24/25 Sky TV Coverage

[CBX1985]

34 minutes ago, Leeds Ram said:

I tend to think this will simply lead to an inflationary effect across the market more widely. If we derby county were getting more money alone then this would hold well. However, we aren't- everyone else is too. The task simply remains the same... compete with a relatively small budget where we have to scout creatively to get best value for money. 

I would challenge that very very slightly.  Against our peers, yes; but we are in a global transfer market.

Being able to tap up unknowns from secondary leagues (like Sweden) based on our higher income is an advantage over those clubs.  Your point only works on comparative advantage terms if we are competing only against other Championship clubs for the same players.  Find someone outside that structure and we have benefited enormously.

 

[Leeds Ram]

58 minutes ago, CBX1985 said:

I would challenge that very very slightly.  Against our peers, yes; but we are in a global transfer market.

Being able to tap up unknowns from secondary leagues (like Sweden) based on our higher income is an advantage over those clubs.  Your point only works on comparative advantage terms if we are competing only against other Championship clubs for the same players.  Find someone outside that structure and we have benefited enormously.

 

It's less the income from those clubs but what they're demanding to let someone go. As we learned under Mel expectations in this market can inflate transfer fees. Clubs outside the UK will be aware of the tv deal, our bigger budgets and demand higher prices for their talent in turn. I tend to think this won't really change who we can afford massively. We'll still have to be, as I said in my previous post, creative in our scouting and going to markets which others haven't thought of. 

[CBX1985]

Just now, Leeds Ram said:

It's less the income from those clubs but what they're demanding to let someone go. As we learned under Mel expectations in this market can inflate transfer fees. Clubs outside the UK will be aware of the tv deal, our bigger budgets and demand higher prices for their talent in turn. I tend to think this won't really change who we can afford massively. We'll still have to be, as I said in my previous post, creative in our scouting and going to markets which others haven't thought of. 

They will be aware, that is true.  But a price is only what someone is willing to pay - and what they are willing to accept.  Neither side to a transaction is a supplicant - let's say someone earns £100k pa. You wish to sell them your car and you know this.  You might try to boost the price as they earn a good wage.  if they say no, the value of that knowledge is nought - as you cannot force them to buy and unless someone else offers what you are asking you have to back down (or not sell).

The sideways issue is that the club was offered this money.  We don't have to accept the TV deal.  But, should we turn it down we would be relegated in short order as everyone else would have that money and we would not.  We cannot possibly match the income by our own streaming let alone beat it.  

 

 

 

 

  

 

[Mostyn6]

14 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

8pm midweek games mean my 5 year old cannot attend, how is that helping the game if it prevents children from attending games.

not trying to be argumentative, but as long as I've been consciously following football, there have always been midweek 7:45pm/8:00pm games, particularly in 46 game seasons outside of the top flight. Not sure a 15 minute adjustment for TV is worth kicking up a fuss about, you can easily lose 15 minutes in traffic leaving.

[Kathcairns]

4 hours ago, MadAmster said:

Is this the beginning of the end of football as a spectator sport?

Sky get their new deal. Year 1 clubs sell as many STs as they usually do. Come the end of the season, fans realise they can watch most games at home for less than the price of an ST. Or you could watch it in the Neppy. Year 2 a fair few decide to do exactly that. Year 3 even more. etc..  Year 6, new Sky deal. DCFC gates down to 16K, maybe? Other clubs seeing similar drops in attendances. That may well see less advertising at grounds, sponsors less willing to pay as much. Clubs would then be reliant on Sky for funding.... 

This is, naturally, a worst case scenario but it's a very plausible one.

Agree, i love the atmosphere which you dont get watching tv, but my husband is an armchair fan, but will never give my season ticket up till i physically cant get anymore.😊

[Ravanelli]

5 hours ago, MadAmster said:

Is this the beginning of the end of football as a spectator sport?

Sky get their new deal. Year 1 clubs sell as many STs as they usually do. Come the end of the season, fans realise they can watch most games at home for less than the price of an ST. Or you could watch it in the Neppy. Year 2 a fair few decide to do exactly that. Year 3 even more. etc..  Year 6, new Sky deal. DCFC gates down to 16K, maybe? Other clubs seeing similar drops in attendances. That may well see less advertising at grounds, sponsors less willing to pay as much. Clubs would then be reliant on Sky for funding.... 

This is, naturally, a worst case scenario but it's a very plausible one.

My view is the opposite. For every season ticket holder who gives up to watch on TV there will be another fan who gets introduced to football through TV who wants to go to the real thing. 
 

This is why attendances are rising not dropping. 
 

Compare PL attendances now to the 80s before Sky started. They are double. 
 

