Daaave Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 The Bucko fan club will inadvertantly keep us down in the Championship . Cloughie is one of them. We will IMO never get promoted with the defence on show yesterday. That's great, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that yesterday Keogh was absolutely atrocious and Buxton did virtually nothing wrong. I agree we need another CB to give some competition at very least but on yesterday's showing I certainly wouldn't be dropping Buxton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
networker1884 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 The Bucko fan club will inadvertantly keep us down in the Championship . Cloughie is one of them. We will IMO never get promoted with the defence on show yesterday. If we'd have had two Buxtons playing at CB yesterday we wouldn't have lost. imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I wasn't a fan of Buxton when he first came. He gave away penno's and players got round him easily but now i think he is one player that has improved over the time spent here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Both if we want to go places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Keogh for me, would sell him tomorrow if it meant Shack coming back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 m8 Shackell won't be coming back. So would you still sell Keogh. Yes, just to get someone in that is better. Of course I would - if someone came in with what we paid I'd bite their hand off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaave Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I agree Keogh was poor yesterday as well. I said with this defence IMO we will never get promoted. Yea but your assertion seemed to be that this was primarily due to Buxton which I think is unfair. As a unit the defence certainly needs looking at right now but for me Buxton has been more consistent than Keogh for a while. If Keogh can up his level to where it should be I think we can challenge around the top 6 with this defence but for that to happen I think we need some competition. Whether that's going to be adequately provided by OB and Barker coming back to fitness is another matter, personally I'd like another signing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaave Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 No need to apologise, it's all about opinions after all. Personally I feel he's been let down by his partner recently and unfairly judged by some parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 No need to apologise, it's all about opinions after all. Personally I feel he's been let down by his partner recently and unfairly judged by some parties. I watched Buxtons game quite closely yesterday, 2 mis-placed passes other than that distribution was good. Defensively didn't put a foot wrong and was his usual dominant self in the air. When you consider the strikers he has come up against so far I would find it hard to put forward an argument which supports the theory he is not a 'top 6' centre back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Do you rate barker? As he doesn't have any technique and is purely a stopper Barker is better the Buxton and Keogh but is still not the answer. If you play a traditional 'stopper' CB then his partner must be the brains and be able to play out from the back. IMO a good mixture in this league is a must. It also more important now as Grant is trying to play out from the back. If he is going to do this (which I love), then you have to have players comfortable receiving the ball. Keogh and Buxton are not those players. Just as an aside, I have never seen anyone with a technique like Keoghs, he looks so awkward when he plays the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 . But we are not a top 6 defence and that's down to positional play ie reading the game and personnel at the managers disposal. Watch Wes Morgan knocks spots off us Absolutely nothing wrong with Buxtons reading of the game, it has to be good to make up for his lack of speed. I thought Morgan was lucky to stay on the pitch yesterday, he consistently kept on going through the back of Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I have never seen anyone with a technique like Keoghs, he looks so awkward when he plays the ball. Indeed, it's the way he has to shape his entire body to make even the most simple pass, taking up half a second extra to do so and thus telegraphing to any quick witted oppositon players exactly what he's about to try, leading to riskier passes with more chance of interception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Indeed, it's the way he has to shape his entire body to make even the most simple pass, taking up half a second extra to do so and thus telegraphing to any quick witted oppositon players exactly what he's about to try, leading to riskier passes with more chance of interception. I made a comment on exactly the same point yesterday. He also seems to want to hit every pass at a ridiculous pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Martin was praised for winning so many free kicks against Brighton, yet he does exactly the same things that won him free kicks against Brighton in the Leicester game and gets criticised for it. It depends a lot on the ref. if you were going down easy intentionally and getting nothing though, you surely wouldn't continue doing it all match and hope for the best, you'd do your best to stay up. It's OK saying stay on your feet, but it's not always an option, especially with someone like Morgan at your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSheep Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Martin was praised for winning so many free kicks against Brighton, yet he does exactly the same things that won him free kicks against Brighton in the Leicester game and gets criticised for it. It depends a lot on the ref. if you were going down easy intentionally and getting nothing though, you surely wouldn't continue doing it all match and hope for the best, you'd do your best to stay up. It's OK saying stay on your feet, but it's not always an option, especially with someone like Morgan at your back.It just look likes he is constantly diving so the referee hardly gave us anything, don't blame him to be honest. A bit tedious that one player was constantly on the floor, not saying that every time he fell was a foul because it wasn't. Just quote a few of them he looked way to weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Got to disagree there.. 15 years ago, maybe but not nowadays, you have to be a footballer as well. Distribution and technique are a must.. Just getting in the way don't cut it anymore. Not at this level AngryRam, name me five defenders at THIS level who have that class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Not at this level AngryRam, name me five defenders at THIS level who have that class.errrrm....errrrrrm.......errrrrrm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Neither Keogh nor Buxton are top 6 CBs. They both have good and bad points but neither are totally dominant in one of those. If they were well organised and complimented each well then this would not be an issue. Buxton has improved and so far has been the better defender. Not sure what the solution is, but we need to do something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Neither Keogh nor Buxton are top 6 CBs. They both have good and bad points but neither are totally dominant in one of those. If they were well organised and complimented each well then this would not be an issue. Buxton has improved and so far has been the better defender. Not sure what the solution is, but we need to do something It's easy to say that, but nobody can name many stand out defenders at this level. Realistically, you should be able to name 12 central defenders who you'd rather have (two per top six team) if you are convinced that Buxton, or Keogh aren't as good as you'd like. You also have to remember (whichever poster mentioned it) that we had a player who had technique, composure and quality etc, and Clough hated him cos he never got booked. Albrechtsen had everything you would associate with being a top defender, but it didn't/doesn't work at THIS level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich3478 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Buxton is playing out of his skin, 100% effort and commitment and probably the best form of his career, yet still fails to convince many (myself included). Keogh has been in poor form for a few months now, I agree he was shocking yesterday but he has the potential to be far superior to Buxton. Maybe a new partner is what he needs find some form? It's not working between the two is it, and didn't particularly last season. Think we need reinforcements, waiting until January to see could potentially waste another season. Not sure Clough has many to waste anymore either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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