bcnram Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Fair enough and of course you are welcome to your opinion, however, Can I please suggest that you do not post links to violence at football games that you seem to think is linked to safe standing without any proof. You are just worsening the case into what is already a battle, posting links like you have does not help. If you have evidence "a quick look" as you state that proves safe standing is linked to trouble then go ahead and post as only right that fans get to see this side of it. I believe that all seater stadium were brought in for the right reason and even with 'safe standing' I would not like to see standing areas return; particularly to Derby. Germany appears to have a problem with violence attached to football clubs in the same way that England did at one time. The only common denominator I can see is standing areas where it is more difficult to identify those responsible. Having said that, if you believe I am distorting the argument against something you obviously believe in passionately then I am quite happy to duck out of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 The amount of injuries suffered by spectators in the Bundesliga is roughly the same as at Premier League matches (i.e.very low). There are something like 400 reported injuries each year in each league, despite the Bundesliga having higher attendances. Interesting fact: 31 people were injured falling off seats in the 2009/2010 season in England. How many were injured by terracing/standing up? I'll give you a clue, it's less than 31. Serves them right for standing on the seats 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I believe that all seater stadium were brought in for the right reason and even with 'safe standing' I would not like to see standing areas return; particularly to Derby. Germany appears to have a problem with violence attached to football clubs in the same way that England did at one time. The only common denominator I can see is standing areas where it is more difficult to identify those responsible. Having said that, if you believe I am distorting the argument against something you obviously believe in passionately then I am quite happy to duck out of the discussion. you are mixing causality with a correlation bcn, it is true while we had problems terracing was in place, however the problems have been largely eradicated not due to seating but due to better policing techniques and the like. Safe standing isn't a cause of hooliganism, it just happened that when hooliganism was rife terracing was in place. Do you think seats are going to stop hardened hooligans? the cctv is so good at the moment and the police are so much better at their jobs that i would be confident with safe standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 "Serves them right for standing on the seats 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />" Even if all of those people were doing so (which they probably weren't), then surely that provides an even stronger case for areas where fans can stand safely? I don't know why you seem to think Germany has some huge problem with fan violence, it's at a very low level compared to what it was like in the late 80's and early 90's (when it was at it's peak for them), and to make the link to the fact their grounds have standing areas and hooliganism seems very illogical to me. The violence isn't happening because fans are standing, but it happens for the same reasons it still happens here occasionally and elsewhere in the world, and standing up at the game isn't one of them. How can violence away from a stadium be blamed on the design of a stadium? If I sit down at the game, then go and kick lumps out of another bloke in town with a group of 50 other like minded people who also sat down at the game, does that mean that seats are to blame for football violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Even if all of those people were doing so (which they probably weren't), then surely that provides an even stronger case for areas where fans can stand safely? I don't know why you seem to think Germany has some huge problem with fan violence, it's at a very low level compared to what it was like in the late 80's and early 90's (when it was at it's peak for them), and to make the link to the fact their grounds have standing areas and hooliganism seems very illogical to me. The violence isn't happening because fans are standing, but it happens for the same reasons it still happens here occasionally and elsewhere in the world, and standing up at the game isn't one of them. How can violence away from a stadium be blamed on the design of a stadium? If I sit down at the game, then go and kick lumps out of another bloke in town with a group of 50 other like minded people who also sat down at the game, does that mean that seats are to blame for football violence? Personally, I do think you are being a tad naive if you firmly believe that there has been no correlation between standing on terracing and football related violence (Germany does have a bigger problem than us at the moment). I don't know of any data that supports the argument either way so it just seems to be that we both believe in different viewpoints... I have no problem with that so I am just going to duck out and get to the village pub for the last hour.... cheers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Personally, I do think you are being a tad naive if you firmly believe that there has been no correlation between standing on terracing and football related violence (Germany does have a bigger problem than us at the moment). I don't know of any data that supports the argument either way so it just seems to be that we both believe in different viewpoints... I have no problem with that so I am just going to duck out and get to the village pub for the last hour.... cheers!!! you mistake correlation for causation terracing isn't a cause of violence it just happens to be that where some trouble occurs terracing is present, your argument is slightly flawed in the fact that in argentina they have all seater stadiums in much of the top flight but it has rampant violence and gang culture is seating to blame? and why is there barely any ever trouble in the lower leagues or at peterborough? because seating is a correlation not a causation, please provide evidence germany has a big problem with football violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I can't speak for everyone, but for me and many lads of my generation, part of the appeal of football was the anonymity of the football terrace. I won't bother trying to make excuses for it. Its just how it was. To be on the Popside as a 15, 16 or 17 year old was to be part of a huge gang. You could hang around with older, harder lads who, away from football, wouldn't give you the time of day, but, just because you was Derby, you were in. In with the great heaving mass of fans from Derby and every corner of Derbyshire who loved DCFC, and anyone who didn't was the enemy. Less than 1% of it was the fighting, 99% of it was belonging, being part of a group of like minded lads who loved the togetherness, the camaradie, the craic, the banter, the humour, the adrenaline rush, the fear, the excitement, the sheer exhilaration of being part of the support of DCFC. You wore it like a badge. You went back