DCFC Kicks

5 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

What bona fide evidence do you have to back up your assertion?

None. What evidence do you have to say otherwise? I'm giving my opinion. If I was a player, I wouldn't want to play the way we have recently. Especially when so many other teams in the division play better football.

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

I am not sure I agree that there was such a regression. We played well at times but often would shoot ourselves in the foot, have no luck or not be able to sustain that quality of play over 90 minutes. We played some of our best football of the whole season v Plymouth, Peterborough and Wednesday away, for instance. We just couldn’t hold our nerve at key moments.

If Rosenior hadn’t signed McGoldrick, he would have signed another player. Who knows how well or how badly that player would have been suited to a Warne team? It’s impossible to say.

How do you measure the recruitment by Warne against recruitment by Rosenior? Rosenior’s signings have been here for a year or more. Warne’s signings have been here for six league games or in many cases fewer. Surely a better comparison can be made in April or May next year?

I think Warne needs until the end of the season. A whole season with his own squad of players and two transfer windows to bring in the players he wants seems fair to me. 

In the summer, there will be the opportunity to bring in someone new if we feel Warne has underachieved, and from there a new manager and the club can work without the restrictions of the business plan looming large.

How will the season be a write off? Unless we are 10+ points from the play-offs, which we are not currently and unlikely to be, we’ll have something to play for right until the very end.

We regressed in the simple fact that we started winning less games. That doesn't happen without a reason. To put it down to bad luck is just a cop out to me.

You can't just say "he would have signed another player", like McGoldrick was any old player. He was a one-off. Don't pretend any other player could have done what he did easily.

I'm on about the calibre of player. Hourihane, McGoldrick, NML, all have Prem experience. The majority of our transfers this season are from L1 or lower Champ teams they couldn't get into. Warne obviously doesn't have as good connections as Rooney or Rosenior, and I'll bet a lot of players didn't want to sign for us based on the style of play as well. Ok, yes, lets wait and see how Warne's signings get on, but there must be a reason these players were allowed to leave these lower Champ/L1 clubs.

You're not considering how long it would take to reverse what Warne is doing to the squad if we did change him in the summer. If he's staying 100+ games, this brutish style will be so engrained, it may take another season or two to change again. Will you be on here again saying we need to give that new manager 2 more transfer windows as well? how long will it go on?

We might not get another chance like this season. The teams are comparatively weak compared to recent L1 seasons, especially with Wigan and Reading getting points deductions.

Of course this season could be a right-off. Ipswich and Plymouth got 98 and 101 points. Ipswich only lost 4 games all season.
We've already lost 3. We shouldn't be settling for the play-offs

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

i thought we were rebuilding for the future though. What use would it be to sign all these warne players then as soon as we get to the championship we are useless. Seems incredibly short sighted. 

 

I think you're underestimating how important and difficult it is to just get out this league. 

Didn't you say earlier that the whole squad except 2 were capable of playing in the Champ?

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

yes it took nigel several years to build that squad but the fact is he could still only get us playing mediocre football, languishing in mid table. As soon as mac took over the football improved massively and so did the league position. With the exact same squad. Therefore the manager makes a huge difference. 

3 promotions in 4 seasons is great, well done. But they were all done with the same team and you have to ask the question, why has he never managed to keep them up after promotion? Perhaps theres only so far you can go playing that basic football? I would actually say he's definetely not the most likely manager to know how to use the players. He's only ever managed at one club before joining us, where he just played the same basic style his whole time there. He has never previously managed players that are capable of playing any other way. 

We have the players and enough quality to play a passing style. It's what most of them are better at than what they're being told to do currently.

I think you've kind of admitted it yourself there. Your saying our weakness will be the same as warnes rotherhams in that we will be outplayed by championship sides. Therefore why are we sticking with him? Let's not forget we are being outplayed by league one sides too. The way he wants to play football is not going to work with the players we have. You seem to be underestimating just how good our players can be. They are almost all used to playing a better quality of football. 

You could argue Mac made many of those players play beyond themselves. I can't think of any really that went on to perform better elsewhere afterwards. Hendrick and Hughes played in the Prem, but haven't done that much. Hughes seems to have morphed into a run-of-the-mill CDM. 

