How big are Derby?

[SillyBilly]

Sorry is it just me who isn't buying this "hangover from worst prem season". The only people who I have known to mention it are a portion of fans who seem to want to use it to excuse our current stagnation. No fans of any other club around me (London and surrounds) even register Derby with worst prem. Most of them are surprised if I mention it. Why? Because we don't matter to them. When we talk about Derby it's generally them wondering why we're going nowhere and nothing is changing at the club.

We're talking about something that happened in 07/08 and its now the 13/14 season. It happened that long ago and yet still gets out out there as an excuse why we continue to be where we are. Nothing about our club, bar the fans and facilities, are the same.

I'm tired of reading this sort of thing and others too. The stuff on here that is spouted "Blackburn haven't win yet I know, but they will" what? What is their future form got to do with anything? We didn't play them in the future. "We scored just before half time, that was a problem" so are we the only team that suffers from this problem as usually it's "we conceded just before half time, that's always a bad time to concede". There's more but I could be here a while.

We are an average championship side due to having an average investment in players, an average manager and the majority of our players being average. No great mystery. It's not linked to events 6 years ago, there's no new gypsy curse. Mystery solved, stop looking for excuses.

 

I agree, only Forest care about that tag. Totally irrelevant apart from at a pub trivia quiz. I think the hangover excuse bought Clough about 3 years and a couple of complete squad overhauls.

[Jayram]

And of course some fairly dull supporters who only come out when they lose.

 

Well maybe so but they are matched in numbers by Clough lovers falling over themselves to make excuse after excuse for his shortcomings season after season when the reality is that if his surname was something else they'd be calling for his head.

The crowd figures don't lie - nearly 10,000 have stopped turning up at PP in the last couple of seasons - we are diminishing as a club because of the current regime in charge and the lack of proper investment/ambition.

[AndyinLiverpool]

Sorry is it just me who isn't buying this "hangover from worst prem season". 

 

 

No, it's not just you.

[Ghost of Clough]

Sorry is it just me who isn't buying this "hangover from worst prem season". The only people who I have known to mention it are a portion of fans who seem to want to use it to excuse our current stagnation. No fans of any other club around me (London and surrounds) even register Derby with worst prem. Most of them are surprised if I mention it. Why? Because we don't matter to them. When we talk about Derby it's generally them wondering why we're going nowhere and nothing is changing at the club.

We're talking about something that happened in 07/08 and its now the 13/14 season. It happened that long ago and yet still gets out out there as an excuse why we continue to be where we are. Nothing about our club, bar the fans and facilities, are the same.

I'm tired of reading this sort of thing and others too. The stuff on here that is spouted "Blackburn haven't win yet I know, but they will" what? What is their future form got to do with anything? We didn't play them in the future. "We scored just before half time, that was a problem" so are we the only team that suffers from this problem as usually it's "we conceded just before half time, that's always a bad time to concede". There's more but I could be here a while.

We are an average championship side due to having an average investment in players, an average manager and the majority of our players being average. No great mystery. It's not linked to events 6 years ago, there's no new gypsy curse. Mystery solved, stop looking for excuses.

Some of my friends in Newcastle bring it up time and time again

[G STAR RAM]

When we are doing well we are a big club because 10,000 extra fans appear and revel in telling everyone how great our club is.

When we are not doing well we are probably an average size club for the country.

On history we have a few things going our way but it's so long ago it's pretty irrelevant but it is still our history.

To not acknowledge that the Premier League season has contributed to a lack of investment and the associated cost cutting has led to us having to go back to square one is short sighted in my opinion.

As for the manager only being accepted for his surname I don't buy that either. Don't forget for most people under 40 the name Clough has only ever been associated with a Forest manager and striker.

[notts_ram]

We are an average championship side due to having an average investment in players, an average manager and the majority of our players being average. No great mystery. It's not linked to events 6 years ago, there's no new gypsy curse. Mystery solved, stop looking for excuses.