to your towns, villages and estates with your head held high because you were Derby. You was Popside or Ossie End or later on, C stand. You could talk to non football mates about the danger, the riots, you could big it up and exaggerate your own involvement in it. It was a rite of passage, it was part of growing up. Just the fact that you had been to away games at Leeds, Stoke, Liverpool, Manchester, Tottenham, West Ham and Chelsea was proof that you was "hard". In small towns other mates would be impressed. It was the equivalent of having the most friends on facebook. That was what football hooliganism was. It were nowt more than lads from one town wanting to be seen to be harder than lads from another town. There was very little organised fighting in my day, that came later in the mid to late 80's and through the 90's. The 70's was just total mayhem, if you were an away fan then you were a target. You had dared to step foot on our manor, therefore you wanted to fight! Those days will never come back. Football stadiums are safe, sterile, well policed, and so they should be. A properly organised, safe-standing area in football grounds today, would never lead to the problems of the 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nookiebear Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 how can any supporter of derby county have a problem with tribal behaviour????? i suppose you clap when forest score(but only if its a good goal mind) for f ucks sake like the last poster said nobody wants the violence of the 80s but whats wrong with a bit of popside lets all av a disco, the banter, the singing, trying to intimidate the away fans and generally being part of this big tribe that i love....derby county...no better feeling....loved the popside, miss it...kids of today are missing out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekkie_ram Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 If it were the case that 'standing' leads to violence, then surely Peterborough would be a war zone every week? And that isn't even close to the safe standing set-up either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I can't speak for everyone, but for me and many lads of my generation, part of the appeal of football was the anonymity of the football terrace. I won't bother trying to make excuses for it. Its just how it was. To be on the Popside as a 15, 16 or 17 year old was to be part of a huge gang. You could hang around with older, harder lads who, away from football, wouldn't give you the time of day, but, just because you was Derby, you were in. In with the great heaving mass of fans from Derby and every corner of Derbyshire who loved DCFC, and anyone who didn't was the enemy. Less than 1% of it was the fighting, 99% of it was belonging, being part of a group of like minded lads who loved the togetherness, the camaradie, the craic, the banter, the humour, the adrenaline rush, the fear, the excitement, the sheer exhilaration of being part of the support of DCFC. You wore it like a badge. You went back to your towns, villages and estates with your head held high because you were Derby. You was Popside or Ossie End or later on, C stand. You could talk to non football mates about the danger, the riots, you could big it up and exaggerate your own involvement in it. It was a rite of passage, it was part of growing up. Just the fact that you had been to away games at Leeds, Stoke, Liverpool, Manchester, Tottenham, West Ham and Chelsea was proof that you was "hard". In small towns other mates would be impressed. It was the equivalent of having the most friends on facebook. That was what football hooliganism was. It were nowt more than lads from one town wanting to be seen to be harder than lads from another town. There was very little organised fighting in my day, that came later in the mid to late 80's and through the 90's. The 70's was just total mayhem, if you were an away fan then you were a target. You had dared to step foot on our manor, therefore you wanted to fight! Those days will never come back. Football stadiums are safe, sterile, well policed, and so they should be. A properly organised, safe-standing area in football grounds today, would never lead to the problems of the 70's. What he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Also what he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Safe Standing Roadshow coming to Derby on 10th January. Top, top stuff Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therams69 Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Safe Standing Roadshow coming to Derby on 10th January. Top, top stuff Nick. HA HA!!! You are quite right it is!!! It will be the 10 January 2011 and will be in the evening between 6pm - 8pm. I am currently in the process of finding a suitable venue, as soon as I do I will create a new thread and advise!! Great news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 HA HA!!! You are quite right it is!!! It will be the 10 January 2011 and will be in the evening between 6pm - 8pm. I am currently in the process of finding a suitable venue, as soon as I do I will create a new thread and advise!! Great news! Glad that's the proposed time, means I should be able to get to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 HA HA!!! You are quite right it is!!! It will be the 10 January 2011 and will be in the evening between 6pm - 8pm. I am currently in the process of finding a suitable venue, as soon as I do I will create a new thread and advise!! Great news! Pride Park??????? Just a thought 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoetheRam Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Good article in the programme today by Nick Britten of the Daily Telegraph regarding Safe Standing, discussing it's many benefits, whilst answering possible criticisms of the system very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Good read here....Wembley architech says safe standing is ok http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/Wembley-architect-Safe-standing-is-no-problem.php?id=.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It's cheaper per person, but you can get almost twice as many people in so they get more money from it every game. But...we HAVE a fully functioning all seated stadium, so, if we change an area to "safe standing area" this is going to cost money, and the people who have got to absorb this has GOT to be those using the new standing area, hence it has to be more expensive to stand. For me, standing belongs in history, it was great in the day, but then again so was a back perm, pods and farahs...and you can keep them too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I liked pods,I also liked standing.Standing also gives you the opportunity to move away from annoying fans talking/shouting nonsense.I wish I could do that at the moment where I sit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I liked pods,I also liked standing.Standing also gives you the opportunity to move away from annoying fans talking/shouting nonsense.I wish I could do that at the moment where I sit. Me to, but its in the past. Taking 20 minutes to go to the bog then having to fight your way back to your place, having to get to the ground at 1:30 so you get a decent view. Keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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