Enough

[Alph]

Have to requote you on this because you say we have a "decent squad", if that's the case why are we not picking up results and why are you making GSE scapegoats?

I thought you was a fan of Clough?

Not having a pop. Just at what point does it switch to his fault from say that of GSE or the players? Genuine question. Not a dig.

I'm just curious that some people are less supportive of Clough than they once were. At what point did certain fans feel it was his fault as oppose to others?

[RotherhamRam]

the year we finished fourth with Burley we had the following squad players

Camp, Jackson, Konjic, Huddlestone, Kenna, Bisgaard, Idiakez, Bolder, Tommy Smith, Rasiak, Peschisolido, Tudgay Grant and Ian Taylor, Johnson, Reich, Junior

Also at the end of November we had 29pts with 8 W 5D and 8L.

Those players above the question is why some of them are not still here and wish they were including Camp, Grant, Tudagy, Tommy Smith, Huddelston and players like Rasiak and Idiakez.

The difference between our board then and now they would pay the wages to these types of players.

Could you see our board stumping up the money for these types of players NOT A CHANCE.

The squad then was better than now but although there was constraints financially there was the scope to keep the players together as pretty much this was the squad the year before which finished 15th or 16th which also highlights that it took Burley a season and half with this squad before getting them playing together.

The squad of 2003 included Grant, Huddelston, Kenna, Mawene, Johnson, Tudgay, Reich, Taylor, Bolder, Junior, Peschisolido so although he did not spend a lot in 2003 to 2004 the wages were the key and he was able to bring the players in he needed.

[trekkie_ram]

Just read elsewhere and was reminded, this is the third year of the three year plan.

Billy Davies was a three year plan. Nigel Clough has often spoken of a ten year plan.

[AndyB]

Clough has been building from the back for 3 years, have you seen how many goals we are letting in

I think that's a bit simplistic as we have had serious injuries to first 11 players. If more of our best players had played this season I don't think letting goals in would be our biggest issue.

[Gary Teale]

I was quoting you suggesting another manager would do well with this squad. I was just pointing out that that's because of Clough's ability to find bargains. I think it's a decent squad for the budget but not for a top 6 challenge as we were promised. The board are to blame in my view. With a bit of foresight we could have built from a position of strength last season or this summer but didn't.

Buying players is only one part of a mangers job, they have to organise the team, we cant defend, define a style of play, well we pass it around the back and then hit long balls, motivate the players and the good mangers make players play above themselves, well I dont think we have many playing well. That is not the board that is the team manager. I will say it again, 1 win in 16.

[RAMSINCE1969]

We need some quality in January and the Board I guess will be reluctant to want to invest untill some players have moved on,before we know it we will be asked to renew our tickets with promises of star signings,the signings need to come Jan not next season, players are coming back from injuries but we are carrying a long list of non starters and players out of favour

Leacock

Bywater

Pearson

Riggot

Tyson

Martin

Croft

Cykwa

Maguire

Just a few to name no doubt we have a few more

[Gary Teale]

the year we finished fourth with Burley we had the following squad players

Camp, Jackson, Konjic, Huddlestone, Kenna, Bisgaard, Idiakez, Bolder, Tommy Smith, Rasiak, Peschisolido, Tudgay Grant and Ian Taylor, Johnson, Reich, Junior

Also at the end of November we had 29pts with 8 W 5D and 8L.

Those players above the question is why some of them are not still here and wish they were including Camp, Grant, Tudagy, Tommy Smith, Huddelston and players like Rasiak and Idiakez.

The difference between our board then and now they would pay the wages to these types of players.

Could you see our board stumping up the money for these types of players NOT A CHANCE.

The squad then was better than now but although there was constraints financially there was the scope to keep the players together as pretty much this was the squad the year before which finished 15th or 16th which also highlights that it took Burley a season and half with this squad before getting them playing together.

