rammieib

1) Agreed
2) From a business perspective, I believe the Championship will be worth an extra £7-10m in revenue. Of course our costs go up but who doesn't want this. 
I'd also suggest - we stay down, Bird is already gone, I am sure Cashin will move on (We just get a decent fee) so what will we be left with? Our better ball playing players will have left (Bird, Cashin, Hourihane), a manager playing lump it football, a depleted squad size, a manager who seems to struggle to attract good attacking players (Which attacking players has he bought in who are a success - even Wilson for all his skill doesn't contribute much in goals/assists). It's a disaster waiting to happen under Warne.

Sensible post - so I'll pick it apart a little.
We are second because other teams are atrocious. We have the highest wage bill by a long way - of course that doesn't guarantee success but I do believe we have a number of very good player - its the way they are being told to execute their jobs which is the issue for me.
5 at the back - we struggle to create. 3 Centre backs, two wing backs who often become full backs and two holding midfielders - this is a recipe for not creating - as we have seen multiple times now.
So what/how has Wildsmith been coached by Andy Warrington. Surely after the debacle at Oxford, Wildsmith would have received coaching on what to do in that situation? So poor decision by Wildsmith especially as he delayed his coming out but not being coached very well is he.
Second goal - the pass form Wilson was poor - he gunned it to Ebou Adams but it was not on the ground. why as a team do we seem to put so much focus on getting the direction of the pass correct that anything over 15 yards seems to be a few bounces. Watch Man City play, watch Arsenal, watch Brighton - when they pass to each other the ball stays on the deck. This means the receiving player can control it immediately or make a first time pass more successfully. Wilson hammered it to Adams off the deck. So poor coaching for me again - not to mention the fact that Wilson went backwards. However - I don't have such an issue with that. However - Can you tell me how many times our players actually move into space? They don't - we're static as anything. This is one of the big changes to NML's game - he wants the ball to feet every time - a defender isn't worried about him (or literally anyone) on our team making a run into space.
I'm sorry - our football has been shambolic for most of the season. We win games IMO because we generally have better players who are able to pull bits of magic out and thus deliver - NML being a prime example. Worth noting that the top five contributing players offensively this year are all Rosenoir signings/Academy. (NML, CH, JC, MB and TB). Warne hasn't bought in, as yet, an offensive player able to make any impact in this team. I trust CBT will come good though.
My final point on the coaching (away from the head tennis) - literally how dated and old school is the tactic of when we get a set piece anywhere from about 20 yards inside our half, the tactic is literally put everyone up to their box and just chip a high ball in. That's park football stuff. I cannot remember that being anywhere near successful in goals we have scored this season. I genuinely thought I'd seen a change after Stevenage away - next game goal kicks were being taken short, same with free kicks - CH, MB, NML, EC, CN - they were all allowed to 'play football' - and then we started winning - but now, this has gone out of the window again - and not once did I see Warne last night telling the team to keep the ball on the deck.
if we scrape over the finish line, I'll be amazed but grateful - but with Warne there and his limited repertoire of coaching - we're screwed next season whichever league we are in.

Precisely.
If they closed their eyes they couldn’t find opponents so unerringly.
All power, no precision. This is what contributes to scrappy football.
Little wonder our midfield struggles. They are either trying to control a ball fired at them or indeed to watch a ball fly over them.
 

