Gritstone Ram Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 I dont thnk we are playng as well as some are suggesting. People have noted how Ward, Coutts, Bryson, and hughes have lost a bit of sparkle. Sammons form is well documented. The keeper and the centre backs have been criticised. V Forest was totally forgettable for example. We seemed unable to rise to the occasion. We have 1 win in 11 games. There is some way to go before i would describe it as playing 'well'. It may not be terrible or poor . It might even be ok-ish. But it isnt as good as some suggest. Is it?No it isn't but teams pushing for promotion scrape wins out of these poor performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 No it isn't but teams pushing for promotion scrape wins out of these poor performances. Whilst I think we're playing better than Ramnut suggested, we could easily have been 4-0 down at Watford at HT, 3-0 down at home to Palace, Brighton should have been out of sight before we pulled one back.... I do think abit of luck has helped us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilkoRam Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 We've had a share of good luck and bad luck. We're not a lucky team or an unlucky one. You don't end the season in a position based on luck. Where we finish will be down to how we played etc not luck. As for the sub argument. Well Nigel himself moaned about only being able to name 5 subs when it came in citing the lack of opportunity for youngsters and although I agree that we may have had a full bench should the kids not be up against Chelsea, we do have a number of players out on loan, then moan we have a 'chronic' injury crisis (my definition of chronic is somewhat different to others) and a small squad. When we don't we just use the same players (least amount used by any club in the Chanpionship) loan out the rest and when we then get injuries we appear weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Whilst I think we're playing better than Ramnut suggested, we could easily have been 4-0 down at Watford at HT, 3-0 down at home to Palace, Brighton should have been out of sight before we pulled one back.... I do think abit of luck has helped us. Don't you think that it could be argued the other way as well, in that with a bit more luck in other games we could have had more goals? That is football, you get nothing for a close miss or a great save. I am happy with the quality of football that we are playing as it is as good as any other side that I have seen in the Championship this season. We do need to reduce the individual mistakes that are giving away goals though. We also suffer through having a fairly young team without the nous that the experienced pros can use to close a game down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 keogh - defender - FIT!!!! barker - defender (long term) brayford - def FIT consistently ( then injured last week) roberts - defender FIT (then 3 game suspension) o'connor - defender (6 weeks?) buxton - defender (6 weeks?) o'brien - defender (6 weeks) freeman - defender (2 appearances taken off injured) Hogansen - defender (2 appearances taken off injured) gjokaj - defender FIT consistently (one start) then on top of that we have naylor - I'm not joking he was so bad against Chesterfield and Ssausagehorpe that I don't class him as a first team squad member Josh Lelan - trainee - once on the bench jamie hanson - trainee - twice on the bench. So out of 13 listed defenders, 7 of which have real first team experience, there was a point when 8 of them were out injured or suspended at the same time. If that's not chronic then I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuitYourJibbaJivin Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 We've had a share of good luck and bad luck. We're not a lucky team or an unlucky one. You don't end the season in a position based on luck. Where we finish will be down to how we played etc not luck. As for the sub argument. Well Nigel himself moaned about only being able to name 5 subs when it came in citing the lack of opportunity for youngsters and although I agree that we may have had a full bench should the kids not be up against Chelsea, we do have a number of players out on loan, then moan we have a 'chronic' injury crisis (my definition of chronic is somewhat different to others) and a small squad. When we don't we just use the same players (least amount used by any club in the Chanpionship) loan out the rest and when we then get injuries we appear weak. Your Right, Nigel did campaign for the subs to go back up to 7 top give the youngsters a chance, and hes filled the bench in all of our Championship games this season. We've Hanson & Lelan getting on the bench just recently.........but like has been said the young lads have a very important game on Friday night. Why drag 2 kids to Cardiff and back just to fill up 2 slots on the bench when in stark reality they would have never made it on the pitch anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeponacid Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Was just wondering about the old saying "a good team can win when playing badly" or summat along them lines.... is it the reverse when a team can so often play well but lose...???