Enough

[Bris Vegas]

He was being ironic Bris!!

I missed it 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />

[Jourdan]

Jourdan the board have no risk backing Nigel with money as he has shown he can find good young players and make them work in the Championship. This creates value and if they wanted to recoup some money they could sell one of them. They're just not doing it.

I'm not saying there's a great risk. He has shown he is capable of spotting a good player but he has signed his fair share of poor players too, let's not forget. I'm saying Clough hasn't given them any incentive to invest with the poor results on the pitch under his management. There's no point going out and spending millions more than they have if Clough consistently fails to get the best out of his players. If Sven couldn't get Leicester with all their millions into the top 6, why would Nigel be any different with millions to spend here? It goes beyond identifying and signing the player, you've got to get the best out of them and get them producing results too, otherwise what's the point? I don't think the idea of signing Brayford for £500k was to sell him for £1.5million in January but still be plodding about in midtable and not making progress. If Clough had got us progressing year-on-year and playing good football, I'd say yes he deserves more money to spend. But as it stands, the board have been more than fair.

[AndyB]

Duracell I agree with your comments about Doyle 100%.

But I don't think Clough gives up on games at all. I think other factors are at play like over used young players, players returning too soon from injury, etc. Back to the limited budget for me I'm afraid.

[RotherhamRam]

It the fact that we have a £3,000,000 defence, and we get free transfers such as Tyson for our attack!

Again where is the couple of million promised by Glick to bolster the attack. Which by the way was continually promised and spoken about after Tyson signed. So my statement still stands. £3million on 4 players works at £750k average. Not a lot for a team where the board state they are looking at top 6 and its not even £3million as the £1 million forked out when we brought Brayford also paid for Bailey.

[RotherhamRam]

I'm not saying there's a great risk. He has shown he is capable of spotting a good player but he has signed his fair share of poor players too, let's not forget. I'm saying Clough hasn't given them any incentive to invest with the poor results on the pitch under his management. There's no point going out and spending millions more than they have if Clough consistently fails to get the best out of his players. If Sven couldn't get Leicester with all their millions into the top 6, why would Nigel be any different with millions to spend here? It goes beyond identifying and signing the player, you've got to get the best out of them and get them producing results too, otherwise what's the point? I don't think the idea of signing Brayford for £500k was to sell him for £1.5million in January but still be plodding about in midtable and not making progress. If Clough had got us progressing year-on-year and playing good football, I'd say yes he deserves more money to spend. But as it stands, the board have been more than fair.

The players we are signing for £350k are mainly good honest players and are players who are young and will develop. Injuries are no excuse I accept this but not in total as the young players who need to develop don't need to be relied upon to get results week in week out. They should be developing in the reserves but are not able to and are playing established championship teams who do not need to tinker with the suad, Hull, Reading, WHU, Blackpool, Watford, Leeds, Cardiff etc. Its not about getting the most out of them it is about their experience. When the squad/team is fit these players have the experience around them and then they learn and develop

[AndyB]

Jourdan I'm just saying back the manager and have a go at getting into the top 2 or 6. Then if you overstretch and it doesn't work out at least you have the security of knowing you can sell a player to balance the books again. The board's policy at the moment is just treading water.

Also, the board are happy with Clough that's why they've just given him another 3 years. You sound like they're withholding funds from Clough because they don't rate him?

[RotherhamRam]

Erm I'm sorry if my head isn't firmly up my arse and all I can see is the greatness of Derby County..

The fact I'm a football fan first means I dont wear DCFC specs and I don't give biased opinions about us.. I'm giving a nuetral view about the team I support.. We're **** and Clough is out of his depth.. His longball defensive tactics don't belong in League Football.. Even Burton Albion have outgrown him..

He should go back to Mansfield or wherever he came from

Hypocrit your comments have only one basis anti derby anti clough anti everything Derby. You expect everyone to support your one sided views and constant argumentative stance on everything

[RotherhamRam]

I count 38 here (36 if you discount Jones, Cole), 35 have played at least one game for Derby

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_County_F.C.#Current_squad]http://en.wikipedia.....#Current_squad

How many of the squad are academy players, scholars, youth set up. How many have we drafted in to cover injuries so we can actually consider players. How many did we have at the beginning of the season.