Sensible post - so I'll pick it apart a little.
We are second because other teams are atrocious. We have the highest wage bill by a long way - of course that doesn't guarantee success but I do believe we have a number of very good player - its the way they are being told to execute their jobs which is the issue for me.
5 at the back - we struggle to create. 3 Centre backs, two wing backs who often become full backs and two holding midfielders - this is a recipe for not creating - as we have seen multiple times now.
So what/how has Wildsmith been coached by Andy Warrington. Surely after the debacle at Oxford, Wildsmith would have received coaching on what to do in that situation? So poor decision by Wildsmith especially as he delayed his coming out but not being coached very well is he.
Second goal - the pass form Wilson was poor - he gunned it to Ebou Adams but it was not on the ground. why as a team do we seem to put so much focus on getting the direction of the pass correct that anything over 15 yards seems to be a few bounces. Watch Man City play, watch Arsenal, watch Brighton - when they pass to each other the ball stays on the deck. This means the receiving player can control it immediately or make a first time pass more successfully. Wilson hammered it to Adams off the deck. So poor coaching for me again - not to mention the fact that Wilson went backwards. However - I don't have such an issue with that. However - Can you tell me how many times our players actually move into space? They don't - we're static as anything. This is one of the big changes to NML's game - he wants the ball to feet every time - a defender isn't worried about him (or literally anyone) on our team making a run into space.
I'm sorry - our football has been shambolic for most of the season. We win games IMO because we generally have better players who are able to pull bits of magic out and thus deliver - NML being a prime example. Worth noting that the top five contributing players offensively this year are all Rosenoir signings/Academy. (NML, CH, JC, MB and TB). Warne hasn't bought in, as yet, an offensive player able to make any impact in this team. I trust CBT will come good though.
My final point on the coaching (away from the head tennis) - literally how dated and old school is the tactic of when we get a set piece anywhere from about 20 yards inside our half, the tactic is literally put everyone up to their box and just chip a high ball in. That's park football stuff. I cannot remember that being anywhere near successful in goals we have scored this season. I genuinely thought I'd seen a change after Stevenage away - next game goal kicks were being taken short, same with free kicks - CH, MB, NML, EC, CN - they were all allowed to 'play football' - and then we started winning - but now, this has gone out of the window again - and not once did I see Warne last night telling the team to keep the ball on the deck.
if we scrape over the finish line, I'll be amazed but grateful - but with Warne there and his limited repertoire of coaching - we're screwed next season whichever league we are in.

1) Agreed
2) From a business perspective, I believe the Championship will be worth an extra £7-10m in revenue. Of course our costs go up but who doesn't want this. 
I'd also suggest - we stay down, Bird is already gone, I am sure Cashin will move on (We just get a decent fee) so what will we be left with? Our better ball playing players will have left (Bird, Cashin, Hourihane), a manager playing lump it football, a depleted squad size, a manager who seems to struggle to attract good attacking players (Which attacking players has he bought in who are a success - even Wilson for all his skill doesn't contribute much in goals/assists). It's a disaster waiting to happen under Warne.

Much wrong? Wow.
We'd had three shots at half time. We had played head tennis for much of the first half. I think everything was wrong.

1) Agreed
2) From a business perspective, I believe the Championship will be worth an extra £7-10m in revenue. Of course our costs go up but who doesn't want this. 
I'd also suggest - we stay down, Bird is already gone, I am sure Cashin will move on (We just get a decent fee) so what will we be left with? Our better ball playing players will have left (Bird, Cashin, Hourihane), a manager playing lump it football, a depleted squad size, a manager who seems to struggle to attract good attacking players (Which attacking players has he bought in who are a success - even Wilson for all his skill doesn't contribute much in goals/assists). It's a disaster waiting to happen under Warne.

Sensible post - so I'll pick it apart a little.
We are second because other teams are atrocious. We have the highest wage bill by a long way - of course that doesn't guarantee success but I do believe we have a number of very good player - its the way they are being told to execute their jobs which is the issue for me.
5 at the back - we struggle to create. 3 Centre backs, two wing backs who often become full backs and two holding midfielders - this is a recipe for not creating - as we have seen multiple times now.
So what/how has Wildsmith been coached by Andy Warrington. Surely after the debacle at Oxford, Wildsmith would have received coaching on what to do in that situation? So poor decision by Wildsmith especially as he delayed his coming out but not being coached very well is he.
Second goal - the pass form Wilson was poor - he gunned it to Ebou Adams but it was not on the ground. why as a team do we seem to put so much focus on getting the direction of the pass correct that anything over 15 yards seems to be a few bounces. Watch Man City play, watch Arsenal, watch Brighton - when they pass to each other the ball stays on the deck. This means the receiving player can control it immediately or make a first time pass more successfully. Wilson hammered it to Adams off the deck. So poor coaching for me again - not to mention the fact that Wilson went backwards. However - I don't have such an issue with that. However - Can you tell me how many times our players actually move into space? They don't - we're static as anything. This is one of the big changes to NML's game - he wants the ball to feet every time - a defender isn't worried about him (or literally anyone) on our team making a run into space.
I'm sorry - our football has been shambolic for most of the season. We win games IMO because we generally have better players who are able to pull bits of magic out and thus deliver - NML being a prime example. Worth noting that the top five contributing players offensively this year are all Rosenoir signings/Academy. (NML, CH, JC, MB and TB). Warne hasn't bought in, as yet, an offensive player able to make any impact in this team. I trust CBT will come good though.
My final point on the coaching (away from the head tennis) - literally how dated and old school is the tactic of when we get a set piece anywhere from about 20 yards inside our half, the tactic is literally put everyone up to their box and just chip a high ball in. That's park football stuff. I cannot remember that being anywhere near successful in goals we have scored this season. I genuinely thought I'd seen a change after Stevenage away - next game goal kicks were being taken short, same with free kicks - CH, MB, NML, EC, CN - they were all allowed to 'play football' - and then we started winning - but now, this has gone out of the window again - and not once did I see Warne last night telling the team to keep the ball on the deck.
if we scrape over the finish line, I'll be amazed but grateful - but with Warne there and his limited repertoire of coaching - we're screwed next season whichever league we are in.