The squad of 2003 included Grant, Huddelston, Kenna, Mawene, Johnson, Tudgay, Reich, Taylor, Bolder, Junior, Peschisolido so although he did not spend a lot in 2003 to 2004 the wages were the key and he was able to bring the players in he needed.

Im sorry but you clearly are stating opinion and have no idea of fact. I worked for Burley and Simon Hunt during there time here and I can assure you the wages were very low and for example Bisgaard was on less than 1k a week. Grant, Camp, Huddlestone and Tudgay had just come out of the youth team, Pesh was a bargin as Sheff Utd paid us a large fee for Izale and let us have pesh. Reich was unattached. Burley missed out on players like Svennson who after his loan spell was begging to join but the board wouldnt pay it. The board had no money at all so couldnt hold up a wage bill of any strength.

[Gary Teale]

fielding 350k

Brayford and Bailey 1mil

Barker 1 mil

Shackell 1 mil

Roberts free

Bryson 400k

Green free

Davies 350k

Ward 400k

Priskin loan

Todays team. Just approximate figures. that team cost between 4-5 million, how much did West Ham pay for Nolan i would say 4 mil at least.

We arent just talking about today though, we didnt expect to get anything and didnt, has this team cost more than most champ teams?

[AndyB]

Buying players is only one part of a mangers job, they have to organise the team, motivate the players and the good mangers make players play above themselves

I agree with this and to be fair our 4231 last season was some of the best football seen at Derby for years. It showed what Clough could do, with a decent budget he would have been able to cover for losing players.

[Gary Teale]

I agree with this and to be fair our 4231 last season was some of the best football seen at Derby for years. It showed what Clough could do, with a decent budget he would have been able to cover for losing players.

So he is again living on one of our good runs, which we have about one a season

[ThePekingHomunculus]

I was at the game today (in the home end with a lot of West Ham nutters around me, so kept pretty quiet!)

The ticket cost me £34, yet the level of entertainment on offer from the club I support was non-existent, as has generally been the case for several years now.

Derby had a great start to the season yes, but take out that spell and the purple patch around this time last year and we have consistently been one of the weakest sides in the Championship throughout Clough's time in charge and are pretty lucky to still be in the division.

Yes, the wage bill is down and the club is staying afloat financially, but there is zero progress on the field of play and Clough betrays time and time again that he cannot manage players well and is no closer to building an effective unit than he was two seasons ago.

Even with his hands tied to some extent by the board, I think another manager could be doing better. Clough and his backroom team have had longer than most to prove themselves but sooner or later something has to change or we will remain a bottom half Championship team which is simply not acceptable to me or 25 - 30,000 other fans.

[Gary Teale]

I was at the game today (in the home end with a lot of West Ham nutters around me, so kept pretty quiet!)

The ticket cost me £34, yet the level of entertainment on offer from the club I support was non-existent, as has generally been the case for several years now.

Derby had a great start to the season yes, but take out that spell and the purple patch around this time last year and we have consistently been one of the weakest sides in the Championship throughout Clough's time in charge and are pretty lucky to still be in the division.

Yes, the wage bill is down and the club is staying afloat financially, but there is zero progress on the field of play and Clough betrays time and time again that he cannot manage players well and is no closer to building an effective unit than he was two seasons ago.

Even with his hands tied to some extent by the board, I think another manager could be doing better. Clough and his backroom team have had longer than most to prove themselves but sooner or later something has to change or we will remain a bottom half Championship team which is simply not acceptable to me or 25 - 30,000 other fans.

Very well put.

[AndyB]

has this team cost more than most champ teams?

I don't think so no. Transfer fees plus wages I would say we are bottom half.

[RotherhamRam]

Who manages, buys, and chooses to the play the players? The blame lies at the managers door.

Ok then with the money he has had to spend, the restrictions on wages and players he has to release and sell, what is actually available to buy with the scant money we have.

Tell me who you would have kept over the last 2 1/2 yrs under Clough. Who would you have purchased with the money you have and what would be your current squad.