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Was just wondering about the old saying "a good team can win when playing badly" or summat along them lines.... is it the reverse when a team can so often play well but lose...???????? Yeh but we haven't played that well over the past 8 games. Now if we had ground out a few wins out of those matches it would be a completly different picture. That is why i say, a team that is pushing for promotion wins games when they play bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I find it funny those that criticise Troy for bringing up our relegation prospects yet were also so eager to dismiss my comments when I said we had next to no chance of making the playoffs.. Make yer mind up folks.. Which is it? Truth is.. We're about as midtable as you can get.. I can't believe a side can be in 10th position, go on to win only 2 of the next 14 and only drop 2 places to 12th.. How feckin dire must the rest of the league be if that's the case.. There never was any chance of us going up or down after around 25 games this season.. Such an uneventful season played with patches of good football but the majority extremely mediocre from a bunch of mediocre players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Which is what? Only b4 expected the play offs.And even he didn't really, he just can't help himself. And no-one seriously expects relegation - especially now Albert has proved that it is mathematically improbable unless the rest play snookers. We are disappointed to be enjoying a slump. But Don't keep depressing us by saying we're average. We know that. We were just hoping that we weren't. I prefer the old days when you used to talk about mexican women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Which is what? Only b4 expected the play offs.And even he didn't really, he just can't help himself. And no-one seriously expects relegation - especially now Albert has proved that it is mathematically improbable unless the rest play snookers. We are disappointed to be enjoying a slump. But Don't keep depressing us by saying we're average. We know that. We were just hoping that we weren't. I prefer the old days when you used to talk about mexican women. No-one said they expected the playoffs you're right.. But when I claimed it was mathematically improbable saying that we had to go on a miracle run I was slated left right and center... Yet now it's practically the same but with relegation.. Yet people are slating Troy for even suggestiong it's possible.. So what is it? Is it mathematically improbable that either could happen or is it a simple case of always trying to rubbish the option which suggests that Derby aren't that great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 No-one said they expected the playoffs you're right.. But when I claimed it was mathematically improbable saying that we had to go on a miracle run I was slated left right and center... Yet now it's practically the same but with relegation.. Yet people are slating Troy for even suggestiong it's possible.. So what is it? Is it mathematically improbable that either could happen or is it a simple case of always trying to rubbish the option which suggests that Derby aren't that great?Before when you were saying that it was improbable that we'd make the playoffs, we were talking about a situation of ~5-10% chance that we could do it, we're now talking about the range of 0.01% that we'd go down, so there is a bit of a difference there. As it stands, the chances of us going down are similar to the chances of us somehow making the playoffs, and from just a results point of view, they are equally silly prospects (winning the last 10, or 9 out of 10 in comparison to losing the last 10). In fact, arguably, from the results point of view the playoffs are more realistic than relegation as 10 wins would almost certainly guarantee the playoffs (only one case in the last 15 seasons where it wouldn't), where as in 4 out of the last 15 seasons we'd survive even if we lost the last ten.So no, it's not the same as before by any stretch. Suggesting that we have a chance of relegation now is as silly as suggesting that we still have a shot at the playoffs. It could happen, there is a finite chance it could happen, it is just so small that it's not even worth mentioning at this point. To put in perspective how unlikely it is to see us go down at this point, flip a coin 13 times. The chances of us getting relegated are in the same ballpark as the chances of that coin landing the same side up all 13 times. So yeah, it's not about rubbishing the option which suggests Derby aren't great, it really is about rubbish silly options, much the same way that if someone came out with a "playoffs are still possible thread" now that I'd happily explain why they are not in any realistic manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 No-one said they expected the playoffs you're right.. But when I claimed it was mathematically improbable saying that we had to go on a miracle run I was slated left right and center... Yet now it's practically the same but with relegation.. Yet people are slating Troy for even suggestiong it's possible.. So what is it? Is it mathematically improbable that either could happen or is it a simple case of always trying to rubbish the option which suggests that Derby aren't that great? When you was saying this though Forest were probably 4 points behind us and look where they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 No-one said they expected the playoffs you're right.. But when I claimed it was mathematically improbable saying that we had to go on a miracle run I was slated left right and center... Yet now it's practically the same but with relegation.. Yet people are slating Troy for even suggestiong it's possible.. So what is it? Is it mathematically improbable that either could happen or is it a simple case of always trying to rubbish the option which suggests that Derby aren't that great? your argument was it was improbable wed make the play offs because of the run we would need to reach the play off total in terms of relegation is it likely that all but 2 teams will make the run required to reach 50 points. Looking at points picked up in the last 8 by teams below us it is improbable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I find it funny those that criticise Troy for bringing up our relegation prospects yet were also so eager to dismiss my comments when I said we had next to no chance of making the playoffs.. Make yer mind up folks.. Which is it? Truth is.. We're about as midtable as you can get.. I can't believe a side can be in 10th position, go on to win only 2 of the next 14 and only drop 2 places to 12th.. How feckin dire must the rest of the league be if that's the case.. There never was any chance of us going up or down after around 25 games this season.. Such an uneventful season played with patches of good football but the majority extremely mediocre from a bunch of mediocre players. Why is not agreeing with Troy criticising him? Did you really get slated? Are we not a tad sensitive just because one or two don't agree with you? Bris, when you stated that there was no chance of promotion hardly anyone (possibly no one!) disagreed with you. One or two pointed out it was a possibility and that other clubs had done it in past years from a similar position but without saying they felt Derby would....... Like ramnut says, i can't actually remember anyone saying we would get promoted other than in jest (or B4!