No - But our defenders were heading it as strong and far as they could instead of heading it to Bird/Smith who were very often just simple lay off headers.
I guess its what you get when you sign players like Bradley.
The amount of points lost form winning positions would suggest that looking comfortable is never comfortable. We should 100% be pushing for that second. By going on a proper offensive, in my opinion we have as much chance of conceding a goal from being offensive as we do from just 'looking comfortable' if you get my drift.

Sensible post - so I'll pick it apart a little.
We are second because other teams are atrocious. We have the highest wage bill by a long way - of course that doesn't guarantee success but I do believe we have a number of very good player - its the way they are being told to execute their jobs which is the issue for me.
5 at the back - we struggle to create. 3 Centre backs, two wing backs who often become full backs and two holding midfielders - this is a recipe for not creating - as we have seen multiple times now.
So what/how has Wildsmith been coached by Andy Warrington. Surely after the debacle at Oxford, Wildsmith would have received coaching on what to do in that situation? So poor decision by Wildsmith especially as he delayed his coming out but not being coached very well is he.
Second goal - the pass form Wilson was poor - he gunned it to Ebou Adams but it was not on the ground. why as a team do we seem to put so much focus on getting the direction of the pass correct that anything over 15 yards seems to be a few bounces. Watch Man City play, watch Arsenal, watch Brighton - when they pass to each other the ball stays on the deck. This means the receiving player can control it immediately or make a first time pass more successfully. Wilson hammered it to Adams off the deck. So poor coaching for me again - not to mention the fact that Wilson went backwards. However - I don't have such an issue with that. However - Can you tell me how many times our players actually move into space? They don't - we're static as anything. This is one of the big changes to NML's game - he wants the ball to feet every time - a defender isn't worried about him (or literally anyone) on our team making a run into space.
I'm sorry - our football has been shambolic for most of the season. We win games IMO because we generally have better players who are able to pull bits of magic out and thus deliver - NML being a prime example. Worth noting that the top five contributing players offensively this year are all Rosenoir signings/Academy. (NML, CH, JC, MB and TB). Warne hasn't bought in, as yet, an offensive player able to make any impact in this team. I trust CBT will come good though.
My final point on the coaching (away from the head tennis) - literally how dated and old school is the tactic of when we get a set piece anywhere from about 20 yards inside our half, the tactic is literally put everyone up to their box and just chip a high ball in. That's park football stuff. I cannot remember that being anywhere near successful in goals we have scored this season. I genuinely thought I'd seen a change after Stevenage away - next game goal kicks were being taken short, same with free kicks - CH, MB, NML, EC, CN - they were all allowed to 'play football' - and then we started winning - but now, this has gone out of the window again - and not once did I see Warne last night telling the team to keep the ball on the deck.
if we scrape over the finish line, I'll be amazed but grateful - but with Warne there and his limited repertoire of coaching - we're screwed next season whichever league we are in.

