explained that his mistake at forest was trying to make too many changes too soon and upsetting the balance. He learned from this mistake and we benefitted from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Macca gave him his first at least.http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30776582 No he didn't. Steve McClaren was England assistant manager - Sven was manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No he didn't. Steve McClaren was England assistant manager - Sven was manager. Weird - for his 3 caps he got called up in 2005 by Sven 2008 by Fabio Capello and then 2010 for the World Cup squad (again Capello) can't be many England players with 3 caps so far apart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Weird - for his 3 caps he got called up in 2005 by Sven 2008 by Fabio Capello and then 2010 for the World Cup squad (again Capello) can't be many England players with 3 caps so far apart! All during left back crisis as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I've heard numerous times from people that Naylor acts as a mentor to younger players. McClaren likes to train with a big group so I'm sure he brings something extra to training sessions, and if Forsyth was ever suspended he could come in for the odd game. We signed him from Accrington Stanley. His wage would be a drop in the ocean. I understand this, Duracell. But players can train with clubs and not sign a playing contract. Better yet Naylor could have been signed to a player-coach role if that was the desired effect. My point is that if this has always been the case regarding Naylor, why are we only now addressing Forsyth's lack of competition? It seems strange to me when in fact defensively we've actually improved and it's not really a pressing concern when we are second in the league, no less. I just don't see what difference Warnock will make to the side, and if I'm alone in thinking that, no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Also, the mistake you're making is thinking we all want Warnock to replace Fozzie, we don't. We want him challenged. He's gotten a little too comfortable this season simply because he knows he'll always start, come rain or shine. Do you think it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1ghterfeul Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 No he didn't. Steve McClaren was England assistant manager - Sven was manager. I stand corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I understand this, Duracell. But players can train with clubs and not sign a playing contract. Better yet Naylor could have been signed to a player-coach role if that was the desired effect. My point is that if this has always been the case regarding Naylor, why are we only now addressing Forsyth's lack of competition? It seems strange to me when in fact defensively we've actually improved and it's not really a pressing concern when we are second in the league, no less. I just don't see what difference Warnock will make to the side, and if I'm alone in thinking that, no worries. I think the signing is more about a player who is better than what we already have being available at price we think is too good not to sign. You always have to look to improve your squad and get players in when you feel the price is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Read in DET signing on hold to access fitness of player ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think the signing is more about a player who is better than what we already have being available at price we think is too good not to sign. You always have to look to improve your squad and get players in when you feel the price is right. I hope that turns out to be the case, Rynny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admira Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 From today's Daily Mash Leeds United Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 G STAR, of course I'm talking about our success under McClaren, who when compared to previous managers in the last decade or so, has to be considered a success irrespective of what happened at Wembley. Small, tight-knit squads can't be successful? You only have to look at Burnley last season to know that it isn't true. They are a great example of a side who didn't have the resources or the squad size that many other Championship clubs possess. They were prudent and made small tweaks where possible but even when the squad was depleted, the continuity they had served them well and they had a togetherness, understanding and team spirit which is difficult to replicate. I think McClaren has been trying to maintain the spirit too by keeping the core of our squad together and up until this point, it has been vindicated. Honestly I didn't expect us to be so active in this transfer window because the squad we have has performed well enough. The fact we are in the market for four or five players in January concerns me. I'd hate for it to disrupt the balance and the spirit of the squad. I understand the point you was making but where is the evidence to say that our improved performances have anything to do with us having a small tight knit squad? Our 'success' is purely down to us being a better footballing team than 90% to 100% of the teams in this division, nothing to do with the size of our squad in my opinion. I gave you an example that flies in the face of your theory, in the shape of Leon Best...how does he fit into our small tight knit squad? Yet has his arrival had any detrimental effect on the squad? If the size of the squad is really a factor then him sending Santos and Kwame out on loan means we can bring another 2 players in surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I understand the point you was making but where is the evidence to say that our improved performances have anything to do with us having a small tight knit squad? Our 'success' is purely down to us being a better footballing team than 90% to 100% of the teams in this division, nothing to do with the size of our squad in my opinion. I gave you an example that flies in the face of your theory, in the shape of Leon Best...how does he fit into our small tight knit squad? Yet has his arrival had any detrimental effect on the squad? If the size of the squad is really a factor then him sending Santos and Kwame out on loan means we can bring another 2 players in surely? It's to do with the make-up and the balance of the squad and the fact that McClaren has kept faith in the players that were already here and has not tried to make drastic changes which underpins my point about having a reasonably-sized, tight-knit squad with good morale. It's never been bloated or frittered with players earning way over the odds, being disruptive or not having a genuine role in the side. Sure this isn't the sole reason we are winning football matches - I never said it was - but I'm sure it's a contributing factor. Well Best doesn't fit, hence why he is now no longer with us. Did he have a detrimental effect on the squad? It seems not, but I'm not in a position to say either way with any confidence. Again, you just never know what impact a signing will have on a team, be it positive or negative. We can only hope it'll be positive. In fairness, I would have said exactly the same about Best that I have said about Warnock. I didn't think he was a worthwhile signing and I didn't think he would add anything to the side either - I could only hope and pray! Santos and Thomas are established members of the under 21 side with a handful of first-team appearances between them. Why would this have any bearing on the signings made for the first team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Do you think it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ramsbottom, I agree completely that with regards to those three players - their days are numbered. So if Keogh is not enough of a presence, why does he remain captain? Surely that's what you want from your captain - to be commanding? I fully appreciate that there are different ways to approach the captain's role and I fully appreciate that there are different ways of showing presence on the football pitch. You're saying we need more talkers to orchestrate our play, pass on instructions from the sidelines and to keep us organised - but you identified that we have those players already in the shape of Buxton at the back and Eustace in midfield, isn't that enough? How many pilots does one plane need? If McClaren doesn't trust Naylor to play a part, it begs the question why did he bring him in the first place, why did he give him a contract extension and why has it taken almost a year for him to address that fact? I fully appreciate that you think that Forsyth has been able take his place for granted and that he might have got complacent and that's why he needs competition. We'll see if Warnock's arrival changes anything. Again, there's a difference in having presence and being a talker. Keogh is our outstanding CB (at least this season so far) and captain because he has presence but he's not much of a talker. It's been highlighted on here a lot about our up turn in form and results whilst Eustace has had a run of games, it's no coincedence. You can never have enough talkers on the pitch. In the lower leagues, the difference between players who talk and can read a game is massive compared to those that don't. I've played with some very skillful players who never really excelled because they didn't open their gobs enough, whereas average players went on to play at Mickleover Sports/Ilkeston standard because they never stopped rabbiting on. Of course in the football league the difference is less but it does make a difference and most of the time comes from experience. In regards to Naylor, he was brought in as a stop gap, a cheap, reliable (for a couple of games) alternative. Perhaps Schteve went for him becuase our budget couldn't stretch to Warnock's wages last season, whereas this season it does, who knows. All I know is Schteve reckons he'll make us better, and in him we trust... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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