I personally think this squad although is Clough's squad is about as strong as you would get it. The injuries are killing us at moment and yet again we jump on Cloughs back because he is the manager which is fair enough. The question has to be and will always be when he is allowed to spend a million pound in an actual transfer deal he has signed excellant players for the money. Barker, Brayford, Bailey, and Shackell. 4 players in 3 yr when he could spend a million on a player or combined deal (I believe the majority of the money spent between Bailey/Brayford was actually spent on Brayford and Bailey was part of the deal for the future).

The thing is when you are only allowed to spend £200-£450k on players it really is hit and miss on what you get for your money as these are young and untested players. We are allowed to spend money on transfers this year let him spend it on the midfielder and striker as promised at the beginning of the season he would get us good players as his record when actually spend good money on players for me is 100%. I defy anybody who would argue to prove a point to say they do not want Barker, Brayford, Bailey and Shackell (Bris I know your view on Barker but you also know everyones view on your view of Barker so please do not cause this thread to go into an argument).

The questions I want answering are

1) out of players gone who would you have kept under Clough?

2) out of those players who could we actually afford to keep under the current boards parameters? (hulse went on footballing reasons, was this so Clough could actually sign players to cover the players leaving for example)

3) who would you have purchased with your money and this has to be realistic targets.?

4) Do you agree when Clough has been allowed to spend proper money on players he has brought excellently if not why not?

People criticise Clough and yes it is frustrating but no body has actually said what they would have done differently and how they would have managed it if they were in Cloughs position.

Me personally if I could have had a crystal ball to see how it is at the moment. If I was Clough I would have told Pearson to go away for another few years and stopped with Burton, gone into the football league where the board allowed him to maange the team spend money when it was needed. This would have

1) Not allow the fans not to hide behind the non-league title as an excuse for the mess the club in instead of looking at all the factors which are causing our club to struggle. This way as Clough my reputation would not be battered at a club where mine and the families heart rest

2) Some poor other fecker could have the ***** from the board, the fans, and the players holding the club for ransom i.e claude davis, bywater, etc

3) somebody else could deal with Glick and teach him the understanding of the practicalities of football.

I would then have waited for the sucker who would be doing Cloughs role as they would not have faired better as the board would not pay anymore money than they are paying for Clough and implement the 3 yr plan from then.

I have been pro-clough and pro-board admittedly. I have now come to look at the factors involved and I am no longer pro-board and I really hate the fecking board and Glick for what they have done to us as a club since they arrived, what they have done for us or what they haven't even succumbs that abysmal season in the prem league. What they have done in using Cloughs name in protecting their arse and turning fans against the Clough name. In respect of Clough although it is hard to support him in the current situation my exception of the inabilities of the board and Glick will stop me from asking Clough to leave. I will always support Derby and Clough (be it blind faith with clough and not going to justify my reasons for this). I want the board out and would welcome PG back and I have never supported him throughout this mess but can he come back now

[Day]

I thought you was a fan of Clough?

Not having a pop. Just at what point does it switch to his fault from say that of GSE or the players? Genuine question. Not a dig.

I'm just curious that some people are less supportive of Clough than they once were. At what point did certain fans feel it was his fault as oppose to others?

I've never been fully in 1 camp or the other after he signed, pre-signing I was against it totally but when I realised GSE didn't care about my opinions I decided to give him a chance.

A lot of people seem to be fully pro or anti Clough/GSE, I don't see myself as either but more recently Cloughs flaws are starting to grate on me.

1) Injuries, I've never known in my years of supporting Derby seen us have an injury list which would fill a bog roll. It's not bad luck nor is it a gypsy curse, something is going on down Moor Farm which is crippling players.

2) Tactics or should I say negative tactics, why is Fielding booting every goal kick to the opposition keeper, why do our defenders always aim for the moon when kicking, why do we loss the ball within 2 seconds of every throw in, why do the players believe they will be burnt alive if they cross the half way line?

3) The naughty step, Moxey, Leacock, Cywka, Maguire, Martin....

