now here's a manager doing well....

[ramblur]

I only know David Nish from watching legends XI games at the Ramarena and Stockbrook Park as a kid in the 80s. Sorry, I don't know what you mean as I wasn't around.

After he signed he seemed to have difficulty adjusting and his confidence was shot (for ages).Brian kept faith with him even though he was losing us a lot of points.The fans couldn't believe what they were seeing and willed him to do well.He went on to become one of the finest full backs seen here.Brian was right-as he was with McGovern (who unfortunately didn't receive the same crowd sympathy).Sometimes managers are right and fans are wrong.

[mozza]

When David Nish continually made schoolboy errors over a long period of time,did Brian NEVER learn a single lesson?

 

 

I only know David Nish from watching legends XI games at the Ramarena and Stockbrook Park as a kid in the 80s. Sorry, I don't know what you mean as I wasn't around.

 

 

When Nishy arrived , he was a big fish at Leicester , at Derby , he was small fry

 

took a long while to settle in here , is what Ramblur is saying , mostyn..

[ramblur]

 We didn't Ramblur. That is what frustrates me so much about us at the moment and what we should be aiming for next season. We need a win at home against Bolton, the win away against Wednesday and at home. Trashing Forest home and away Blackburn win home and away. OHHH I'm getting carried away now. My point is there are games where we have lost points where next year we need to get them.

Well,if the current incumbents can't become more clinical,and if others don't step up and produce the goods,then we're going to have to buy one who can.That's when the fun starts.

[Gritstone Ram]

Well,if the current incumbents can't become more clinical,and if others don't step up and produce the goods,then we're going to have to buy one who can.That's when the fun starts.

Looks like we need to buy then.

[ramblur]

When Nishy arrived , he was a big fish at Leicester , at Derby , he was small fry

 

took a long while to settle in here , is what Ramblur is saying , mostyn..

Remember it like yesterday,mo55y.I couldn't believe how someone I knew to be a damn good player could perform so badly week in week out-and the schoolboy errors! I think today's crowd would have crucified the lad.

[Mostyn6]

After he signed he seemed to have difficulty adjusting and his confidence was shot (for ages).Brian kept faith with him even though he was losing us a lot of points.The fans couldn't believe what they were seeing and willed him to do well.He went on to become one of the finest full backs seen here.Brian was right-as he was with McGovern (who unfortunately didn't receive the same crowd sympathy).Sometimes managers are right and fans are wrong.

 

 

When Nishy arrived , he was a big fish at Leicester , at Derby , he was small fry

 

took a long while to settle in here , is what Ramblur is saying , mostyn..

 

 

Okay, I get it now. Although the game has changed a lot in the 40years since then. It's a squad game now, and more professional and sadly more ruthless. I think though, I may be right in thinking that Nish had at least proven he had the ability to do what had been asked of him, whereas someone like say Sammon has no proven experience of being able to do what the fans expect. Yes he may be doing what the manager wants, which begs the question, why are the manager and fans wanting different things, and if the fans aren't happy, why are they turning on the player (who isn't fit for purpose) instead of the manager. Personally I turn on neither at the match, my criticism is saved for places like this.

[ramblur]

Looks like we need to buy then.

Don't know what to make of Martin.I'd seen him play a few times before and the lad obviously had ability.His track record worries me though.I think he needs to realise that a football career whizzes by and he doesn't want to be left saddled with regrets at the end of it.

[ramblur]

Okay, I get it now. Although the game has changed a lot in the 40years since then. It's a squad game now, and more professional and sadly more ruthless. I think though, I may be right in thinking that Nish had at least proven he had the ability to do what had been asked of him, whereas someone like say Sammon has no proven experience of being able to do what the fans expect. Yes he may be doing what the manager wants, which begs the question, why are the manager and fans wanting different things, and if the fans aren't happy, why are they turning on the player (who isn't fit for purpose) instead of the manager. Personally I turn on neither at the match, my criticism is saved for places like this.

Squad game or not,there was nothing to stop Clough taking him out of the firing line.I don't think Martinez is a particularly bad judge of talent-he must have seen something there.With what I've seen over the years,I think I'll stick with the manager's judgement.I thought Danny Graham looked a good player for us,and I'm not just saying that now.I knew if he ever started scoring  

he'd be a decent player,because the rest of his game was excellent.

[Mostyn6]

Squad game or not,there was nothing to stop Clough taking him out of the firing line.I don't think Martinez is a particularly bad judge of talent-he must have seen something there.With what I've seen over the years,I think I'll stick with the manager's judgement.I thought Danny Graham looked a good player for us,and I'm not just saying that now.I knew if he ever started scoring  

he'd be a decent player,because the rest of his game was excellent.

 

 

Do you think we play the type of game that Sammon will thrive in?

 

He'll never win the fans over unless he scores, so thriving = scoring

[uttoxram75]

When Nishy arrived , he was a big fish at Leicester , at Derby , he was small fry

 

took a long while to settle in here , is what Ramblur is saying , mostyn..

Clough smashed the british transfer record for a defender when he signed Nish. Luckily he had Todd and McFarland looking after him.............

[ramblur]

Do you think we play the type of game that Sammon will thrive in?

 

He'll never win the fans over unless he scores, so thriving = scoring

I saw what he was capable of when he made a great run to take a disguised pass from Hughes to smash the ball in.I've also seen the remarkable things that shot confidence can do to a man.I've also seen the guts of a guy taking on a responsibility in the full knowledge that missing would probably see him crucified.