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCPhoenix Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 No win seven, people can say we are playing well but football is a results game, you don't get points for playing well we get points for winning. Now to win you generally have to score more than the other team, and to do that you need these guys called strikers, who need to score goals, and it is generally considered bad paying a lot of money for an average striker who doesn't score many goals, because where are the goals going to come from? Also to not concede you need this thing called a defense, whose job it is to stop the opposition from scoring, now if you're defense is Mainly compromised of young boys who wouldn't get a game in any other team, and a £1 million flop you are going to concede. Football counts on RESULTS, if you don't win, you don't get anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 No win seven, people can say we are playing well but football is a results game, you don't get points for playing well we get points for winning. Now to win you generally have to score more than the other team, and to do that you need these guys called strikers, who need to score goals, and it is generally considered bad paying a lot of money for an average striker who doesn't score many goals, because where are the goals going to come from? Also to not concede you need this thing called a defense, whose job it is to stop the opposition from scoring, now if you're defense is Mainly compromised of young boys who wouldn't get a game in any other team, and a £1 million flop you are going to concede. Football counts on RESULTS, if you don't win, you don't get anywhere. wow, i didn't know what strikers and defenders were until reading that! thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCPhoenix Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 wow, i didn't know what strikers and defenders were until reading that! thanks for sharing The point is that people keep with the 'long term project vision' when we haven't really Improved in the league, I've been going to Derby for 35 years and I've easily spent over £3000 following my club, maybe even more, when you've been going those one, and you see the club you love hanging around the mid to bottom of the championship for four years you get a little disillusioned with where the club is going. This period now is worse than when we were in the third division, at least then we were competitive, you cannot defend not winning in 7 since away form is so terrible we have to be almost perfect at home. There is absolutely no excuse for this form. If Clough was a different name he would have been gone, if we had a half reasonable and ambitious board they would have sacked him 2 years ago to push for the premeir league like they originally said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 The point is that people keep with the 'long term project vision' when we haven't really Improved in the league, I've been going to Derby for 35 years and I've easily spent over £3000 following my club, maybe even more, when you've been going those one, and you see the club you love hanging around the mid to bottom of the championship for four years you get a little disillusioned with where the club is going. This period now is worse than when we were in the third division, at least then we were competitive, you cannot defend not winning in 7 since away form is so terrible we have to be almost perfect at home. There is absolutely no excuse for this form. If Clough was a different name he would have been gone, if we had a half reasonable and ambitious board they would have sacked him 2 years ago to push for the premeir league like they originally said. really? since clough took over we've not improved in the league? well ok then... yes the results have been poor and occasionally so have the performances. but a lot of the time we've been the better side and have been desperately unlucky (palace) or its individual mistakes not to mention the rather large injury list we have for our defence. we keep playing how we are and the results will eventually come. you don't know whether clough would be here at all if his surname was smith so don't bother using that argument. the long term vision is by the looks of things, is build from the academy hence why we're seeing a lot of young players and these players will make mistakes because of their lack of experience again through more game time they'll learn from mistakes and improve, but if you want the board to go out and buy a shed load of players and **** up all the work with the academy then fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Truth is.. We're about as midtable as you can get.. I can't believe a side can be in 10th position, go on to win only 2 of the next 14 and only drop 2 places to 12th.. How feckin dire must the rest of the league be if that's the case.. Why does that make the rest of the league dire? It says nothing about the teams above us.All it tells me is that we must be a lot better than most of the teams below us in order to roughly maintain our position on the back of a bad run. An even league doesn't have to signify a bad league-it could be bad,mediocre,good,or even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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