Tyler Durden Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Consensus of which group of people and what were they judging them on? I'm just guessing again, but that judgement will be based against the quality within their squad. Whilst the squad can be overperforming, that doesn't mean the club is too. They're being very wasteful with their money, hence why they're underperforming against their budget. The popular media. The expectation at the start of the season that notwithstanding having the highest wage bill in the entire leagues Man Utd wouldn't finish as high as 3rd. But we have one of the highest wage bills in the league allegedly but already there are people moaning that we are underachieving. As I've said previously the size of the wage bill is no way connected to the quality of the squad. It is as best is a very casual link. Which then will bring you to say that as a club we have spent poorly so to preempt that whose fault is this as you invariably will want to pin the blame on someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTom92 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 32 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: The popular media. The expectation at the start of the season that notwithstanding having the highest wage bill in the entire leagues Man Utd wouldn't finish as high as 3rd. But we have one of the highest wage bills in the league allegedly but already there are people moaning that we are underachieving. As I've said previously the size of the wage bill is no way connected to the quality of the squad. It is as best is a very casual link. Which then will bring you to say that as a club we have spent poorly so to preempt that whose fault is this as you invariably will want to pin the blame on someone Unfair comparison in my opinion. The lower you go in the leagues the more telling finances will become. Look at Wrexham, had a massive budget in comparison to others and looked a class above (apart from Notts County who deserve credit). Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool etc all pay astronomical fees to get the very best players. Just because Utd pay a tad more doesn’t mean they should win the league…Yes before you say anything I’m aware that applies to Derby as well. But for saying we only got relegated because of admin and points deductions one would assume the core squad is good enough for top 6. We may still achieve that target, but when Warne himself is saying that as things stand we’re underperforming I don’t think fans should be dragged over hot coals for suggesting similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, TomTom92 said: Unfair comparison in my opinion. The lower you go in the leagues the more telling finances will become. Look at Wrexham, had a massive budget in comparison to others and looked a class above (apart from Notts County who deserve credit). Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool etc all pay astronomical fees to get the very best players. Just because Utd pay a tad more doesn’t mean they should win the league…Yes before you say anything I’m aware that applies to Derby as well. But for saying we only got relegated because of admin and points deductions one would assume the core squad is good enough for top 6. We may still achieve that target, but when Warne himself is saying that as things stand we’re underperforming I don’t think fans should be dragged over hot coals for suggesting similar. Lots of assumptions in there which I did also flag to the OP. Unfortunate choice of words too as I don't see any evidence of any fans being dragged over the coals for having the temerity to suggest that this team is underperforming (whatever that actually means) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondest Goat Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said: The popular media. The expectation at the start of the season that notwithstanding having the highest wage bill in the entire leagues Man Utd wouldn't finish as high as 3rd. But we have one of the highest wage bills in the league allegedly but already there are people moaning that we are underachieving. As I've said previously the size of the wage bill is no way connected to the quality of the squad. It is as best is a very casual link. Which then will bring you to say that as a club we have spent poorly so to preempt that whose fault is this as you invariably will want to pin the blame on someone Where do you go for your arguements on the days that you don't come on here? Ghost of Clough 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said: The popular media. The expectation at the start of the season that notwithstanding having the highest wage bill in the entire leagues Man Utd wouldn't finish as high as 3rd. But we have one of the highest wage bills in the league allegedly but already there are people moaning that we are underachieving. As I've said previously the size of the wage bill is no way connected to the quality of the squad. It is as best is a very casual link. Which then will bring you to say that as a club we have spent poorly so to preempt that whose fault is this as you invariably will want to pin the blame on someone It's quite simple. The better players demand more money, so a team with better players will be spending more on wages. It's the same reason why people bemoan parachute payments - it gives them more money than the rest of the league to spend on players to strengthen their squads. Choose any league. The teams with bigger budgets tend to be towards the top, and the teams with smaller budgets tend to be towards the bottom. There is a very obvious and direct trend. In fact, if you look in even more detail, you'll find that most clubs in the PL will earn around 1 point for every £3m they spend on wages. You can probably guess the 3 clubs who perform the worst (Man Utd, Everton and Chelsea), just like you can guess the 2 clubs who perform the best (Brentford and Brighton). That's 3 clubs who are ran poorly and 2 clubs who are ran as perfectly as you can imagine. You have the same in this division, where Charlton with one of the biggest budgets have been midtable for the last few seasons, whilst the likes of Burton, Exeter and Shrewsbury outperform their bottom 6 budgets. If you are placed lower in the table than your wage bill suggests, then it is reasonable to look at the possible reasons for inefficient use of money. After all, why would you not look into that if a team with half your budget is higher than you in the league? There must be something you can do better to to be higher than them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTom92 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 59 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Lots of assumptions in there which I did also flag to the OP. Unfortunate choice of words too as I don't see any evidence of any fans being dragged over the coals for having the temerity to suggest that this team is underperforming (whatever that actually means) Where do you think we should finish? Squad and finances considered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 41 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said: Where do you go for your arguements on the days that you don't come on here? Weird comment as am sure you're one of the ones who moan about not being allowed trap out the same stuff ad