Doesn’t Phillips have to start

[Curtains]

!

[Rich3478]

Thought he was poor when he came on, gave the ball away a couple of times. Nelson and cashin did the same all game though.

[Ghost of Clough]

Only when we need to change shape.

Since Blackburn we've only conceded 3 goals in 5 league games (4 in 7 in all competitions), so we seem to be doing something right defensively. Our 433 is a solid platform to build off, and shouldn't change the back 4 unless necessary.

We have somewhat struggled for goals in that period, with 6 goals in 5 games. There could be an argument to put Phillips in to get us playing with wing backs and push more players forward when attacking. But that still leaves us with Elder (could he now be out injured?), Forsyth (not suited to the wing back role), and Osborn (needed at CM) for that left wing back position. You'd also have to drop Nyambe who has done very well in the RB role so far this season. If playing 352, we're then forced to drop one of Mendez-Laing or Jackson, with the other playing at CF. If playing 343, you then have to drop Goudmijn to ensure adequate balance in midfield. Overall, there are too many compromises at this moment in time for Phillips to change shape.

I think we need to persevere with 433, and work on our passing so we don't continue to give the ball away so cheaply. It might not be until next summer before we have a deep enough squad to play we'll on a consistent basis. As we are, one injury to one of our main starters results in us being a bit one dimensional - Ozoh, Goudmijn, Jackson, Mendez-Laing and Yates will be key for us this season.

[Eoghan1884]

I wonder with elders injury what Warne will do, he could switch to a 5-2-3 system with Osborn at lwb and Phillips in the back three or could do a straight swap for Fozzy. Wouldn’t mind seeing a back 5 as Ozoh and Elder are good ball carriers where as Forsyth and Osborn are more controlled footballers. If we had Kane and Osborn as wing backs with Kenzo allowed to roam with Ebou holding the space it could up our creativity a lot aswell as allowing Nyambe and Fozzy to be well rested for Sunderland away which will be tough. 

[Curtains]

30 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Only when we need to change shape.

Since Blackburn we've only conceded 3 goals in 5 league games (4 in 7 in all competitions), so we seem to be doing something right defensively. Our 433 is a solid platform to build off, and shouldn't change the back 4 unless necessary.

We have somewhat struggled for goals in that period, with 6 goals in 5 games. There could be an argument to put Phillips in to get us playing with wing backs and push more players forward when attacking. But that still leaves us with Elder (could he now be out injured?), Forsyth (not suited to the wing back role), and Osborn (needed at CM) for that left wing back position. You'd also have to drop Nyambe who has done very well in the RB role so far this season. If playing 352, we're then forced to drop one of Mendez-Laing or Jackson, with the other playing at CF. If playing 343, you then have to drop Goudmijn to ensure adequate balance in midfield. Overall, there are too many compromises at this moment in time for Phillips to change shape.

I think we need to persevere with 433, and work on our passing so we don't continue to give the ball away so cheaply. It might not be until next summer before we have a deep enough squad to play we'll on a consistent basis. As we are, one injury to one of our main starters results in us being a bit one dimensional - Ozoh, Goudmijn, Jackson, Mendez-Laing and Yates will be key for us this season.

The thing is if you play with 3 at the back you need to use attacking wing backs so I take the point about Elder if he is injured and it doesn’t help that Kane Wilson and Ward have struggled with injuries.

Forsyth and Nyambe can’t plays as wing backs so if we stay as a 4- 3-3 then Phillips would replace one of Cashin or Nelson and where does this leave Sonny Bradley 

PS We struggled yesterday as we have in all 3 away games. 
 

Edited Sunday at 12:44 by Curtains
Added

[Carl Sagan]

I don't get the "Fozzy can't play wingback" comments. If we had Ozoh fit then it would be more obvious to play Osborn there, but time and again Forsyth has proved the doubters wrong and shown he is capable of doing what is necessary. 

But interesting that Warne went for Blackett-Taylor there yesterday. 

