Mowbray sacked

[G STAR RAM]

Good, Sunderland let our accumulator down at the weekend and cost us £4300.

On a completely different note, the Sporting Director, who it appears is calling the shots at Sunderland, is a guy I went to school with and was previously at Derby County.

[Returning ram]

8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Warne is struggling because we aren’t in the top two. The playoffs aren’t a given and there is no consolation for getting there and losing in them.

This league is bereft of quality. And if we don’t get promoted this season, Warne should be gone IF options like Mowbray are still available.

6 points from the top 2. 
You sum it up perfectly for me, being a better manager (which is in your opinion) doesn't guarantee success, which was Mels problem.

He thought all you had to do was throw money at it, thankfully our owner has more sense than a lot on here who wanted PW sacked weeks ago.

[Returning ram]

8 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Mel panicked when results weren't as smooth as he had hoped, barged into the changing room and undermined Clement, then results spiralled out of control. He then waited until the end of the season before hiring a permanent manager. Hardly the same as sacking a manager for a better manager, is is being implied here.

He literally let PC spend millions weeks before removing him, the point is that there was no planning behind his madness. Why bring in a manager give him only one proper transfer window and sack him every time a "better" manager becomes available. 
 

In his eye's he replaced him with a better manager, doesn't mean they are the right manager though.

[Ghost of Clough]

33 minutes ago, Returning ram said:

He literally let PC spend millions weeks before removing him, the point is that there was no planning behind his madness. Why bring in a manager give him only one proper transfer window and sack him every time a "better" manager becomes available. 
 

In his eye's he replaced him with a better manager, doesn't mean they are the right manager though.

But he didn't sack Clement when a better manager was available. He waited several months before hiring a replacement. Clement was sacked after just 1 win in 9 games - the cup game vs Hartlepool which we had to come back from 1-0 down. Of course, it didn't help that Mel barged into the changing room after the 4th game (losing only 1 of them), and the 1 defeat (and 4 draws) in the previous 19 games wasn't a mitigating factor.

However, the original point was likening the replacement of one manager with another when in the Playoff positions as a 'Mel Morris kind of thing', which obviously isn't the case. The closest was replacing Mac the 2nd time to replace him with Rowett, but even that was after 1 win in 10 games.

[Mucker1884]

12 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Warne was always a short-term option to get out of League One. He is struggling with that.

 

 

Wasn't he given a 4 year contract?
Wasn't there a 5 year plan to become established in The Championship?
What am I missing, here?

 

etc, etc...

[Returning ram]

15 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

But he didn't sack Clement when a better manager was available. He waited several months before hiring a replacement. Clement was sacked after just 1 win in 9 games - the cup game vs Hartlepool which we had to come back from 1-0 down. Of course, it didn't help that Mel barged into the changing room after the 4th game (losing only 1 of them), and the 1 defeat (and 4 draws) in the previous 19 games wasn't a mitigating factor.

However, the original point was likening the replacement of one manager with another when in the Playoff positions as a 'Mel Morris kind of thing', which obviously isn't the case. The closest was replacing Mac the 2nd time to replace him with Rowett, but even that was after 1 win in 10 games.

Doesn't matter if they were in play offs or outside, the point is, it's a Mel Morris knee jerk reaction kind of thing. Just a few months before PC was the Fergie of the club, then at the first sign of poor form, he is gone, no thought about the long term impact it has on the club, just a "I'll Chuck a few more million to try to put it right". Do you think he sacked him and thought Wassall would do a worse job 😉

Same here, PW is 6 points from play offs and let's replace him with another manager because he is "better". So if we did that and he didn't get promotion, what then, sack him and bring the next one in who is "better", as I said, MM scatter gun approach.

[Crewton]

Mowbray might have a better reputation than Warne for football style and player development but his win % is virtually identical and his success has always come at teams who were one of the bigger fishes in the particular pond they were swimming in, not a team averaging under 10,000 attendance.

If Warne walked, he'd be a decent replacement, but there's no compelling evidence for asserting he'd do a better job.

[oomarkwright]

Heckingbottom would do a good job there, although it seems a desperate move to sack Mowbray. 🤷

[May Contain Nuts]

38 minutes ago, Crewton said:

there's no compelling evidence for asserting he'd do a better job.

There's compelling evidence that he knows how to get promoted to and manage in the Championship while developing young players, which is 100% a match toward our aim of becoming an established Championship club and making best use of our Category One Academy.

There's compelling evidence that Warne is a total bust at Championship level and none that he can develop young players.

If we could have got him before we gave Rosenior the interim role or appointed Warne - there was a window of potential availability but we don't know if he'd have come - we should have.

Edited December 6, 2023 by May Contain Nuts

[Crewton]

29 minutes ago, May Contain Nuts said:

There's compelling evidence that Warne is a total bust at Championship level and none that he can develop young players.