TV is a great form of advertising that most brands would die to be on. 

[MadAmster]

1 hour ago, Kathcairns said:

Agree, i love the atmosphere which you dont get watching tv, but my husband is an armchair fan, but will never give my season ticket up till i physically cant get anymore.😊

I won't be giving up my RamsTV subscription as long as they exist. I'll still fly over for 8 or so games a season. That's about as far as my pension allows, financially. DTID.

[B4’s Sister]

I don’t mind the 12:30pm matches, I would prefer that to a 3:00pm kick off. 5:30pm over Xmas is an awkward time. 

[Ghost of Clough]

3 hours ago, Ravanelli said:

I read somewhere a few years back that us, Leeds, f0re5t always had the best viewing figures hence we were shown more than others. 
 

I’ll bet they see WBA as a favourite for promotion hence the early weighting in fixtures for them. 

Out of current Championship clubs, the most picked last season were Leeds (24), West Brom (14), Sunderland (12), Birmingham (10), Preston (10) and Coventry (9). Southampton, Ipswich and Leicester were in the top 4, whilst Birmingham also had at least 10 games shown.

[Ravanelli]

45 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Out of current Championship clubs, the most picked last season were Leeds (24), West Brom (14), Sunderland (12), Birmingham (10), Preston (10) and Coventry (9). Southampton, Ipswich and Leicester were in the top 4, whilst Birmingham also had at least 10 games shown.

That's more than 50% of Leeds games and thats before the new deal showing all midweek and BH games !

[Carnero]

4 hours ago, Ravanelli said:

I read somewhere a few years back that us, Leeds, f0re5t always had the best viewing figures hence we were shown more than others. 
 

I’ll bet they see WBA as a favourite for promotion hence the early weighting in fixtures for them. 

I remember John Percy saying a while back on a podcast that the domestic tv numbers for championship games involving Derby, Leeds & Forest regularly beat half of the Premier league clubs numbers and were comparable with Everton.

Edited July 31 by Carnero

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Carnero said:

I remember John Percy saying a while back on a podcast that the domestic tv numbers for championship games involving Derby, Leeds & Forest regularly beat half of the Premier league clubs numbers and were comparable with Everton.

23/24 - The opening weekend of the Championship was the most watched on Sky Sports ever, with an average of 631,000 viewers across all four matches.

That was a weekend when PL football wasn't shown. If I remember correctly, Leeds would average around 450k, with Derby around 380k.Bottom end PL games drop down to around 300k, with the biggest clashes clocking in over 2m viewers - a few peak at 4m.

 

[Matchday Fred]

So lots of Sat 3pm games being televise live. The blackout only applies if more than 50% of games in the top two divisions are being played Sat 3pm. This is usually not the case as so many games are being pushed into Friday, Sunday and Monday. So Sky are using control of the schedule to circumvent the blackout, which to be honest is an outdated relic anyway.

[YouRams]

14 minutes ago, Matchday Fred said:

So lots of Sat 3pm games being televise live. The blackout only applies if more than 50% of games in the top two divisions are being played Sat 3pm. This is usually not the case as so many games are being pushed into Friday, Sunday and Monday. So Sky are using control of the schedule to circumvent the blackout, which to be honest is an outdated relic anyway.

This is what baffles me, they won't show 3pm games because of effects on match day attendance but will move fixtures to daft days and times that have more of an effect on attendance, make it make sense.

[CBX1985]

1 hour ago, YouRams said:

This is what baffles me, they won't show 3pm games because of effects on match day attendance but will move fixtures to daft days and times that have more of an effect on attendance, make it make sense.

It is that they are not moving them for our attendance.  They move them so that we would watch Belper Town.  The theory being that very small clubs depend on the timeslot, and the lack of televised football, to get people to stump up for a ticket.

It feels antiquated in this day and age, I would agree.

 

[WorcestershireRam]

22 hours ago, MadAmster said:

Is this the beginning of the end of football as a spectator sport?

Sky get their new deal. Year 1 clubs sell as many STs as they usually do. Come the end of the season, fans realise they can watch most games at home for less than the price of an ST. Or you could watch it in the Neppy. Year 2 a fair few decide to do exactly that. Year 3 even more. etc..  Year 6, new Sky deal. DCFC gates down to 16K, maybe? Other clubs seeing similar drops in attendances. That may well see less advertising at grounds, sponsors less willing to pay as much. Clubs would then be reliant on Sky for funding.... 

This is, naturally, a worst case scenario but it's a very plausible one.