Unfortunately we have a far higher than average level of debt directly linked to our Premiership fiasco which still has a direct effect on our ability to source a better than average manager, better than average players etc.

[gcdcfc28]

Nigel Clough isn't average

He's won a mere 33% of the games here in almost FIVE years, id consider that to be below average personally.

The attendances are dropping like Helen Flanagans knickers and the players we currently bring in are cast offs no other sod wants (besides Celtic) or are very average players which will be sold for a jimmy krankie cap.

Big club we are.

On a plus side the clubs CEO is doing catwalks a week before the window shuts.

[G STAR RAM]

Nigel Clough isn't average

He's won a mere 33% of the games here in almost FIVE years, id consider that to be below average personally.

The attendances are dropping like Helen Flanagans knickers and the players we currently bring in are cast offs no other sod wants (besides Celtic) or are very average players which will be sold for a jimmy krankie cap.

Big club we are.

On a plus side the clubs CEO is doing catwalks a week before the window shuts.

And on another thread you are moaning that these 'cast offs' are worth more when being sold?

[WilkoRam]

Unfortunately we have a far higher than average level of debt directly linked to our Premiership fiasco which still has a direct effect on our ability to source a better than average manager, better than average players etc.

So we have more debt due to having the fewest points in the Prem ever 6 years ago? Did they charge us for the privilege? We'd have more money if we had finished with 16 points that season? I'd say our debt was more due to trying to buy our way straight back up under Jewell. Nothing to do with the record points low.

The notion that we had the worst season in prem history 6 years ago and we are still suffering the aftershock of this is, to be blunt, pathetic. Duracell (who originally posted the opinion that we are still suffering from it) even said that it's not an easy thing to get over but then mentioned Sunderland. So let's not forget that Sunderland, who had the unwelcome title before us, went straight back up as champions the following season. Duracell points out that they had 15 points though and we had 11. Now I had I check at this point that it wasn't a joke post. The idea is, therefore, that 4 points between their lowest points total and our lowest points is the difference between instant promotion back and still reeling from it 6 years later?

I'm tired of our own fans painting our club as some sort of poisoned chalice. It's not. It's a club being run as a championship club. It's not the worst job out there, Derby is a stable mid table champ club. There aren't loads of obstacles against us that other teams don't face or suffer from. There's not some dark cloud hovering over the club or anything like that. We are no different to most of the clubs in this league. To reiterate, we are where we should be as we are an average championship team. Please can we stop with the excuses. If the club invested more we could be finishing higher in the league and, and I know this will be hard for some to accept, but if Nigel was better we could be finishing higher in the league. Neither is the case so we are where we are.

[notts_ram]

So we have more debt due to having the fewest points in the Prem ever 6 years ago? Did they charge us for the privilege? We'd have more money if we had finished with 16 points that season? I'd say our debt was more due to trying to buy our way straight back up under Jewell. Nothing to do with the record points low.

 

Hear what you're saying fella but we are a million miles in hock still as we paid ridiculous sums of money for players we got nothing back on - £3 million for Claude Davis then released him for nothing stands out - and we also compounded this error by recruiting poor players on obscene salaries whom we could not shift for love not money after our relegation as they were so dire and they were quite happy to see their contracts out with no other club daft enough to match their wages. All of which happened as a direct result of us getting promoted to the Premiership.

[gcdcfc28]

And on another thread you are moaning that these 'cast offs' are worth more when being sold?

One player, out of how many?

[WilkoRam]

Hear what you're saying fella but we are a million miles in hock still as we paid ridiculous sums of money for players we got nothing back on - £3 million for Claude Davis then released him for nothing stands out - and we also compounded this error by recruiting poor players on obscene salaries whom we could not shift for love not money after our relegation as they were so dire and they were quite happy to see their contracts out with no other club daft enough to match their wages. All of which happened as a direct result of us getting promoted to the Premiership.