nauseam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, TomTom92 said: Where do you think we should finish? Squad and finances considered? I said at the start of the season that by the end of the season I would expect us to be in the top 6 Seeing as it's not even half way through that season then the talk of underperforming is totally inappropriate. Just to show I'm not totally myopic I do think our consistency needs to improve. Edited October 20, 2023 by Tyler Durden On the Ram Page and TomTom92 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: It's quite simple. The better players demand more money, so a team with better players will be spending more on wages. It's the same reason why people bemoan parachute payments - it gives them more money than the rest of the league to spend on players to strengthen their squads. Choose any league. The teams with bigger budgets tend to be towards the top, and the teams with smaller budgets tend to be towards the bottom. There is a very obvious and direct trend. In fact, if you look in even more detail, you'll find that most clubs in the PL will earn around 1 point for every £3m they spend on wages. You can probably guess the 3 clubs who perform the worst (Man Utd, Everton and Chelsea), just like you can guess the 2 clubs who perform the best (Brentford and Brighton). That's 3 clubs who are ran poorly and 2 clubs who are ran as perfectly as you can imagine. You have the same in this division, where Charlton with one of the biggest budgets have been midtable for the last few seasons, whilst the likes of Burton, Exeter and Shrewsbury outperform their bottom 6 budgets. If you are placed lower in the table than your wage bill suggests, then it is reasonable to look at the possible reasons for inefficient use of money. After all, why would you not look into that if a team with half your budget is higher than you in the league? There must be something you can do better to to be higher than them. That's so wrong lol So slabhead you'd classify as one of the better players at Man Utd cos he's on what 200 grand a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: That's so wrong lol So slabhead you'd classify as one of the better players at Man Utd cos he's on what 200 grand a week Where have I said that? I have never said the more you pay an individual, the better they are. Maguire would fall under the "inefficient use of money" category which I have mentioned several times in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Where have I said that? I have never said the more you pay an individual, the better they are. Maguire would fall under the "inefficient use of money" category which I have mentioned several times in this thread. You said the better players demand more money, have you forgotten that already. Look up to refresh your memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondest Goat Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 50 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Weird comment as am sure you're one of the ones who moan about not being allowed trap out the same stuff ad nauseam I've only really chipped into this debate when people have either been rude or have made outrageous claims to support their opinions. I think we've under-performed but Warne should be given more time as it happens but most of the guff posted in this debate comes from those in the "Warne in" camp who for some reason seem to take any criticism levelled at him personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreveram Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Blondest Goat said: Where do you go for your arguements on the days that you don't come on here? I’ve told you once.😂 YorkshireRam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Blondest Goat said: I've only really chipped into this debate when people have either been rude or have made outrageous claims to support their opinions. I think we've under-performed but Warne should be given more time as it happens but most of the guff posted in this debate comes from those in the "Warne in" camp who for some reason seem to take any criticism levelled at him personally. I've made a conscious decision not to come on here lately to avoid some of the aspersions you've incorrectly made in your reply - but this isn't singular to yourself so not trying to pick you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said: You said the better players demand more money, have you forgotten that already. Look up to refresh your memory You know full well that was made as a general statement and not an absolute rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldben Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) Warne challenged squad to score more goals. Hm ... so why didn't he buy a decent striker in the summer instead of more players at the end of their careers. https://therealefl.co.uk/2023/10/20/derby-county-manager-identifies-key-concern-with-squad/ Edited October 20, 2023 by Oldben Added content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Oldben said: Warne challenged squad to score more goals. Hm ... so why didn't he buy a decent striker in the summer instead of more players at the end of their careers. https://therealefl.co.uk/2023/10/20/derby-county-manager-identifies-key-concern-with-squad/ “In fairness, I’m not expecting the team to win 4-0 every week. Portsmouth are top of the league, they haven’t lost, they haven’t been blowing teams away. They’ve just been quietly going about their business and winning games but they are outscoring us, and if you want to be in the top six, you just have to score more goals. “I think collectively, the team know that, whether it’s from set pieces or open play, we need to get more goals into us. “I don’t think there’s a lot wrong but without scoring goals, fundamentally your position in the league shows there is a lot wrong.” What?! Edited October 20, 2023 by RoyMac5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hintonsboots Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: “In fairness, I’m not expecting the team to win 4-0 every week. Portsmouth are top of the league, they haven’t lost, they haven’t been blowing teams away. They’ve just been quietly going about their business and winning games but they are outscoring us, and if you want to be in the top six, you just have to score more goals. “I think collectively, the team know that, whether it’s from set pieces or open play, we need to get more goals into us. “I don’t think there’s a lot wrong but without scoring goals, fundamentally your position in the league shows there is a lot wrong.” What?! RoyMac5 and europia 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 10 hours ago, Tyler Durden said: Lots of assumptions in there which I did also flag to the OP. Unfortunate choice of words too as I don't see any evidence of any fans being dragged over the coals for having the temerity to suggest that this team is underperforming (whatever that actually means) underperform = perform less well than expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean (hick) Saunders Posted October 20, 2023 Share Posted October 20, 2023 How good is our squad? If we had a top quality L1 goal scorer then excellent. As we don’t, then just fairly decent. (That’s how important that position is) With injuries, creaking a bit. Oldben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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