Sensible post - so I'll pick it apart a little.
We are second because other teams are atrocious. We have the highest wage bill by a long way - of course that doesn't guarantee success but I do believe we have a number of very good player - its the way they are being told to execute their jobs which is the issue for me.
5 at the back - we struggle to create. 3 Centre backs, two wing backs who often become full backs and two holding midfielders - this is a recipe for not creating - as we have seen multiple times now.
So what/how has Wildsmith been coached by Andy Warrington. Surely after the debacle at Oxford, Wildsmith would have received coaching on what to do in that situation? So poor decision by Wildsmith especially as he delayed his coming out but not being coached very well is he.
Second goal - the pass form Wilson was poor - he gunned it to Ebou Adams but it was not on the ground. why as a team do we seem to put so much focus on getting the direction of the pass correct that anything over 15 yards seems to be a few bounces. Watch Man City play, watch Arsenal, watch Brighton - when they pass to each other the ball stays on the deck. This means the receiving player can control it immediately or make a first time pass more successfully. Wilson hammered it to Adams off the deck. So poor coaching for me again - not to mention the fact that Wilson went backwards. However - I don't have such an issue with that. However - Can you tell me how many times our players actually move into space? They don't - we're static as anything. This is one of the big changes to NML's game - he wants the ball to feet every time - a defender isn't worried about him (or literally anyone) on our team making a run into space.
I'm sorry - our football has been shambolic for most of the season. We win games IMO because we generally have better players who are able to pull bits of magic out and thus deliver - NML being a prime example. Worth noting that the top five contributing players offensively this year are all Rosenoir signings/Academy. (NML, CH, JC, MB and TB). Warne hasn't bought in, as yet, an offensive player able to make any impact in this team. I trust CBT will come good though.
My final point on the coaching (away from the head tennis) - literally how dated and old school is the tactic of when we get a set piece anywhere from about 20 yards inside our half, the tactic is literally put everyone up to their box and just chip a high ball in. That's park football stuff. I cannot remember that being anywhere near successful in goals we have scored this season. I genuinely thought I'd seen a change after Stevenage away - next game goal kicks were being taken short, same with free kicks - CH, MB, NML, EC, CN - they were all allowed to 'play football' - and then we started winning - but now, this has gone out of the window again - and not once did I see Warne last night telling the team to keep the ball on the deck.
if we scrape over the finish line, I'll be amazed but grateful - but with Warne there and his limited repertoire of coaching - we're screwed next season whichever league we are in.

No - But our defenders were heading it as strong and far as they could instead of heading it to Bird/Smith who were very often just simple lay off headers.
I guess its what you get when you sign players like Bradley.
The amount of points lost form winning positions would suggest that looking comfortable is never comfortable. We should 100% be pushing for that second. By going on a proper offensive, in my opinion we have as much chance of conceding a goal from being offensive as we do from just 'looking comfortable' if you get my drift.

No - But our defenders were heading it as strong and far as they could instead of heading it to Bird/Smith who were very often just simple lay off headers.
I guess its what you get when you sign players like Bradley.
The amount of points lost form winning positions would suggest that looking comfortable is never comfortable. We should 100% be pushing for that second. By going on a proper offensive, in my opinion we have as much chance of conceding a goal from being offensive as we do from just 'looking comfortable' if you get my drift.

Much wrong? Wow.
We'd had three shots at half time. We had played head tennis for much of the first half. I think everything was wrong.

1) Agreed
2) From a business perspective, I believe the Championship will be worth an extra £7-10m in revenue. Of course our costs go up but who doesn't want this. 
I'd also suggest - we stay down, Bird is already gone, I am sure Cashin will move on (We just get a decent fee) so what will we be left with? Our better ball playing players will have left (Bird, Cashin, Hourihane), a manager playing lump it football, a depleted squad size, a manager who seems to struggle to attract good attacking players (Which attacking players has he bought in who are a success - even Wilson for all his skill doesn't contribute much in goals/assists). It's a disaster waiting to happen under Warne.

At half time, both teams had had three shots, with the Cash goal being the only effort on target.
We were home to fifth bottom who were winless in 18, and we’d had three shots.
By the 98th minute we hadn’t fashioned any half decent open play opportunity.

Much wrong? Wow.
We'd had three shots at half time. We had played head tennis for much of the first half. I think everything was wrong.