[Duracell]

Duracell I agree with your comments about Doyle 100%.

But I don't think Clough gives up on games at all. I think other factors are at play like over used young players, players returning too soon from injury, etc. Back to the limited budget for me I'm afraid.

Ok, maybe I exaggerated the regularity of Clough's defeatist attitude in games, but we didn't properly chase tonight. You bring on Doyle when you're 3-0 up at home, when Ward's knackered - not when you're supposed to be chasing one of the strongest sides in the league away from home. At Cardiff too, I never got a sense that we were having a real go. How on earth is Bennett more likely to change the game than Cywka?

I don't think it matters how much money you chuck at Clough, his management - or, rather, our current management team - will always have shortcomings. We've not dealt with this injury crisis well, not at all; Cywka and Maguire should be used, that's why we signed them, and to dip in to the Under 16s is worrying, especially seen as he signed them both.

And the budget doesn't explain why we score the fewest goals in the last fifteen minutes of any team in the league - a pattern that's been here every season since Clough's been in charge. And why have we never come back from 2-0 down? Why do two defeats turn in to a slump? Why can we never win in the winter?

Clough's job isn't easy, and in some respects, he's done well. But my heart is listening to my head now - I can no longer honestly believe that this man will take this club anywhere. Do you see us in Europe with Clough?

[Duracell]

Hypocrit your comments have only one basis anti derby anti clough anti everything Derby. You expect everyone to support your one sided views and constant argumentative stance on everything

Steady on. He has a negative opinion, it's different to yours and he's entitled to argue it as passionately as yours.

[AndyB]

Europe? I hadn't thought about Europe for ages! I would like us to get into the Premier League with a chance of staying there, then push on. Do I think we can get there with Clough? Definitely. Do I think we can get there with this board? No chance!

I realise it was very early in Clough's reign i.e. when he had a more experienced squad, and it was the FA Cup, but we did come back from 2-0 down to beat Forest 3-2.

[RotherhamRam]

Steady on. He has a negative opinion, it's different to yours and he's entitled to argue it as passionately as yours.

Its the fact he states he does not give biased comments, he has never given a comment which has two sides of an argument and only accepts his point of view.

Sorry if I came across hard just tired of his comments causing arguments when there is no actual debate it is just forcing his points.

[Jourdan]

Jourdan I'm just saying back the manager and have a go at getting into the top 2 or 6. Then if you overstretch and it doesn't work out at least you have the security of knowing you can sell a player to balance the books again. The board's policy at the moment is just treading water.

Also, the board are happy with Clough that's why they've just given him another 3 years. You sound like they're withholding funds from Clough because they don't rate him?

I'd class spending £3million in one transfer window as backing and teams have spent less and got into the play-offs and promoted too. Glick has stated we are over budget. Who could we sell realistically? Of Clough's signings, I'd say only Brayford's value has increased significantly enough to sell on and that'd leave us with good old Buxton at right back, so it wouldn't make sense. The board are businessmen and businessmen like we have in charge at our club didn't get where they are by being frivolous with money. Let's be realistic, they gave him another 3 years to ward off rumoured interest from Forest, which when added to the good start, would have given Clough more leverage in contract discussions. Otherwise, they were indifferent and in no rush to commit him to a new deal and in light of recent results, are probably thinking they should have remained calm under that pressure.

[Duracell]

Europe? I hadn't thought about Europe for ages! I would like us to get into the Premier League with a chance of staying there, then push on. Do I think we can get there with Clough? Definitely. Do I think we can get there with this board? No chance!

I realise it was very early in Clough's reign i.e. when he had a more experienced squad, and it was the FA Cup, but we did come back from 2-0 down to beat Forest 3-2.

Sorry, that stat was league games - we all remember that game 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

I can't see us getting promoted scoring so few goals in the final 15 minute of games. We're so negative. We have the players to do it, and the board isn't a massive obstruction. The wage bill isn't that low and we haven't had that little to spend. We're ahead of the game in terms of FFP and it looks like we're finding new creative ways to increase revenue.