It is an interesting question. I do think football is changing and becoming much more Americanised as a sport. American ticket prices for sport are sky high and it is seen as an event rather than just about what happens on the pitch. I listen to the Price of Football and they have some interesting views on this especially in the premier league. Clubs like Chelsea, Man City, Man United don’t want season ticket holders, because they want to sell tickets to tourists for more money then get them buying merchandise, food, drink and pumping money into the club as it’s purely a business. 
 

I appreciate Derby aren’t at that level with waiting lists for tickets etc but you do normally get that trickle down effect. With the influence of clubs like Wrexham, Birmingham, Burnley…. Football is very sexy at the moment; the Americans love our game and are already starting to influence it. 

[MadAmster]

2 hours ago, WorcestershireRam said:

It is an interesting question. I do think football is changing and becoming much more Americanised as a sport. American ticket prices for sport are sky high and it is seen as an event rather than just about what happens on the pitch. I listen to the Price of Football and they have some interesting views on this especially in the premier league. Clubs like Chelsea, Man City, Man United don’t want season ticket holders, because they want to sell tickets to tourists for more money then get them buying merchandise, food, drink and pumping money into the club as it’s purely a business. 
 

I appreciate Derby aren’t at that level with waiting lists for tickets etc but you do normally get that trickle down effect. With the influence of clubs like Wrexham, Birmingham, Burnley…. Football is very sexy at the moment; the Americans love our game and are already starting to influence it. 

Interesting. There was a conversation in an FB group based on a post on X where an Ipswich supporter was advocating banning season tickets as he didn't want to watch 19 games a season, just 4 or 5. The general consensus was that his "4 or 5" were likely to be Liverpool, the 2 Manchester teams, Arsenal and Chelsea. Cherry picking games to the detriment of those following their team at most, if not all games, home and away.

At Pride Park the infrastructure is in place to expand to a 44K stadium "once the club is established in the PL". I would wager that we'd fill it to 40K or over against the 5 teams named above, Newcastle, Villa, Everton, Leicester, Forest, Spurs, West Ham and Wolves of the current PL clubs.

A drop back to the SBC and a drop back to 30K crowds would make the ground look empty.

[Gritstone Ram]

On 31/07/2024 at 08:24, MadAmster said:

Is this the beginning of the end of football as a spectator sport?

Sky get their new deal. Year 1 clubs sell as many STs as they usually do. Come the end of the season, fans realise they can watch most games at home for less than the price of an ST. Or you could watch it in the Neppy. Year 2 a fair few decide to do exactly that. Year 3 even more. etc..  Year 6, new Sky deal. DCFC gates down to 16K, maybe? Other clubs seeing similar drops in attendances. That may well see less advertising at grounds, sponsors less willing to pay as much. Clubs would then be reliant on Sky for funding.... 

This is, naturally, a worst case scenario but it's a very plausible one.

I suppose it depends what you go to the game for. I see it more of a day out a tradition and a chance to see family and spend some time doing something we enjoy. I think Maybe to combat the decline in people attending have the 15:00 kick offs even if the match is on tv. The kick off times is what puts me off more.

Edited August 1 by Gritstone Ram

[Animal is a Ram]

On 30/07/2024 at 19:14, VulcanRam said:

@Animal is a Ram  West Brom boxing day is at home isn't it? You have it down as an away game and I've already organised my day around it re family coming etc!

 

You're indeed correct, my apologies for any consternation I may have caused with my brain fart!

[CBX1985]

On 31/07/2024 at 08:24, MadAmster said:

Is this the beginning of the end of football as a spectator sport?

Sky get their new deal. Year 1 clubs sell as many STs as they usually do. Come the end of the season, fans realise they can watch most games at home for less than the price of an ST. Or you could watch it in the Neppy. Year 2 a fair few decide to do exactly that. Year 3 even more. etc..  Year 6, new Sky deal. DCFC gates down to 16K, maybe? Other clubs seeing similar drops in attendances. That may well see less advertising at grounds, sponsors less willing to pay as much. Clubs would then be reliant on Sky for funding.... 

This is, naturally, a worst case scenario but it's a very plausible one.

I think it will make little difference this season or any.  People will adapt; they always do.  

I do like Saturday games over mid week, but I don't see the obsession over 3pm which is of itself an unusual time.  I prefer lunchtime kick offs, others might prefer an evening.  The 3pm element is only longed for as it is what we have known. 

Same with Sunday games.  In many regards, there is less to do on a Sunday so those might be popular.  

Secondly, clubs are reliant on Sky for funding and who are we to tell owners that pump their money in that they should eschew TV money so that 3pm can be maintained ..  Sky will be paying very similar to our entire gate receipt for the entire year.  Plymouth, it is likely they are paying twice there's.  It is not going away.