One thing that's clear is the squad has emerged significantly stronger from the transfer window, and it's a sign of this that it's tough to fit all our strongest players into the starting 11.

[Day]

2 hours ago, Curtains said:

!

Covering both bases here.

If this is a he should have been playing….

What have the defence done wrong since Phillips arrival and yesterday? Nothing so it would have been harsh to disrupt it.

Even now after conceding one via a free kick, not sure Warne would have been itching to change the back line.

As the cliche goes, you have to earn your place in the team and whilst the team is playing well, it’s harder to get in.

Going forward? Possibly due to injuries, I can see Warne more out of necessity changing it up for Norwich and that would potentially see Phillips given his chance.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, Day said:

Covering both bases here.

If this is a he should have been playing….

What have the defence done wrong since Phillips arrival and yesterday? Nothing so it would have been harsh to disrupt it.

Even now after conceding one via a free kick, not sure Warne would have been itching to change the back line.

As the cliche goes, you have to earn your place in the team and whilst the team is playing well, it’s harder to get in.

Going forward? Possibly due to injuries, I can see Warne more out of necessity changing it up for Norwich and that would potentially see Phillips given his chance.

I tend to agree but for my own personal view I’d start Phillips as my first defensive choice full stop 

[Ramarena]

No

[Curtains]

14 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

No

Reasons.   
Both centre backs poor away from home 

[brady1993]

18 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Only when we need to change shape.

Since Blackburn we've only conceded 3 goals in 5 league games (4 in 7 in all competitions), so we seem to be doing something right defensively. Our 433 is a solid platform to build off, and shouldn't change the back 4 unless necessary.

We have somewhat struggled for goals in that period, with 6 goals in 5 games. There could be an argument to put Phillips in to get us playing with wing backs and push more players forward when attacking. But that still leaves us with Elder (could he now be out injured?), Forsyth (not suited to the wing back role), and Osborn (needed at CM) for that left wing back position. You'd also have to drop Nyambe who has done very well in the RB role so far this season. If playing 352, we're then forced to drop one of Mendez-Laing or Jackson, with the other playing at CF. If playing 343, you then have to drop Goudmijn to ensure adequate balance in midfield. Overall, there are too many compromises at this moment in time for Phillips to change shape.

I think we need to persevere with 433, and work on our passing so we don't continue to give the ball away so cheaply. It might not be until next summer before we have a deep enough squad to play we'll on a consistent basis. As we are, one injury to one of our main starters results in us being a bit one dimensional - Ozoh, Goudmijn, Jackson, Mendez-Laing and Yates will be key for us this season.

In large part I agree with your argument but I think we've only looked genuinely solid when Ozoh and Adams have played. Against Sheff Utd I don't think we could have grumbled if we'd have shipped 2 or 3 by half time. 

Maybe it's like you've said in that it's just a case of persevering, trying to work with what we've got and acknowledging injuries are going to be severely disruptive. As I think a big part of why we looked shaky against Sheff Utd and second half versus Cardiff is that complete lack of cohesion in deeper midfield areas. I'm just far from convinced that we can make a coherent midfield with both Adams and Osborn in it. Thompson might help or you could potentially move Goudmijn deeper if you accept a bit of risk. But there isn't a solution I can think of that I'd be completely happy with. 

I do disagree that you'd have to drop Goudmijn for 343 though. Structurally 343 isn't that dissimilar to a 433 and I don't the midfielders necessarily have that rigidity positionally like you'd typically need in a '4 man' midfield. You'd just need to think about you utilise the wing backs. It might not be feasible but I don't thinks its something that's set in stone that he can't be accommodated in that system.

[angieram]

17 hours ago, Curtains said:

Reasons.   
Both centre backs poor away from home 

I don't think they have been particularly poor given the quality of the opposition and way we've been set up.

At Blackburn we were done by quality forwards when the defence was left exposed by us chasing the game a little too naively. 

For the amount of attacking they did on Saturday, we restricted Sheffield United to very few real chances.

