now here's a manager doing well....

[Mostyn6]

Exactly Mostyn.

 

Doesn't matter if you have four days or four years, or if you're Mourinho or Clough. If you don't have a squad good enough to get promoted, you're not going to get promoted. There are 15/16 teams each season that fancy their chances of getting in the top six each season. You can't blag it anymore. If you have a piece of wood, you won't turn it into metal in four years time.

 

Look at the top six. Save for Palace (who even then I think would have 6 or 7 players on more than our first teamers, and a manager I'd imagine on a massive whack more than ours) the rest have squads littered with high wages and high transfer fees. Look a little lower and you'll see teams like Leicester and Middlesbrough - teams with PL standard players (and I'd imagine wages) in their squad.

 

Look below us and you'll see teams that should probably be above us given their resources - Blackburn, Wolves, Birmingham, Burnley. Then there's us, nestled in midtable. We haven't spent £4m on a striker, we don't have a player on £20k per week, we don't have the means to take a PL striker on loan and pay half of his wages, and we can't compete financially with most of those above us.

 

So - what are you expecting we do? What is your main source of frustration?

 

It could be that Clough isn't adventurous enough - we could go gung ho every week trying to smash teams. The way I'd see that working is a young, inexperienced squad getting picked off and beaten a lot more than they beat teams. A bit like Peterborough. Happy to go forward but ultimately it will end badly.

 

So we have to find a way to get this squad performing, getting young players experience, and not getting beaten every week. Sometimes that will mean playing Bryson on the left, playing Hughes until he's worn out, playing Ward with a hamstring injury. We don't have that many options available.

 

But I suspect the real frustration is that you've known better times and you think we have a right to get those times back, and Clough is the nearest person in the line of fire. That's the only conclusion I can draw - and I understand that. It's boring at the moment, and it's a far cry from the football we were treated to in the late 90s. But it is where we are, and I don't see that chopping and changing manager will help. It might do, but give the current one a chance with some money, surely?

 

When we do have money to spend without having to offload anyone, that's the time I expect us to get teams by the throat and win matches regularly. Until then, it's unfair to expect much more than we're doing now.

 

If you remove any emotion and attachment for Derby/detachment from the Clough regime - it's absolutely crazy that people are moaning 'Clough has had 4 years' and we haven't been promoted. Just look at the squad of players we have.

 

 

I have to respect your post above, it's well written and it makes sense, and if I was to disagree it would be based solely on my beliefs and opinions, I COULD bring facts to the table, but again, how we interpret the facts is purely subjective. Some will read it half full glass, other half empty glass if you know where I'm coming from.

 

I just disagree with you, I don't hate Clough, and truth be told, I'd rather him succeed than us go through another couple of managers to find the right one. I personally think that because I've come away from games thinking we've blown it, and on too many occasions, that I believe Clough hasn't got the best out of this side. Having seen Burley and Davies over-achieve and produce magic (breakinr records etc), I don't see Clough do anything other than motivate the side when playing Forest and Leeds, I just don't think it's enough. I don't think he's obsessed enough, I don't think he's devoted to football enough. I don't think it truly matters enough to him, and I don't think he'll do whatever it takes to achieve success, be that drop his star signing, sack a coach, change a formation, make a substitution or even hold his hand up and admit his own mistake.

[Asanovic]

I have to respect your post above, it's well written and it makes sense, and if I was to disagree it would be based solely on my beliefs and opinions, I COULD bring facts to the table, but again, how we interpret the facts is purely subjective. Some will read it half full glass, other half empty glass if you know where I'm coming from.

 

I just disagree with you, I don't hate Clough, and truth be told, I'd rather him succeed than us go through another couple of managers to find the right one. I personally think that because I've come away from games thinking we've blown it, and on too many occasions, that I believe Clough hasn't got the best out of this side. Having seen Burley and Davies over-achieve and produce magic (breakinr records etc), I don't see Clough do anything other than motivate the side when playing Forest and Leeds, I just don't think it's enough. I don't think he's obsessed enough, I don't think he's devoted to football enough. I don't think it truly matters enough to him, and I don't think he'll do whatever it takes to achieve success, be that drop his star signing, sack a coach, change a formation, make a substitution or even hold his hand up and admit his own mistake.

 

I do acknowledge you're a supporter, and not purely a Clough basher (same as I'm a supporter, and not purely a Clough lover), so I do respect your posts.

 

People talk about the Burley era being great and it was, but ultimately we didn't get promoted - that's what people want.