There's also compelling evidence that keeping Rotherham in the Championship isn't the piece of cake that some make it out to be. 

Mowbray has also been relegated twice and dismissed from pretty much every manager's job he's had (however harshly in some cases) apart from his first one.

I still think it's an unconvincing case for saying he'd do a better job than Warne is, but I'm sure many fans would be happy with him as an option if the position became vacant.

[Ram-Alf]

13 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

It’s literally exactly what Morris did the Clement. Well placed in the playoffs, but a boring style of play, sacked. The point is, if we’re laughing at Sunderland for being stupid for sacking a manager when they’re just outside the playoffs, how stupid would we be for sacking a man anger when we’re actually in the play offs. 

There's a reason why Clement was sacked and it aint nowt to do with "the Derby way" 😉

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Crewton said:

There's also compelling evidence that keeping Rotherham in the Championship isn't the piece of cake that some make it out to be. 

Mowbray has also been relegated twice and dismissed from pretty much every manager's job he's had (however harshly in some cases) apart from his first one.

I still think it's an unconvincing case for saying he'd do a better job than Warne is, but I'm sure many fans would be happy with him as an option if the position became vacant.

Hibs - Manager of the Year in 04/05 after finishing 3rd. Only matched once since), and 4th in his 2nd season.
West Brom - Poached from Hibs, he was promoted from the Championship within 2 seasons (league's top scorers in both seasons). Relegated by 3 points in the PL
Celtic - poached from WBA, but lasted less than a season because he failed to improve on the 2nd place finish from the season before under Strachan.
Boro - achieved Boro's best finish since relegation (7th), but fairly sacked after a poor 12/13 season and only 2 wins in 13 at the start of 13/14
Coventry - achieved an 8th place finish in League 1 after 3 consecutive bottom half finishes under other managers. Sacked at the start of the next season which resulted in relegation.
Blackburn - took over with 15 games left to the season. 22 points from 15 games (only 3 defeats) wasn't enough to keep them up as they got relegated on goal difference. Won immediate promotion, then steadily improved the squad and achieved an 8th place finish before choosing not to renew his contract.
Sunderland - finished 6th in his first season, then sacked 3 points outside the playoffs

7 clubs. 1 Manager of the Year, 2 promotions, and a highest place finish for several years at 6 out for 7 clubs isn't a bad record to have.

[Returning ram]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Hibs - Manager of the Year in 04/05 after finishing 3rd. Only matched once since), and 4th in his 2nd season.
West Brom - Poached from Hibs, he was promoted from the Championship within 2 seasons (league's top scorers in both seasons). Relegated by 3 points in the PL
Celtic - poached from WBA, but lasted less than a season because he failed to improve on the 2nd place finish from the season before under Strachan.
Boro - achieved Boro's best finish since relegation (7th), but fairly sacked after a poor 12/13 season and only 2 wins in 13 at the start of 13/14
Coventry - achieved an 8th place finish in League 1 after 3 consecutive bottom half finishes under other managers. Sacked at the start of the next season which resulted in relegation.
Blackburn - took over with 15 games left to the season. 22 points from 15 games (only 3 defeats) wasn't enough to keep them up as they got relegated on goal difference. Won immediate promotion, then steadily improved the squad and achieved an 8th place finish before choosing not to renew his contract.
Sunderland - finished 6th in his first season, then sacked 3 points outside the playoffs

7 clubs. 1 Manager of the Year, 2 promotions, and a highest place finish for several years at 6 out for 7 clubs isn't a bad record to have.

And yet 5 clubs decided to part ways with him, seems owners don't agree with that assessment.

[Crewton]

17 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Hibs - Manager of the Year in 04/05 after finishing 3rd. Only matched once since), and 4th in his 2nd season.
West Brom - Poached from Hibs, he was promoted from the Championship within 2 seasons (league's top scorers in both seasons). Relegated by 3 points in the PL
Celtic - poached from WBA, but lasted less than a season because he failed to improve on the 2nd place finish from the season before under Strachan.
Boro - achieved Boro's best finish since relegation (7th), but fairly sacked after a poor 12/13 season and only 2 wins in 13 at the start of 13/14
Coventry - achieved an 8th place finish in League 1 after 3 consecutive bottom half finishes under other managers. Sacked at the start of the next season which resulted in relegation.
Blackburn - took over with 15 games left to the season. 22 points from 15 games (only 3 defeats) wasn't enough to keep them up as they got relegated on goal difference. Won immediate promotion, then steadily improved the squad and achieved an 8th place finish before choosing not to renew his contract.
Sunderland - finished 6th in his first season, then sacked 3 points outside the playoffs

7 clubs. 1 Manager of the Year, 2 promotions, and a highest place finish for several years at 6 out for 7 clubs isn't a bad record to have.

I wasn't suggesting that it was a bad record at all.