The long lasting Nigel Clough debate.

[Mafiabob]

Think I've said nearly enough on the Clough debate.... Just add one more little bit.

Seems to be splitting opinions up in South Yorkshire too....

Mind you if he does eventually leave there I imaigine they won't go into endless threads like we do about him.

Looking forward to a Paul Jewell/Billy Davies thread legacy soon.... Mind you I might be waiting a while....

[trevor1946]

leave clough alone or we will be back.meanwhile enjoy watching his players

[Gary Teale]

Nigel Clough is a League 1 manager

[AndyinLiverpool]

What does everyone think of John Gregory's legacy? Or Colin Murphy's?

[Mafiabob]

What does everyone think of John Gregory's legacy? Or Colin Murphy's?

Exactly.... Completely agree Andy....

[CornwallRam]

Much has been said on this subject and there's little to add in terms of his handling of the first team - good recruitment and poor tactics resulting in an underperforming team.

 

Yet little has been said about the academy during his tenure. Was it a success? We were told that it was one of our/his strengths, but does the evidence bear that out? Personally I don't think it entirely does. Most of the academy players recruited during Clough's tenure have been released. The only one to have featured significantly in the first team is Mason Bennett. OK, he brought Hughes, Hendrick and O'Brien through to be first team regulars (ish for OB), but all three were at the club before Nigel. So he was good at putting young players in the squad, but that's not the same as developing the academy. I believe that the recent U21 recruitment spree points to the under-performance of the academy during Nigel

[Stive Pesley]

I think the debate will surface continually on some level, whilst we have the core squad of players that Nigel brought in.

 

That may be some time given the mumber of contract extensions that got dished out over the summer.

 

Did NC buy some decent players? Yes

Did he also buy some duffers that we don't talk about as much? Yes!

Was it the right decision to sack him? Hindsight suggests Yes!

 

The bottom line is that we had stagnated and were probably going to hover around mid-table forever if we carried on. Sacking him and taking McClaren was a bold and risky move. It could have gone horribly wrong.

 

Let's all just be grateful that it didn't eh?

[bcnram]

Clough did a decent job in the circumstances. We have been left with some excellent players from that era. Having said that, sometimes a change is needed just to spark something different, and I think that time had come.

[mcsilks]

Clough rumoured to take over - I wasn't happy, 100% on his surname, can't argue that

 

Actually, I disagree. Clough was appointed because he did a teriffic job working his way up with a lower league club.

 

You're implying that he got the job solely because of his name and that takes away all the hard work he did at Burton.

[mcsilks]

The simple facts are that our current success is largely down to the infrastructure that Clough put into place.

 

He steadied a sinking ship.

 

Anyone that cannot see that is, quite frankly, ignorant.

 

 

McClaren is doing well and he would be, and has been the first to admt what a stella job Clough did.

[Albert]

No doubt the surname was a factor, but it's not like he was a complete nobody.  If we had appointed an ex-England international footballer with lots of experience playing at the highest levels, nobody would have really batted an eyelid.  But because we appointed an ex-England international with 10 years of fairly successful lower-league managerial experience and a track record of managing in the style we wanted (i.e. low budget, focussing developing academy and lower league players) it was suddenly a disastrous appointment.

To be honest I actually think his name being Clough hurt him a bit.

I remember a thread the day he was announced as manager basically saying "He wouldn't be here if his name were Smith".

Former England International, who was a player manager at his previous club steps up to the Championship as his first solely managerial job (that is, he joined Burton as a player-manager), having taken a side to the brink of promotion to the professional leagues, having guided them to the highest place in their history to that point. Not the highest profile managerial signing, but certainly nothing to be sniffed at.

It's all been and past though. He's at Sheffield United and we're doing well under Steve. It was time to move on a long time ago.

[CumbrianRam]

I will say is the it became obvious that we needed a change, you could predict the course of every season under him.

 

Bang average manager, decent scout.

[Martyn]

Clough rumoured to take over - I wasn't happy, 100% on his surname, can't argue that

Clough took over - I wasn't happy

Clough's first day in the job - Put my feelings to one side, give the guy a chance

Clough in the job - Season after season I was getting more unhappy with the results, thought we had players that could do much better

Clough sacked - Very happy, nothing against Nigel personally but it was best for Derby County

Tony Pulis linked - Hmmm, not sure

Steve McClaren linked - wtf, seriously?

McClaren took over - I wasn't happy at all

McClaren's Ipswich team talk - Wahey give the guy a chance!

McClaren game after game - I love this man, I want his babies

Today - Never been so positive about Derby since Jim Smith was in charge

 

The last few posts have said something similar, but again, the only bit of that I'd disagree with is the bit that's supposed to be inarguable!

 

Funny old game innit?

[Martyn]

If someone can give me an example of a manager who after four years of solid if unspectacular finishes who then suddenly turned it round into the form we've had since we've left, I'd love to hear it. But I don't think it would have happened. It doesn't work like that.