The argument that the Prem season in general has affected us isn't as absurd. The idea that the low points total is still affecting us is.

As for the money aspect. I thought we were pretty much a steady ship now are we not? We're not spending more or less than most Champ teams. There's some in this league with lots of money to spend but most are in the same boat so I still don't buy it. If we were in the situation that someone like Southend find themselves then I'd be with you, but we're not.

[sheeponacid]

I believe we are a mid to lower premier league team based on our fan base...but a mid table championship team based on our current transfer policy....I don't buy it that we are still paying for premier league disaster season,,,nor do I buy it that Nigel is doing a poor job, I do buy it though that he isn't allowed the budget from the owners to realistically compete for a top two finish..

[G STAR RAM]

One player, out of how many?

Not sure, depends how you decide who is a 'cast off that nobody else wants'.

Surely every time you sign a player they are someone's cast offs?

As far as I remember Russell, Keogh and Jacobs were all linked with other teams. Martin was recruited from a Premier League team and Grant was player of the year at a Championship team that could not afford to keep him. Who are the 'cast offs' you are referring to?

[gcdcfc28]

Craig Forsyth? He's wasn't wanted at Watford was he? They recalled him for the play offs and then couldn't wait to flog him.

Conor Sammon? Wigan laughed to the bank when we paid them double to what they plaid Killie. What did he do at Wigan? Besides get pushed behind the queue to the goal scoring sensational that is Franco Di Santo.

[G STAR RAM]

Craig Forsyth? He's wasn't wanted at Watford was he? They recalled him for the play offs and then couldn't wait to flog him.

Conor Sammon? Wigan laughed to the bank when we paid them double to what they plaid Killie. What did he do at Wigan? Besides get pushed behind the queue to the goal scoring sensational that is Franco Di Santo.

Not really sure what he did at Wigan but the fact that Martinez and Trappatoni have rated him at some point in the last few years holds more weight with me than your opinion when calling him a 'cast off'.

Forsyth is a poor example based on what Watford did last season. 'Couldn't wait to get rid of him'? I seem to remember the transfer dragging out as they wouldn't let him go at first.

[DesertRam]

Yes Derby are a big club ( Generalram  that would be my list as well)   we have history and competed as equals

with Man U  Liverpool Chelsea Arsenal etc  If we were to go up, and stay up, we have a sufficient enough fanbase to

keep us there.

 

If we had stayed up i in 07, spent money etc  we would have another tier of stands and getting on for 40000 now.

 

As for BD  I cant stand him - but you have to give praise when its due, and he can certainly motivate players. Wasn't 

given any money and knew we couldn't stay up - he didn't have to give up though, and hang the team out to

dry. So we ended up with a mid-table Champ side in the premier league - only one thing was going to happen.

 

But today's a new dawn, if we can actually get promoted, just hope somebody will spend enough to keep us there,

[gcdcfc28]

Permenant cast offs:

Sammon

Anderson

Lee Hendrie

Michael Boulding

Saul Deeney...

Loanees such as ; Kuqi, Lee Johnson, Dickov, Hunt, Sunu, Vidal, Noble.

None of those were really rated at there respective club and then later released.

Those are at the top of my head. Michael Boulding is my personal favourite of all of Cloughs signing.

Trapattoni also rates Simon Cox, does that mean he's good too then?

[rammieib]

Desertram - to say we would be getting 40,000 now is a comment that I would save for B4 to make. It really is laughable.

We would only be getting that if ticket prices were a tenner for every game.

[uttoxram75]

This thread about "How big are Derby" has been hijacked into a Nigel Clough debate. Going back to the original question, we are capable of maintaining a mid prem position. We are easily as big in terms of support as Fulham, West Brom, Stoke, Swansea, Norwich and the rest already mentioned.

 

When we return to the prem the missing fans will return, we'll get 30,000 in each week no problem. We'll fill away ends, people who go regularly now will miss out to the returning fans.

 

Twas ever the case.