1) Agreed
2) From a business perspective, I believe the Championship will be worth an extra £7-10m in revenue. Of course our costs go up but who doesn't want this. 
I'd also suggest - we stay down, Bird is already gone, I am sure Cashin will move on (We just get a decent fee) so what will we be left with? Our better ball playing players will have left (Bird, Cashin, Hourihane), a manager playing lump it football, a depleted squad size, a manager who seems to struggle to attract good attacking players (Which attacking players has he bought in who are a success - even Wilson for all his skill doesn't contribute much in goals/assists). It's a disaster waiting to happen under Warne.

1Wildsmith - 5 (Cost us a goal by delaying coming out and then being reckless)
24Nyambe - 6 (Not much support in front of him, spotted this by going alone a couple of times)
7Barkhuizen - 5 (Seems to lack confidence)
35Nelson - 6 
5Bradley - 5
6Cashin - 6 (Stopping putting square pegs in round holes)
2Wilson - 5 (Although Adams should be controlling the ball - why can't we pass to players with the ball staying on the deck - this is a real bugbear of mine)
12Smith - 6 (Battled well but ultimately not sure what he really offers - he is going to score and doesn't create)
17Sibley - 5 (Left wing, centre mid - all over the place - not his fault)
32Adams - 6 (Some good tackles, but should have done better with the pass to him)
27Blackett-Taylor - 6 (No real time, team don't seem to trust him yet)
11Méndez-Laing - 6 (Again - Always wants the ball to feet, never seems to run in behind much - thats easy to mark against)
8Bird 🐦 -  5 (Very soft, lost all his 50/50)
25Gayle - 6 (Pleasantly surprised with some of his hold up play but never threatened)
10Waghorn - 5 (No impact of any type)
 
Second game in a row now I couldn't give anyone a 7. Rather telling that.

Got to play through the midfield for this to happen.

The unwritten assumption in my post was that I'd rather a different manager actually get something in place (even if it takes us another year or 2), than Warne drag us up through sheer bloody-mindedness and then take us straight back down.  I dread to think what we'll look like next season after most of the remaining footballers have gone, whatever league we're in.

Warne set up as a 4-2-3-1. I have no issue with that, but why push Cashin to left back? He needs to be brave. Sibley has filled that role well on numerous occasions. Well has Bradley has played lately he should have been on the bench.
I like Wilson but he has a trait - fail to put the opposition full back on toast early on and his confidence pours away. Like last night, when that happens he doesn't have a good game. Warne should have taken him off early in the second half.
Substitutions. Smith and Adams were playing well - amongst our best on the night. Why does he take them off and leave us without any physicality in midfield against a physical side?
Yes the players made mistakes, but Warnes decisions increase the pressure on the players and thus increase the chances of them making mistakes.

I’m no tactical genius but I disagree with your assessment. I didn’t ever feel like we looked in control. Charlton kept the ball better and I always thought they were a “missed tackle” or mistake (as it happened) away from getting in. We looked v v poor in possession after the first 15 and never looked like scoring a second goal. As at Barnsley, we looked more urgent in the last 10, largely to the opposition sitting on their lead 

The only thing I could hear in my head after Wildsmith's 'tackle' was Cloughie saying 'oh bloody hell, you need shooting'.
Just criminal. As stupid and brainless as anything you will ever see.
Always said it, Warne-ball is only acceptable when you win. First half was better and we were winning. 
2nd half was bloody terrible. All the chickens came home to roost. NML looked shattered, Bird was ineffective.  
Two shocking defensive errors and we are left just launching it aimlessly. 
Needs a big turn round.

All well reasoned points and I don't fundamentally disagree. I share some of the disdain for where we are Vs where I think we could be in terms of having a much more coherent, exciting long term strategy to make this club great again.
However, it wasn't posts like yours I was being provocative about. Moreso posters who rant on with one line negativity exclusively about Warne any time we drop points. Obviously that's their right, I just don't understand the singularity of that line of argument.
I don't think we've played particularly well all season and I keep expecting/hoping it will click but it's difficult to argue that we haven't been effective at accumulating the points we need to challenge for autos.
On that score alone I find it difficult to understand how anyone can call for him to be sacked at this point.
If we don't get promoted then it's a different story and I think we should think very hard about whether he's the right man for the project. As it stands I think we've got to see how it plays out.