[Jourdan]

Jourdan I'm just saying back the manager and have a go at getting into the top 2 or 6.

Why do you think Billy Davies got the freedom of Nottingham and was continually able to spend millions on assembling his squad? Because he actually delivered results and got the best out of his players. If after splashing the cash in summer 2009, they went on to finish mid-table instead of in the top 6, things would have been different.

If Billy walked back through the revolving doors of the Toyota Stand in January 2009 and had the exact same constraints as Nigel, I'm certain we wouldn't be looking odds-on for a finish in the bottom half of the Championship for a fourth season running, because he'd get this £3million defence actually defending!

[EastKentRam]

Don't think Clough's spent his money particularly unwisely, in fact I'd almost say he's done well.

What is absolutely unforgiveable is giving up on games, repetitively. What is the f*****g point in travelling to a game if the most we can expect is a 1-0 win.

The way I see it, we count on getting the first goal and defending it for the three points. If we concede, we don't chase for the lead - no, we rest ourselves to have another go at the 1-0 trick next time out.

What on earth was he thinking taking Ward off and bringing on Doyle. Ward is a match winner, and Doyle...well, you might get a pass to a white shirt. If you're lucky.

Unforgiveable. An absolute insult to the fans that travelled to London. They might as well have stayed at home - their support doesn't make a blind bit of difference when you're not even trying.

This isn't non-league stuff. This is unacceptable at any level of football.

I fully agree with this, when he bought Barker, Brayford and Ward off all it said to me was, we'll take 3-1, lets rest these players up for the next game. What kind of f*cking attitude is that to have? It was a major insult to everyone that had travelled, would he have made those subs if we were winning or drawing, i'd bet any amount of money that he wouldnt. It's West Ham, not Barcelona, yes they're a good side but they're also a side that have dropped points at home to Bristol City, Leeds, Ipswich and Cardiff.

Anyone who thinks Clough is doing a good job has got their head up their arse, he's makes so many poor decisions i'd need a day to type them all out.

It's his team, he bought the players, he's implemented the style and tactics and he makes every decision that effects the club and for the past 3 years it all hasnt been good enough. Lack of funds is an excuse for people struggling for reasons to back Clough, he's spent far more than teams who have done far better than us. Was just summing up what most people are here but you cant argue with any of it, it's fact.

[dabber]

I think defence and midfield are adequate, but up front we have nothing even if all the walking wounded are back. Ward and Davies don't offer enough in open play for me, Ward perhaps as he has a heart but Davies contributes nothing. Ignoring Priskin, in my opinion Davies, S. is immobile, Robinson has pace but little else and Tyson might have pace and a bit else but will we ever see it? I would think that if we can change 2 or 3 of the top 3 and a new left back we could compete, but as it stands lower mid table obscurity is the best we can hope for.

[Bris Vegas]

Its the fact he states he does not give biased comments, he has never given a comment which has two sides of an argument and only accepts his point of view.

Sorry if I came across hard just tired of his comments causing arguments when there is no actual debate it is just forcing his points.

I post exactly the way you post, I just simply have a different opinion to you and you don't like the fact that Clough represents more my opinion than yours.. The fact is, I'd love it if Clough got it right, and would thoroghly accept that my opinions were wrong, you on the other hand will continue to fight Cloughs corner however bad we are doing.. Your loyalty to him is bordering on dangerous and obsessive..

[jcidaho]

Budget constraints? give over, we've got one of the biggest squads in the league with lots of options, problem is....injuries.

And Cloughs naughty step. And Players loss of form due to poor management.

[jcidaho]

Its the fact he states he does not give biased comments, he has never given a comment which has two sides of an argument and only accepts his point of view.

Sorry if I came across hard just tired of his comments causing arguments when there is no actual debate it is just forcing his points.

No actual debate? There is a debate raging on this forum. Those that are pro-clough and blame the board, and those think Clough is a poor manager and needs to be gotten rid. There are subtle flavours thereof but that's about it. Unfair to single out a single poster who weighs in heavily on one particular side and saying "you're tired". We're all tired of this to be frank, that's why the points being made are getting ever stronger, to bring it to a conclusion.