In fairness, Warne did leave Rotherham when they were 8th/9th in the table. No one expected him to play amazing football here, but if it got us promoted then its acceptable. I just can't get over what he's done to the team this season. I thought he would build on the 4-2-3-1 of last season, but this 3-5-2 he's played this season has been perhaps the worst football I've ever seen Derby play (not including 07/08), and it's not even been affective. Our players are better than that. Maybe the injuries have forced him to change it, but what would happen to all the wings-backs and strikers he's signed?

I'm shocked so many on here don't realise how good of a player Hourihane is. Maybe its because he's wasted in our current team. He's top end Championship quality.

4 hours ago, Curtains said:

 

Oh really 

Brilliant response.

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I remember when Warne was first hired, he stated a desire to simplify the football as one of our previous managers made it too complicated for the players.

Hourihane, Smith, Bird, Forsyth, Sibley, Waghorn... all have experience playing in teams who play intricate football.

What Warne really means is HE doesn't know how to play complicated football.

You can't just say: "just fell away towards the end". Why did they fall away? We had a somewhat settled formation last season but Warnes ripped it up this season. Two of our most exiting players, Mendez-Laing and Barkhuizen don't fit anywhere in this formation.

1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said:

Just to throw a spanner in the works, man city and arsenal almost always play a lopsided formation...

And some websites list them as a back 3 and others as a back 4. 

49 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

So Bolton were bottom of the league as well? And let's not pretend our good football was just individual brilliance. It wasn't. There are patterns of play there. Where it has all gone I don't know but I believe it will be back this season.

I will concede that there were glimpses of good football last season, but you have to admit McGoldrick was a large part of that. 

But your last part is the key point of my argument. Where has this gone?  You believe good football will come back this season. On what basis? To me its going the opposite way so far. Why has he persisted with this dull 2 up front system? I just find it so boring and backwards. Its worse than last season which is the worst thing. Judging from his comments as well, he seems quite content with the style of play as well.

31 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

 

Ok, I'll change my original sentence. We occasionally played well against teams like Accrington who finished 2nd bottom, when we relied on the individual brilliance of McGoldrick. Look at how much we've regressed from this way of playing anyway.

25 minutes ago, oodledoodle said:

JCH was going for 800k.

and for big wages we aren't allowed to offer.

17 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said:

In that case under Mac we never played 433. We played 235?

Ok good point. But Mac's teams weren't lopsided left or right. Forsyth was playing the same distance up the pitch as NML most of the game, if not higher.

7 minutes ago, Curtains said:

 How can  you draw that comparison yet.  

Fine, lets say Elder is better than Roberts. My original point was the transfers were overall better last summer than they were this summer. Wouldn't you agree?

25 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Change the tactics and this summers' signings will look better than they currently do. We'll also get more out of the existing players too.

I agree, but it was Warnes decision to completely change formation this season. He knew in doing that we'd need to sign more players than if he'd just kept the current formation, and he hasn't managed to get all the players he wants. It was well known that there was a lack of strikers on the market, yet Warne insists on playing a system with 2 strikers. 

28 minutes ago, Curtains said:

Roberts !

I think Roberts is better that Elder.

4 hours ago, Archied said:

What I’ve seen is periods where we have got better then worse , then better then worse , it’s a long season and these teams that are being touted as the holy grail of football , eg Bolton ect will hit they’re poor runs and they’re fans will be saying they are predictable, have no plan b , have a soft underbelly ect ect ect ,

warne is nowhere near producing on the pitch the type of football he says he wants at the moment and if he doesn’t he will be gone and rightly so , where is the front foot pressing is my biggest bug bear , we saw it at times under warne last season and I loved it , we just gave teams no space to breath in some games and we’re all over them , that’s not happening just now and warne needs to figure out why it’s not happening 

Would you not agree 51 games is a long time? We won 12 of his first 20 games against L1 opposition, but only 7 of his last 20 games. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

We had times last season where we ran a lot, pressed, and made it difficult for the opposition. If you enjoy that, that's your opinion, but I didn't. We never played good football. I'd rather be like Bolton and play good football and just accept we might be out of form sometimes. I'm not sure what you mean by "the type of football he [Warne] says he wants", but if its what Rotherham were playing like all those years, I don't want it. 