 

Off the top of my head I can only think of one... Nigel Clough, at Burton.

[CumbrianRam]

Clough rumoured to take over - I wasn't happy, 100% on his surname, can't argue that

Clough took over - I wasn't happy

Clough's first day in the job - Put my feelings to one side, give the guy a chance

Clough in the job - Season after season I was getting more unhappy with the results, thought we had players that could do much better

Clough sacked - Very happy, nothing against Nigel personally but it was best for Derby County

Tony Pulis linked - Hmmm, not sure

Steve McClaren linked - wtf, seriously?

McClaren took over - I wasn't happy at all

McClaren's Ipswich team talk - Wahey give the guy a chance!

McClaren game after game - I love this man, I want his babies

Today - Never been so positive about Derby since Jim Smith was in charge

Same never liked the guy, lets be honest he only got the job because of this name.

 

I liked McClaren and remeber telling people he may be a good was shouted down.

[cannable]

For me, he was only three tweaks of his own personal management style away from emulating McClaren's success.

1. Go for games. Make earlier substitutions and don't be afraid to throw a striker on.

2. Round pegs in round holes. Sacrificing balance for the big names is a no-no. That Burnley 3-0 game was a key example of this, we were crying out for Eustace.

3. Work on set pieces. We conceded a gross amount of goals from set pieces under him. The season before his last we went on like an 8 game run were we conceded at least once from a set piece. When Reading beat us 3-1 all of their goals came from a set piece. And Leicester, when they beat us.

In fact, I've just had a quick look, had we not conceded from any set pieces under Clough last season we'd have been 7 points better off (ignoring causality).

His tendency to promote from within rather than sign from within was a double-edged sword. When the injuries hit we tended to trough, however it was through this method that Hendrick, O'Brien etcetera.

Attacking wise, we were fine under him. We controlled games and scored goals for fun.

Seemingly though, he hasn't learned from his mistakes here, far too stubborn.

[ramblur]

I just wish we could all concentrate on the good things that Nigel and Steve have done/are doing for our club.As there seems to be general agreement on the latter,I'll concentrate on trying to find elements for the former that even the greatest Nigel begrudger might find hard to dispute.Although Will and Jeff may have been here when Nigel landed,he handled the difficult job of bringing through 2 young players pretty well,often standing by them when fans were questioning his inclusion of them in the team.If you then go on to look at elements of the current squad recruited by Nigel,then I'll use just one as an example.Anyone could have signed Chris Martin,but it was Clough who saw his strengths,just as his father had seen similar qualities in John O'Hare.The reason we can't find an understudy for Chris is probably because players of his type are few and far between.I don't think some appreciate just what skill and awareness levels are required to carry out his role.

[GeneralRam]

Clough rumoured to take over - Happy, hoping for a "written in the stars" success and ending.

 

Clough took over - Still happy.

 

Clough's first day in the job - Sat in the stands watching us against Man Utd. We won and I was ecstatic.

 

Clough in the job - Slow progress, could definitely pick a player but was getting increasingly frustrated with his tactics, lack of subs and players going on the "naughty step".

 

Clough sacked - Annoyed, we weren't doing that bad.

 

Tony Pulis linked - He'd definitely get the job done even if it's ugly.

 

Steve McClaren linked - Oh FFS.

 

McClaren took over - Great, we're going to get a bunch of 30+ has beens.

 

McClaren's Ipswich team talk - Wow!

 

Watford game where we made an attacking sub, scored last minute and won 3-2 - Wow! Turning point for Derby County and my optimism.

 

McClaren game after game - I love this man, I want his babies.

 

Today - Never been so positive about Derby since Jim Smith was in charge - Agreed.

[Jayram]

A very average manager who was a bit out of his depth at this level and who was sucking the life out of the club for me. Decent talent spotter with more good signings than bad but no idea how to utilise what he had. Was glad when he got sacked if a little surprised at the manner in which it happened but underwhelmed by the idea of Schteve taking over. However, he won me over with that second half against Ipswich - straightaway it was obvious that his tactical nous was light years ahead of Nigel's, and since then he, Eric and Simmo have taken us to a totally different level.

It's interesting to see that Nigel seems to be having the same effect on Sheffield Utd as he had on us - they win a few, lose a few, plod along in mid table and repeat.

I wish him well (genuinely) but I'm glad Steve is our man - the future is bright.

[Boycie]

He steadied the ship because he was given time, he was given time because he had to cut the wage bill.

He stayed longer than others would have because of his name.

Which in my opinion is why he got the job, the owners knew they would buy themselves time with Clough front of house.

True, the bonus was that he'd coached a team to virtual promotion to the non league holy grail on a shoe string budget.

But, I think at this period of his career as a coach had taken our fine lads ( who he'd brought ) as far as he could. I think the owners were frustrated that they knew the players were better than the results over a season inferred.