4) Moaning about the lack of players, why is that? He's had money and refer to 1

5) Most importantly results

[AndyB]

So he is again living on one of our good runs, which we have about one a season

Which shows our potential. Then due to the penny pinching we have to sell players and not adequately cover injuries.

[RotherhamRam]

Ok then with the money he has had to spend, the restrictions on wages and players he has to release and sell, what is actually available to buy with the scant money we have.

Tell me who you would have kept over the last 2 1/2 yrs under Clough. Who would you have purchased with the money you have and what would be your current squad.

I personally think this squad although is Clough's squad is about as strong as you would get it. The injuries are killing us at moment and yet again we jump on Cloughs back because he is the manager which is fair enough. The question has to be and will always be when he is allowed to spend a million pound in an actual transfer deal he has signed excellant players for the money. Barker, Brayford, Bailey, and Shackell. 4 players in 3 yr when he could spend a million on a player or combined deal (I believe the majority of the money spent between Bailey/Brayford was actually spent on Brayford and Bailey was part of the deal for the future).

The thing is when you are only allowed to spend £200-£450k on players it really is hit and miss on what you get for your money as these are young and untested players. We are allowed to spend money on transfers this year let him spend it on the midfielder and striker as promised at the beginning of the season he would get us good players as his record when actually spend good money on players for me is 100%. I defy anybody who would argue to prove a point to say they do not want Barker, Brayford, Bailey and Shackell (Bris I know your view on Barker but you also know everyones view on your view of Barker so please do not cause this thread to go into an argument).

The questions I want answering are

1) out of players gone who would you have kept under Clough?

2) out of those players who could we actually afford to keep under the current boards parameters? (hulse went on footballing reasons, was this so Clough could actually sign players to cover the players leaving for example)

3) who would you have purchased with your money and this has to be realistic targets.?

4) Do you agree when Clough has been allowed to spend proper money on players he has brought excellently if not why not?

People criticise Clough and yes it is frustrating but no body has actually said what they would have done differently and how they would have managed it if they were in Cloughs position.

Me personally if I could have had a crystal ball to see how it is at the moment. If I was Clough I would have told Pearson to go away for another few years and stopped with Burton, gone into the football league where the board allowed him to maange the team spend money when it was needed. This would have

1) Not allow the fans not to hide behind the non-league title as an excuse for the mess the club in instead of looking at all the factors which are causing our club to struggle. This way as Clough my reputation would not be battered at a club where mine and the families heart rest

2) Some poor other fecker could have the ***** from the board, the fans, and the players holding the club for ransom i.e claude davis, bywater, etc

3) somebody else could deal with Glick and teach him the understanding of the practicalities of football.

I would then have waited for the sucker who would be doing Cloughs role as they would not have faired better as the board would not pay anymore money than they are paying for Clough and implement the 3 yr plan from then.

I have been pro-clough and pro-board admittedly. I have now come to look at the factors involved and I am no longer pro-board and I really hate the fecking board and Glick for what they have done to us as a club since they arrived, what they have done for us or what they haven't even succumbs that abysmal season in the prem league. What they have done in using Cloughs name in protecting their arse and turning fans against the Clough name. In respect of Clough although it is hard to support him in the current situation my exception of the inabilities of the board and Glick will stop me from asking Clough to leave. I will always support Derby and Clough (be it blind faith with clough and not going to justify my reasons for this). I want the board out and would welcome PG back and I have never supported him throughout this mess but can he come back now

Sorry for long post/rant feel better for it.

[RAMSINCE1969]

Original post below, not Clough out not Board out but soon they will be asking for our season ticket money again and i for one would like to see some serious investment in the squad possible two players that cost money in January

After watching the match tonight i personally think it is about time we made a stand

Has Clough got money to spend ?

