Enough

[Mr Tibbs]

I just fear for our season again. If it turns out like last season then I'll be very disappointed. So much promise this year. Actually thought we had improved as a team. Constant steps back.

[Alph]

I'm concerned that the players have decided that hard work and team spirit are enough.

I'm not really feeling that gloomy, but i cannot believe Nigel Clough is asking them to use Jamie Ward as a target man. I cannot believe he's assembled a team of 5 and half footers and want the ball in the sky. I can't believe he'd want players so scared of pressure on the ball that they'd hurry to pass it on.

I won't believe it.

The players themselves haven't played with much confidence all season. Effort, passion and for eachother, they've played 9/10's consistently.But they allow themselves to be bullied. They often seem happy to react in games rather than take control.

Nigel would surely be telling them to win the second ball. No way on earth, should a ball be travelling 40yards, 30ft in the air, and then when it comes down it's won TWICE by opponents. No way.

Maybe it's their ages and lack of experience, but some of these players (Shackell and Ward clear exceptions) have to grow that confidence. Have to have more aggression and take on responsibility. Have to express themselves. Have to get a bit fired up and inspire eachother.

I think that has to come from the players. Running a lot isn't enough. But i hope having Bailey, Barker and Green back will provide that. I hope. Because they allow themselves to be bullied too easily. They're waiting for something to happen. Waiting for someone else to do it for them.

Every team needs steady passengers. "Too many cooks...." and all that. But we do have a lot of passengers. Too many players a bit to willing to go with the flow. When things are going well they'll all show their qualities. But when things are going bad your asking Jamie Ward to do it all alone.

Submissive team.

[Day]

Excellent post well said, I entirely agree.

I just hope Clough outlasts the board and we get to see what he can really do with a reasonable budget.

I'd like to see what a decent manager would do with this squad that has had a reasonable amount of money spent on it.

[jcidaho]

I personally feel sorry for Clough has he is the manager he will get the blame and in some respects rightly so but this Board could not lie straight in bed at times if they wanted too.

Clough has had patience and more money to spend than most teams in this division. So scrap the "I feel sorry for Clough" rubbish. He's been given enough time and resources, and he's proved himself to be a poor manager.

[AndyB]

I think Clough should be sacked. He has had more money to spend than at most clubs in this league, yet during his tenure we have been one of the worst teams both performance and results wise. And can we please put the "he hasn't had much money to spend" argument to bed please. Look at the what he's spent before playing this tired old record.

In my option I would sack him because of:

• His results
  
• Negative tactics including his triers over talent philosophy
  
• His playing of Savage all of least year - a frankly embarrassing display of management ineptitude
  
• His buying players and then not playing them
  
• The way new players come in play well, then seem to get demotivated and play with fear
  
• His public slating of players
  

There's an element of gambling in sacking a manager and getting a new one. But the status quo holds more risk - attendances creeping down, wasted money on signings he doesn't like, and likely relegation.

I don't agree and I'm afraid we can't ignore the "he hasn't had much money to spend" because that is the fundamental issue. He hasn't. Fact. Frankly the way the board are running the club it would be unfair to judge Clough until they leave and we get a sensible board in place. However, most of his bargain basement signings have been excellent. I just hope he gets a decent budget and shows what he can do. It's unfair to compare him with Burley as the circumstances are very different.

[AndyB]

I'd like to see what a decent manager would do with this squad that has had a reasonable amount of money spent on it.

The only reason this is a decent squad is because Clough has been able to find good players on peanuts.

[jcidaho]

I think that has to come from the players.

Who manages, buys, and chooses to the play the players? The blame lies at the managers door.

[Day]

The only reason this is a decent squad is because Clough has been able to find good players on peanuts.

He's had more peanuts than other managers

[jcidaho]

I don't agree and I'm afraid we can't ignore the "he hasn't had much money to spend" because that is the fundamental issue. He hasn't. Fact. Frankly the way the board are running the club it would be unfair to judge Clough until they leave and we get a sensible board in place. However, most of his bargain basement signings have been excellent. I just hope he gets a decent budget and shows what he can do. It's unfair to compare him with Burley as the circumstances are very different.

Crazy. You're delusional. He's spent more than most teams. How much have we spent for this season? 2m, 3m?

If he spends near the middle-top of the table that's where we should be at least.

[RAMSINCE1969]

We need a couple of players who can turn a game, players who can produce a little magic players who cost money and are not described "as undisclosed fees", i think the wages of Cloughs new players are not on the total of Tevez salary

Sometimes class pays and would possible complement our "tryers"

[AndyB]

He's had more peanuts than other managers

Not many!

[Gary Teale]

Well it looks like unless we get bankrolled we cant think the manager did a poor job, We have two 1 million pound centre halfs in the team today, you wont find many in the champ who have spent this amount on two centre defenders. People keep telling me that Clough has inproved the back 4 yet we cant defend, if the players are better then its the coaching and that is down to the manger.

[AndyB]

Crazy. You're delusional. He's spent more than most teams. How much have we spent for this season? 2m, 3m?

If he spends near the middle-top of the table that's where we should be at least.

There's no way our budget is middle top of this league!

[Gary Teale]

There's no way our budget is middle top of this league!

Im sure someone can dig out the figures, but I would say it is high due to the number of players we have brought in

[Day]

The only reason this is a decent squad is because Clough has been able to find good players on peanuts.

Have to requote you on this because you say we have a "decent squad", if that's the case why are we not picking up results and why are you making GSE scapegoats?

[AndyB]

We have two 1 million pound centre halfs in the team today

That's a very selective view of how much Clough has allegedly spent. In 2011 it's more about wages than transfer fees. And anyway, what's wrong with Barker and Shackell and what's wrong with building from the back? Also, these two haven't played enough together yet to be judged!

[Gary Teale]

That's a very selective view of how much Clough has allegedly spent. In 2011 it's more about wages than transfer fees. And anyway, what's wrong with Barker and Shackell and what's wrong with building from the back? Also, these two haven't played enough together yet to be judged!

Clough has been building from the back for 3 years, have you seen how many goals we are letting in

[Alph]

Who manages, buys, and chooses to the play the players? The blame lies at the managers door.

I dunno mate.

I look at Derby, see quality (well, at least much as teams that do better than us). So for players purchased i'm happy.

The line ups he starts with i usually think are decent enough to get a result. Sometimes when we line up like tonight i start to think this team can do some real damage.

And then i see the ridiculous long balls to little Jamie Ward. The way the ball can and does roll around the edge of our area or in midfield before eventually an opponent ALWAYS takes initiative. I see a team of midgets start head tennis, or players that i KNOW are good. Players that i've seen play very well (Brayford, Bryson, Shackell and OB (in possession), Cywka, Maguire, Hendrick, Bailey, Green, Davies.... afraid to show for the ball. Afraid to take some sort of control. Express themselves.

I can't believe that Nigel would be sending them out to play like that.

[AndyB]

Have to requote you on this because you say we have a "decent squad", if that's the case why are we not picking up results and why are you making GSE scapegoats?

I was quoting you suggesting another manager would do well with this squad. I was just pointing out that that's because of Clough's ability to find bargains. I think it's a decent squad for the budget but not for a top 6 challenge as we were promised. The board are to blame in my view. With a bit of foresight we could have built from a position of strength last season or this summer but didn't.

[-JW-]

fielding 350k

Brayford and Bailey 1mil

Barker 1 mil

Shackell 1 mil

Roberts free

Bryson 400k

Green free

Davies 350k

Ward 400k

Priskin loan

Todays team. Just approximate figures. that team cost between 4-5 million, how much did West Ham pay for Nolan i would say 4 mil at least.