 

In the past calls of "Come on Dave" saved the day."Come on Conor" might not go amiss sometimes.Booing won't make his control any better.......and yes,I do think he could thrive in the type of game we play,if he gets some confidence.

[Ramshankered]

Hmmm well I've skimmed the thread and despite all that rubbish about Dowie, elements of Motstyn6's posts I agree with - I would say that based on resources Powell has achieved more than Clough.

Honestly for the majority of the last 4 years I've been behind Clough and have wanted to see him succeed, but in my opinion he's had enough time now. Relative to the resources he's had, I don't think it's too much to ask to at least be making a serious play off bid - especially after 4 years of shaping your team.

I'm sad to say it but I would actually like to see a change of manager now. It's silly to suggest no one can do a better a job - every year our team follows the same pattern under him, and to my mind its no longer a coincidence.

[midtableforever]

Booing won't make his control any better.......

I can't see a problem in WELL DESERVED booing. Clough bolloking his players after every other defeat why fans can't? I can understand theirs frustation. We cried out for decent striker for the last 3 years or so but Clough wasted 2m on this donkey. 

[Gritstone Ram]

Clough smashed the british transfer record for a defender when he signed Nish. Luckily he had Todd and McFarland looking after him.............

The clue is in your reply. 'smashed the british transfer record'. The current mr clough can not afford such luxuries.

[Gerry Daly]

I'm not sure I fancy Chris Powell as manager here. I have a lot of respect for him and I like him a lot as a person but I just don't see him as charismatic and inspiring. Then again is that necessary?

[Mostyn6]

I'm not sure I fancy Chris Powell as manager here. I have a lot of respect for him and I like him a lot as a person but I just don't see him as charismatic and inspiring. Then again is that necessary?

 

 

I often think I'd want someone with a lot of charisma and personality, I'd love someone bonkers like Holloway or Martin Allen (if they can perform) and perhaps Powell doesn't have that, but by god nor does Nigel! One thing Powell seems to have though is a level of respect from all corners. He's seeimingly admired and highly regarded in the football world and it wont be long before he's linked with a move to a big job.

[AndyB]

He had an excellent playing career, England squads, top division, showing great promise as a manager, widely respected throughout the game.

Same with Chris Powell.

[BOB BIGGS]

I'm not sure I fancy Chris Powell as manager here. I have a lot of respect for him and I like him a lot as a person but I just don't see him as charismatic and inspiring. Then again is that necessary?

I don't think he's done enough yet but I do hope he continues to do well. If that proves to be here at some future time, then even better. I'm afraid I do have to say that it's only a few months ago that a number of Charlton fans were wanting him out. I was surprised to read their comments.

 

So, it looks as though he is used to a certain amount of criticism. I'm sure that would come in very handy, probably quite quickly if he didn't do well in the first 6 games....

[Stive Pesley]

Don't be surprised to see Chris Powell go to Leicester if they fail to get promoted and sack Pearson (which it's odds on will happen given their uber-tough run-in)

[Asanovic]

Whichever way you dress it up, he had four years! Phil Brown had 8 months. John Gregory had about a year. Both of those had to work in worse situations that Nigel Clough and ANY/EVERY manager who takes over at a club has to generally do some amount of balancing and trading of players.

 

Four years. 

 

 

Exactly Mostyn.

 

Doesn't matter if you have four days or four years, or if you're Mourinho or Clough. If you don't have a squad good enough to get promoted, you're not going to get promoted. There are 15/16 teams each season that fancy their chances of getting in the top six each season. You can't blag it anymore. If you have a piece of wood, you won't turn it into metal in four years time.

 

Look at the top six. Save for Palace (who even then I think would have 6 or 7 players on more than our first teamers, and a manager I'd imagine on a massive whack more than ours) the rest have squads littered with high wages and high transfer fees. Look a little lower and you'll see teams like Leicester and Middlesbrough - teams with PL standard players (and I'd imagine wages) in their squad.

 

Look below us and you'll see teams that should probably be above us given their resources - Blackburn, Wolves, Birmingham, Burnley. Then there's us, nestled in midtable. We haven't spent £4m on a striker, we don't have a player on £20k per week, we don't have the means to take a PL striker on loan and pay half of his wages, and we can't compete financially with most of those above us.

 

So - what are you expecting we do? What is your main source of frustration?

 

It could be that Clough isn't adventurous enough - we could go gung ho every week trying to smash teams. The way I'd see that working is a young, inexperienced squad getting picked off and beaten a lot more than they beat teams. A bit like Peterborough. Happy to go forward but ultimately it will end badly.

 

So we have to find a way to get this squad performing, getting young players experience, and not getting beaten every week. Sometimes that will mean playing Bryson on the left, playing Hughes until he's worn out, playing Ward with a hamstring injury. We don't have that many options available.

 

But I suspect the real frustration is that you've known better times and you think we have a right to get those times back, and Clough is the nearest person in the line of fire. That's the only conclusion I can draw - and I understand that. It's boring at the moment, and it's a far cry from the football we were treated to in the late 90s. But it is where we are, and I don't see that chopping and changing manager will help. It might do, but give the current one a chance with some money, surely?

 

When we do have money to spend without having to offload anyone, that's the time I expect us to get teams by the throat and win matches regularly. Until then, it's unfair to expect much more than we're doing now.

 

If you remove any emotion and attachment for Derby/detachment from the Clough regime - it's absolutely crazy that people are moaning 'Clough has had 4 years' and we haven't been promoted. Just look at the squad of players we have.