i-Ram

You ask, Was our legal team told an expert was required ?!!     it’s an adversarial system where Nick de Marco has to decide how best to win the case, what evidence to put forward. We put no expert evidence forward. Hard to believe then that the accounting world was unanimous in thinking our policy was within FRS 102. Because if they had been, we would have had them in there shouting it from the rafters at the IDC
 
On your last paragraph: Does it make sense for a judge to decide a case that turns on a complex point of engineering? Or on a difficult question about the mental health of a defendant? Loads of cases turn on points of expertise that are way outside the competence of the judges. The solution is that expert evidence covers areas where the judge has no expertise. 
 

As if to demonstrate the lack of understanding of which "rules" Derby have broken, we have this pile of nonsense from The Grauniad :
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/nov/16/Derby-deducted-another-nine-points-for-breaches-of-efl-rules-over-pride-park-sale
What a dreadful excuse for journalism and editing.
 

Glad it's finally over - well at least this part of it.  God knows what happens beyond this season?
Been a long-time lurker, but felt compelled to join the other day.
 
I think we all need to try move on, I don't think there's anything healthy about seeking to have jabs at the EFL.  The state of the accounts... etc will probably forever remain unknown now.  But I think we (the club I should say, not fans as apart from enjoying the ambition/spending, there's no responsibility re: this outcome) need to take it on the chin.  There clearly has been some wrongdoings.  Not paying HMRC, not producing the accounts for years and the issues around amortisation and the stadium sale, whether it breaks rules or not, it was all very immoral and I hope as a club that's something that can be addressed in the future.
 
Maybe it's just me, being old and sentimental, I want to support a club that is all above board, acts with morality and takes the higher ground.  I am sure the EFL could have handled it very differently, I think the way the club (or maybe Mel?) acted throughout this put their nose out of joint and any sense of goodwill went out the window a long time ago.  Is that right or not? who knows, but I think everyone just needs to accept it has happened now.
 
Get behind the lads, there is clearly a lack of quality in the squad, it's evident.  But they are trying and I think all considered, we have to respect that.  Now is an opportunity for those who want to be around next season to get some games, prove their worth and get some exposure.  

I'm ho ding my own prot st by boycotting th    tt rs that  orm th ir nam   or th  r st o  th  s ason.

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

Nathan Byrne doesn't look happy 

My overriding thought, having now fully caught up with this thread, and the linked pages throughout today's web releases, is that had they been on sale from tomorrow, I'd join the queue, as I am now 100% ready to renew, for '22.
 
 
*Oooh... that kind o' rhymes!
Needs some work... Let's try...
 
After nigh on two years, of absolute poo,
I'm ready, I'm raring, so how about you?
Lets commit, let's pledge, let us all renew,
Bring it on.  Fear no more.  Here's to twenty twenty two!
 
 
...Shame we're not heading to L2, instead of L1... We'd be talking Pulitzer prize, right now!  ? 
 

Glad you agree it is opinions.  The only mention of the ICAEW i can see is related to them reviewing an audit file. There is nothing to suggest they accepted the amortisation methodology (as one of our many accounting policies) or looked at it before it was implemented/post implementation as to FRS 102 compliance, and I can't see they have ever come to say they did unless you can demonstrate their statement to that effect?  They seem to have reviewed the audit file prepared by SC for one year where the new amortisation policy was in place (I.e. reviewed whether SC had properly audited the club in that year as against it's written policies, the ICAEW have not been shown to have reviewed the club's underlying accounting policies vis FRS 102). 
Here is what I think people are getting confused by from the DC at para 50 as I can't find anything else: "The fact that Smith Cooper’s audit file for a financial year since the change in amortisation policy has occurred has been picked for review by the ICAEW and approved as compliant."
There seems to be a lot of people basing their entire opinion on the DC decision/our own opinion as a club about our own policy and that of our accountants/auditors (maybe not?), whereas the LAP decided against all of them based on further evidence, and I would suggest two QCs and Lord Dyson, who sat as a Justice on the Supreme Court, are very able to form a proper opinion and come to a sound judgment on the issue without needing to be accountants - without trying to be condescending, it's what judges do, weigh up the evidence and then apply the law.  It's how the court system in England and Wales works - judges are not accountants and hear accountancy based cases all the time (as well as everything else they hear on which they are not 'qualified' experts).

Find it a bit funny reading some of the comments about the adminstrators not doing their job properly or not having the club's best interests at heart.
Kind of overlooking the point that the adminstrators only came into the club as a certain person decided to put the club into administration otherwise they wouldn't be anywhere near us in the first place.
Weird logic. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

We can, and no doubt many will, argue about the treatment of our Club by the EFL all day, but what should not be lost today is that if Morris hadn’t put us in to Administration a couple of months ago, whilst clearly still a very wealthy man, and committed himself instead to accepting 9 points punishment for our P&S indiscretion, we would still have a Club today that had a chance, a good chance, of being in the Championship next season.
Morris bought a brilliant Club and Team, and in 6 short years ran it into the ground, and ultimately ran away to let someone else clear up the mess. 

And it might have given us some leverage, even if we weren't likely to win. 
There's clearly been a fair amount of horse-trading in order to agree a final punishment. On the one hand it's actually lower than the agreed overspend figures would suggest, but on the other we've dropped the administration appeal and (more to the point) we've accepted being pinged for multiple years and not just the first. 
I think we can all agree it's a highly unsatisfactory and opaque process and to whoever said football should be overseen by an independent body - I could not agree more, and there will never be a better example than us.
It is a real shame we couldn't have got to this point without the additional penalty of administration, because I really believe we'd have a chance of staying up, and it would be easier to rebuild from the Championship than from League One. But here we are: hopefully we can get the club sold, and the future sorted, and rebuild around young players who want to stay and become legends of the future.
 

If this is true, then why did we not put forward an expert witness ? It makes no sense 

The least he can do is give us back the stadium. And I won't be thanking him for it, either. 
The guy has ruined us. 

This is why we've had a 9 point deduction. Blame the EFL if it makes you feel better. Pretend it's a vendetta if you really want to play the victim. Delude yourself that we would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for that meddling Steve Gibson if it helps.
But it's all complete BS. Derby County is a member of the EFL. The EFL is a rules based organisation. We repeatedly broke the rules. We are gulity as charged and have been sanctioned accordingly. Yes it really is that simple.
The only people responsible are the people who were running the club. They gambled with your club's future. They lost. End of.
Time to move on. Time to rebuild under new owners in League One.
 

Ok, lets move on bring in a new owner ASAP and plan for L1. I have to admit that I was shocked with the amount of overspend, a lot more than we have been led to believe. Given the amount we cannot complain with the deduction.

The only good part of this decision is that it seems that we should start next season with a clean slate and be able to operate as a 'normal' club for the first time in many seasons.....