 

For what it's worth, to go to your original post - I would have Powell at Derby now, no question.

[Jayram]

Exactly Mostyn.

 

Doesn't matter if you have four days or four years, or if you're Mourinho or Clough. If you don't have a squad good enough to get promoted, you're not going to get promoted. There are 15/16 teams each season that fancy their chances of getting in the top six each season. You can't blag it anymore. If you have a piece of wood, you won't turn it into metal in four years time.

 

Look at the top six. Save for Palace (who even then I think would have 6 or 7 players on more than our first teamers, and a manager I'd imagine on a massive whack more than ours) the rest have squads littered with high wages and high transfer fees. Look a little lower and you'll see teams like Leicester and Middlesbrough - teams with PL standard players (and I'd imagine wages) in their squad.

 

Look below us and you'll see teams that should probably be above us given their resources - Blackburn, Wolves, Birmingham, Burnley. Then there's us, nestled in midtable. We haven't spent £4m on a striker, we don't have a player on £20k per week, we don't have the means to take a PL striker on loan and pay half of his wages, and we can't compete financially with most of those above us.

 

So - what are you expecting we do? What is your main source of frustration?

 

It could be that Clough isn't adventurous enough - we could go gung ho every week trying to smash teams. The way I'd see that working is a young, inexperienced squad getting picked off and beaten a lot more than they beat teams. A bit like Peterborough. Happy to go forward but ultimately it will end badly.

 

So we have to find a way to get this squad performing, getting young players experience, and not getting beaten every week. Sometimes that will mean playing Bryson on the left, playing Hughes until he's worn out, playing Ward with a hamstring injury. We don't have that many options available.

 

But I suspect the real frustration is that you've known better times and you think we have a right to get those times back, and Clough is the nearest person in the line of fire. That's the only conclusion I can draw - and I understand that. It's boring at the moment, and it's a far cry from the football we were treated to in the late 90s. But it is where we are, and I don't see that chopping and changing manager will help. It might do, but give the current one a chance with some money, surely?

 

When we do have money to spend without having to offload anyone, that's the time I expect us to get teams by the throat and win matches regularly. Until then, it's unfair to expect much more than we're doing now.

 

If you remove any emotion and attachment for Derby/detachment from the Clough regime - it's absolutely crazy that people are moaning 'Clough has had 4 years' and we haven't been promoted. Just look at the squad of players we have.

 

 

This is a very well argued and well written post but it isn't enough to convince me that Clough deserves to be continually given time. What I think is missing these days is any real sense of hope, any belief that we are going in the right direction. I know Clough had a hell of a job when he took over, and he has steadied things, but for me that is all he has to offer. He is a dull, 'meat and potatoes' type manager who will not take us to the next level. Frankly he (and the board) have drained all my enthusiasm and enjoyment from supporting Derby. I don't look forward to games, I don't expect us to go on a winning streak, I don't get excited at the thought of potential transfers. Its all just mindnumbing stagnant, season after season.

Football should be an entertaining enjoyable pastime, but right now I couldn't really care less about it. I don't honestly see myself travelling up to PP again until Clough has gone, and that makes me feel really sad.

[Asanovic]

This is a very well argued and well written post but it isn't enough to convince me that Clough deserves to be continually given time. What I think is missing these days is any real sense of hope, any belief that we are going in the right direction. I know Clough had a hell of a job when he took over, and he has steadied things, but for me that is all he has to offer. He is a dull, 'meat and potatoes' type manager who will not take us to the next level. Frankly he (and the board) have drained all my enthusiasm and enjoyment from supporting Derby. I don't look forward to games, I don't expect us to go on a winning streak, I don't get excited at the thought of potential transfers. Its all just mindnumbing stagnant, season after season.

Football should be an entertaining enjoyable pastime, but right now I couldn't really care less about it. I don't honestly see myself travelling up to PP again until Clough has gone, and that makes me feel really sad.

 

I agree with lots of this post - I'm lacking in enthusiasm, and getting the train up for matches is becoming a grind.

 

But our reasons are different. Mine is that the club won't spend the money to build a good team. Yours is your frustration at the way the current team is being managed.

 

I can't see anything other than stagnation without significant investment, no matter who the manager is.

[Duracell]

I agree with lots of this post - I'm lacking in enthusiasm, and getting the train up for matches is becoming a grind.

 

But our reasons are different. Mine is that the club won't spend the money to build a good team. Yours is your frustration at the way the current team is being managed.