Is Connor Doyle the best we can do ? (sorry to mention names but it is there for everyone to see)

A 15 year old lad in the starting line up

I know we have lots of injuries, and Clough is looking to the future but we are in danger of being dragged into the bottom six never mind the top six

Gates consistantly between 24-30 thousand deserve or are looking for quicker progress

I understand the Board are excellent custodians of the purse strings but i personally think they have gone a little over the top

If Clough has money to spend then questions need asking of the scouting network, which we have or have not got whatever the case maybe

Tonight we struggled to put two passes together.

I could go on, I have written this season off

I think we need to show this Board of our intentions, we let the inevitable happen this season and continue to struggle and what will be will be ,

The most valuable asset of DCFC is the fans the Data Base more valuable than the squad and the stadium put together

If the fans were to start asking for their data to be removed from the Clubs data base, this would give the club food for thought, the ability to sell Season tickets for next season would slowly diminish

The above idea would not affect this season in anyway, we continue to support the Team and the Players for the remainder of the season, howeve the ball would be firmly in the owners court

A supporter of 42 years and i do not want Clough out but i would like a little more ambition

[Bris Vegas]

Regardless of how much you spend, each manager has their own style of football, and Nigel Cloughs style (his 6th or 7th since he's been here) is sh*te.. Just absoloutle hoofball dogsh*te..

George Burley spend pittance here and played football, he spent big bucks at Southampton and played exacty he same..

Big Sam has played the same hoofball football at West Ham, Newcastle, Blackburn and Bolton..

Billy D spent hardly anything at Preston, then $8mill odd at Derby and played exactly the same

Steve Coppell played the same football at Palace, Brentford and Reading

Niel Warnock the same at Palace, Sheff Utd and QPR

The point I'm making is, NC can have $2mill or $10mill and he'll still install the same backroom staff, the same coaching methods, the same playing style.. He'll never buy a player like Commons even with $3mill, he'd buy a $3mill workhorse like Phil Neville.. His style is simply terrible, dull, unattracive and ametureish.. And we have him and this style for at least another 3 years as Glick won't get rid of him.

How many times does Fieding get the ball and both Roberts an Brayford turn their back and run to the halfway line.. Then Fielding just pumps it long to our tiny strikers.. NC order this, he wants long ball.. Because if not he'd be screaming at Fielding and his fullbacks for doing what they're doing..

And another question.. Where is Metgod these days? Where is his influence? He has been totally pushed out and his passing style has been completely ignored.

[RotherhamRam]

I was at the game today (in the home end with a lot of West Ham nutters around me, so kept pretty quiet!)

The ticket cost me £34, yet the level of entertainment on offer from the club I support was non-existent, as has generally been the case for several years now.

Derby had a great start to the season yes, but take out that spell and the purple patch around this time last year and we have consistently been one of the weakest sides in the Championship throughout Clough's time in charge and are pretty lucky to still be in the division.

Yes, the wage bill is down and the club is staying afloat financially, but there is zero progress on the field of play and Clough betrays time and time again that he cannot manage players well and is no closer to building an effective unit than he was two seasons ago.

Even with his hands tied to some extent by the board, I think another manager could be doing better. Clough and his backroom team have had longer than most to prove themselves but sooner or later something has to change or we will remain a bottom half Championship team which is simply not acceptable to me or 25 - 30,000 other fans.

Name a manager who has the credentials which would make the fans happy being at the club and make them think that things would be different straight away. The who out of these managers would accept the wages Clough is on, with not money to spend, not allowed to bring loan players in until the very last minute when the last fit first team player in a position is out injured.

If you think that a manager who would instantly make fans think great glad he is here would sign for us at the moment then sorry I would say as one thread as hinted at you and others are delusional.

If I was Clough I would leave not because of failure but because the board and the fans have never fully backed me, they compare me unfairly to my dad and if I am not careful this club will destroy any future I have in football because this is a poisoned chalace in football at this moment in time. Jewell, Davies, Burley, Gregory, All had credentials. Jewell left and had a further 2 years out of football cos of what was happening here, Burley quit in 2004/05 due to no funds, Davies had one good season and then blew up but had no support, Gregory never stood a chance.

I would not come to Derby and manage the team for a million a year until things change and change drastically