9 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

To be fair whoever Rosenior brought in would look a good signing because we didn't have anyone on the books in the first place. Some of the signings would have been lined up when Rooney was here, I don't think it was all on Roseniors 'personal contacts'

Fine, Rooney and Rosenior. It doesn't change my point. This transfer window hasn't been as good as last summer despite having less financial restrictions.

You can't argue the likes of Nelson, Ward, Elder, Wilson, Fornah, Washington etc. are as good as NML, Hourihane, Wildsmith, McGoldrick, Roberts, Barhuizen etc.

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

How do you demonstrate progress six games into the season and especially when the squad has had 11 new arrivals, 4-5 significant first team outgoings, and a significant number of injuries? What are we comparing? By what objective metric exactly?

We’re actually 4 points better off now v comparable fixtures in 2022-23. Is that progression? I don’t think anyone in favour of Warne would argue that because we are only six games in, not 36. Things are still taking shape. We won’t know how much we’ve progressed until March or April next year and whether we mount and sustain a promotion challenge.

Do they hand out trophies and prize money now? How do you define progress less than 20% into the season? Final positions are decided after 46 games. 40 games from now, if we finish 6th or above, isn’t that progression?

I'm including the end of last season as well. We only won 6 of the last 18 games. In my opinion the style of play has gradually regressed over that period up to now as well. 

If Liam didn't sign McGoldrick, Warne would've been sacked(if we can afford to sack him). 

He's had one transfer window and his recruitment hasn't been as good as Liam managed to do through his personal contacts alone. 

Your happy to give him over half the season? Even if it means we may have to write off another season because of it? 

54 minutes ago, Yoxoram said:

I presume therefore that you would have sacked Brian Clough after the first few games of the 1968/69 season as after a reasonable start in the 1967/68 season, league form went downhill. His record at the start of 1968/69 was poor with only one win in the first six matches and three draws. Translated into today's points totals that is six points. A worse record than Warne at the start of this season.

I'm assuming there was evidence of Clough's innovative, attacking football. As oppose to Warne's which looks about 20 years out of date 

1 hour ago, Terry Hennessy said:

I don't get this anti Warne comment by certain people. 

Since Billy Davies left in November 2007 [the last manager to win us anything] ... that's nearly 16 years ago we've had 17 managers...17 managers... and not 1 has got us up. Warne has done 3 promotions from this league.... has effectively had only 1 transfer window... not had any money to spend.... I just wish you'd give him a break and stop this hire and fire merry go round talk....

Explain why the team has got gradually worse since Warne has been here then. Shouldn't it be the opposite? He's been here 51 games now, which is long enough to demonstrate some sort of progression. 

44 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

is it not?

Kind of. Derby played really well for about 20mins and not so much the rest of the game.

10 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

Peterborough could easily have scored 4/5 goals. They got 2, hit the bar, numerous chances, one cleared off line. Yes we scored 4, but first one was a deflected cross, one was just a set piece their GK probably should have saved, one was a worldie that certainly won't happen every week. And the other was Waggy's deflected one that wrong footed the GK. We scored with all 4 of our shots on goal and our xg for the game was only 0.95 .There aren't many occasions when a team gets 0.95 xg and scores 4 goals, therefore we were quite lucky

Can anyone tell me what position Mendez-Laing was playing this game? I've watched back the game and even before Rooney's injury and the red card he was often the furthest back player, even further back than the CBs.

On 02/09/2023 at 13:01, EnigmaRam said:

I don’t think we play with 3 at the back. We ply with 4. We just push Fozzy up high as an attacking fullback. This overloads the left hand side creating more space for NML to exploit on the right. 
 

That’s what I’m seeing anyway 🤷‍♂️

On 02/09/2023 at 13:20, Tombo said:

Well we haven't been playing 3 at the back of late and in fact our formation has been closer to the one you posted that we should be playing, the 433.

If one full back is so much higher than the other, how can it still be classed as a back 4? From what I've seen, they change between a back 3 and back 4 in games, but it looks more like a back 3 most of the time.🤷‍♂️