 

I can't see anything other than stagnation without significant investment, no matter who the manager is.

I'm losing interest too. I don't see what value my support brings to the team and I'm not enjoying the matches anymore. The three points won't add up to anything serious and even the defeats are meaningless because we won't go down. Comfortably numb.

 

Not sure what I want any more or if it's anyone's fault. With all the boredom and mediocrity at present though, I can't help but think I'd want a charismatic leader to add some interest and to galvanise someone or something to make something happen. Even just to make the post-match interviews interesting. I just don't care about what Clough wants to say.

 

But that's a pathetic excuse to want a manager gone in all honesty. So he can stay. Woooo.

[notts_ram]

Is all about expectations, I see that Mowbray at Boro is saying he won't resign after winning only 2 games this year and being 6 points off the relegation places, Boro are actually 10th in the table, 3 places above us yet I don't see Clough coming on and saying he won't quit, defending the job he is doing. Do Boro have a radically better squad then we do? My opinion is not, yet why is Mowbray under pressure and Clough isn't?

[curb]

The difference when Burley was manager though is that we thought we could go up, and we weren't afraid of what might happen when we get there.

With Clough, even if we were 20 points clear in January I still wouldn't be expecting us to go up because we know the inevitable crash is just round the corner, and I'm pretty certain if we did go up Clough wouldn't be able to manage the players required to keep us there.

[Bris Vegas]

Clough is given alot of backing and I don't follow the reasons why we should blindly stick with him in the hope it might turn out good..

 

Clough has never managed to get a football league team looking like it could finish in the top 6, let alone promoted..

 

It's like sticking a bet on a guy that's constantly finished 25th in the US Golf Masters every year and expecting him to all of a sudden make the massive leap forward and finish in the top 3.

[Asanovic]

Clough is given alot of backing and I don't follow the reasons why we should blindly stick with him in the hope it might turn out good..

 

Clough has never managed to get a football league team looking like it could finish in the top 6, let alone promoted..

 

It's like sticking a bet on a guy that's constantly finished 25th in the US Golf Masters every year and expecting him to all of a sudden make the massive leap forward and finish in the top 3.

 

 

Give the guy the training and the clubs to do well though, and who knows how he'll do...

 

And that's always been my argument. I'm not saying blindly back him, stick with him. I'm saying give him just one season where we don't need to sell anyone in order to add to the squad, and make some money available. If it goes wrong, I'll be the first to call for change.

 

Working in these circumstances won't bring out the best in any manager, which is why I doubt it'd be an attractive gig to someone with a bigger reputation.

[Mostyn6]

Is all about expectations, I see that Mowbray at Boro is saying he won't resign after winning only 2 games this year and being 6 points off the relegation places, Boro are actually 10th in the table, 3 places above us yet I don't see Clough coming on and saying he won't quit, defending the job he is doing. Do Boro have a radically better squad then we do? My opinion is not, yet why is Mowbray under pressure and Clough isn't?

 

 

Clough is/was in the comfort zone. Knowing his name will keep the majority of fans onside.

[WestLondonRam]

Mostyn,

It's not his name. He has done the task which has been set to him since his arrival. I feel your pain and boredom and feel the same way as you but I think Nigel has 1 more season to show what  he can do. We have been told that we are getting the investment and players needed.

Now if we don't sell anyone who we can't do without we have a chance with the investment to make a playoff charge or automatic promotion next season.

If we do not make it next season I will say enough is enough, Time for the manager to go and see what happens the following season.

Being fair though if he is not given a chance with the investment promised then he hasn't been given a fair crack at the whip.

we all wan't the same thing here, good, exciting football which will light up the stands. I think we are not far off it with a sslight investment.

 

Clough is/was in the comfort zone. Knowing his name will keep the majority of fans onside.

[Mostyn6]

Mostyn,

It's not his name. He has done the task which has been set to him since his arrival. I feel your pain and boredom and feel the same way as you but I think Nigel has 1 more season to show what  he can do. We have been told that we are getting the investment and players needed.

Now if we don't sell anyone who we can't do without we have a chance with the investment to make a playoff charge or automatic promotion next season.

If we do not make it next season I will say enough is enough, Time for the manager to go and see what happens the following season.

Being fair though if he is not given a chance with the investment promised then he hasn't been given a fair crack at the whip.

we all wan't the same thing here, good, exciting football which will light up the stands. I think we are not far off it with a sslight investment.

 

assuming he doesn't go any buy a few Connor Sammons.