It was a midfielder who (rather unfortunately imo) gave away the free kick that won them the game. Our defense had collectively dealt with everything else. And I include our goalkeeper in that.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, angieram said:

I don't think they have been particularly poor given the quality of the opposition and way we've been set up.

At Blackburn we were done by quality forwards when the defence was left exposed by us chasing the game a little too naively. 

For the amount of attacking they did on Saturday, we restricted Sheffield United to very few real chances.

It was a midfielder who (rather unfortunately imo) gave away the free kick that won them the game. Our defense had collectively dealt with everything else. And I include our goalkeeper in that.

I think we were more cohesive and less rushed when Phillips came on. 
I’m not having a go at Cashin and Nelson but the Championship is way different from Div 1 

We need to retain the ball better 

I think particularly 2nd half we gave the ball away cheaply 

[MadAmster]

Looks like Elder is out for a couple of weeks or more going on what PW said post match. Do we put Fozzy at LB or do we go for a back 3? A back 3 could be Nyambe, Nels and Cash who have played together as a back 3 in the past but that would still mean no place for Phillips unless you play him as a DM. Playing a back 3 of Phillips, Nels and Cash would see Nyambe dropped which would be harsh on him. Might we see a 4 of Nyambe, Nels, Phillips, Cash?

Midfield. Ozoh and Tommo are out, probably until the next international break so they aren't options. Is one possible option playing Phillips in the back 4 in place of Cash and play Cash at DM as he started life in football as a midfielder?

So many choices. I'm glad I don't have to make the choice. 

 

[Allen]

6 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Looks like Elder is out for a couple of weeks or more going on what PW said post match. Do we put Fozzy at LB or do we go for a back 3? A back 3 could be Nyambe, Nels and Cash who have played together as a back 3 in the past but that would still mean no place for Phillips unless you play him as a DM. Playing a back 3 of Phillips, Nels and Cash would see Nyambe dropped which would be harsh on him. Might we see a 4 of Nyambe, Nels, Phillips, Cash?

Midfield. Ozoh and Tommo are out, probably until the next international break so they aren't options. Is one possible option playing Phillips in the back 4 in place of Cash and play Cash at DM as he started life in football as a midfielder?

So many choices. I'm glad I don't have to make the choice. 

 

Fozzy for Elder, straight swap. He won’t let us down.

[angieram]

2 hours ago, Curtains said:

I think we were more cohesive and less rushed when Phillips came on. 
I’m not having a go at Cashin and Nelson but the Championship is way different from Div 1 

We need to retain the ball better 

I think particularly 2nd half we gave the ball away cheaply 

We did, running out of energy and couldn't bring on like for like subs.

But as others have said, Phillips gave the ball away too. It was more the numbers of having an extra man at the back, than any individual, for me.

[tomsdubs]

We are defending well last few games so no, don't change something that is working in my opinion.

[Sharp_Ram]

No

[Premier ram]

7 hours ago, angieram said:

I don't think they have been particularly poor given the quality of the opposition and way we've been set up.

At Blackburn we were done by quality forwards when the defence was left exposed by us chasing the game a little too naively. 

For the amount of attacking they did on Saturday, we restricted Sheffield United to very few real chances.

It was a midfielder who (rather unfortunately imo) gave away the free kick that won them the game. Our defense had collectively dealt with everything else. And I include our goalkeeper in that.

Spot on , no way would I class our central defenders as poor

[Jourdan]

We have kept three clean sheets in six league games and conceded just three in five games since Blackburn away, two of which were goals of real quality (Bayo’s volley and Hamer’s free kick). It shows that we are learning and adjusting, albeit not without some moments of panic.

It looks like Warne will persist with 4-3-3 or a variant of that, so Phillips will have to bide his time until Cashin and Nelson really fall below the standard or indeed make game defining errors.

There are 40 plus games to play (if you include the FA Cup) so there will be plenty of chances for Phillips to make his mark. 

The midfield balance in front of the defence is more of a concern, let’s be honest. Ozoh and Thompson are both out and Osborn hasn’t really reached full fitness and got into a rhythm.