Curtains Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Of course I care that our squad is good enough for League 1. I glad we are still a Football club with a decent squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Curtains said: I glad we are still a Football club with a decent squad I think Clowes would expect somewhat more than that for the money he has put into our budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 16 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: So who would they play instead of? Are you saying they didn't come here because we have better players already in their positions? Like-for-like or positionally? 2 fullbacks, a CM, a #10, and a striker- all fit the formation we currently employ: Harris for Collins/Waggy, Rodrigues for one of the roles behind the #9, Branagan in the midfield, then Brown for Fozzy, and Leigh for Wilson. I've not once talked about why ''they didn't come here''; though ironically, the 2 linked- Rodrigues and Harris, were both swayed by money apparently, and it had nothing to do with Warne... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said: Like-for-like or positionally? 2 fullbacks, a CM, a #10, and a striker- all fit the formation we currently employ: Harris for Collins/Waggy, Rodrigues for one of the roles behind the #9, Branagan in the midfield, then Brown for Fozzy, and Leigh for Wilson. I've not once talked about why ''they didn't come here''; though ironically, the 2 linked- Rodrigues and Harris, were both swayed by money apparently, and it had nothing to do with Warne... Harris has scored less than Collins and Waggy, both historically and this season. He'd be in our squad but not an absolute guaranteed starter. Brannon is good but Rodrigues better than Bird or Sibley?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I think Clowes would expect somewhat more than that for the money he has put into our budget. I don’t think Dave Clowes expects to go up this season and if we don’t he will come under pressure to sack Warne. Its a building process from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkley Ram Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: Dunno, I lost track of who was good enough for League 1 and who wasn't ages ago! Seems Paul Warne is both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 On 17/10/2023 at 17:18, YorkshireRam said: Not a fan of that rhetoric. If you're going to make claims with specifics like ''top 3'', you need some empirical data to back that up. The 3 relegated clubs may have retained players whose wages exceed ours- I don't know, but that's the point. Attempting to use an unqualified claim like that as a stick to beat Warne with isn't a great look... Also in your final paragraph earlier- why is Warne the singular factor in whether a player decides to join? Money could be a factor ie. the rumoured Rhodes incident. There's so many factors outside Warne's control, why are you linking everything back to him? Stating ''it still ultimately falls back on Warne'' is untrue, and just reduces the credibility of your overall argument because it just appears reductionist. In most cases, the most recent accounts for clubs in this division are a useful indication of current budget. There is a lack of financial information available regarding Port Vale, Leyton Orient, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Wycombe, Northampton and Stevenage. However, it it very reasonable to make the assumption that these "small companies" also have smaller wage bills than ours. Whilst there is limited data for Bristol Rovers and Oxford, the data which is available would suggest an absolute maximum wage bill of £9.2m and 7.7m respectively. It seems fairly obvious that Oxford have pushed the boat out a bit this summer, and will likely be around the £9-10m mark. Reading were put under a £16m wage cap for last season in the Championship. With a significant drop in revenue and an owner seemingly unwilling to put more money in the club, anything higher than £8m seems unlikely. Wigan had a £13m wage bill when promoted last time, but are reportedly under tighter control this time. That brings us on to the rest, who have all disclosed their wage bill in the most recent accounts. Charlton - £10.6m Bolton - £10.2m Barnsley - £8.1m Portsmouth - £7.9m Blackpool - £7.7m Peterborough - £7m Fleetwood - £6.2m Lincoln - £6.2m Burton - £5.1m Shrewsbury - £4.4m Exeter - £4m Carlisle - £3.4m My "top 3" budget claim is therefore very valid since a conservative estimate would put us at £10m. sage 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 33 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: In most cases, the most recent accounts for clubs in this division are a useful indication of current budget. There is a lack of financial information available regarding Port Vale, Leyton Orient, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Wycombe, Northampton and Stevenage. However, it it very reasonable to make the assumption that these "small companies" also have smaller wage bills than ours. Whilst there is limited data for Bristol Rovers and Oxford, the data which is available would suggest an absolute maximum wage bill of £9.2m and 7.7m respectively. It seems fairly obvious that Oxford have pushed the boat out a bit this summer, and will likely be around the £9-10m mark. Reading were put under a £16m wage cap for last season in the Championship. With a significant drop in revenue and an owner seemingly unwilling to put more money in the club, anything higher than £8m seems unlikely. Wigan had a £13m wage bill when promoted last time, but are reportedly under tighter control this time. That brings us on to the rest, who have all disclosed their wage bill in the most recent accounts. Charlton - £10.6m Bolton - £10.2m Barnsley - £8.1m Portsmouth - £7.9m Blackpool - £7.7m Peterborough - £7m Fleetwood - £6.2m Lincoln - £6.2m Burton - £5.1m Shrewsbury - £4.4m Exeter - £4m Carlisle - £3.4m My "top 3" budget claim is therefore very valid since a conservative estimate would put us at £10m. That's a lot of words to not really dispute my point. Lots of ''likely'' and ''estimates''. I don't mind speculation, but it's immediately invalidated when utilised in a critical capacity because the easy defence, as I'll put up here, is you could be entirely wrong, and can't prove you aren't... How have you calculated your 'conservative estimate'? Salarysport lists us at £7,873,840 per annum. While that's likely also slightly wayward, they do break down individual wages. The original point, which I just had to check since this has become fairly convoluted, was that Warne had a big enough budget that any 'extenuating factors' are overridden- I don't believe that's true and I believe there's more to it than 'Paul Warne only wanted to sign free agents'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said: That's a lot of words to not really dispute my point. Lots of ''likely'' and ''estimates''. I don't mind speculation, but it's immediately invalidated when utilised in a critical capacity because the easy defence, as I'll put up here, is you could be entirely wrong, and can't prove you aren't... How have you calculated your 'conservative estimate'? Salarysport lists us at £7,873,840 per annum. While that's likely also slightly wayward, they do break down individual wages. The original point, which I just had to check since this has become fairly convoluted, was that Warne had a big enough budget that any 'extenuating factors' are overridden- I don't believe that's true and I believe there's more to it than 'Paul Warne only wanted to sign free agents'. However. Should, woulda, coulda or likely and estimates are all well and good. The plain fact is we will or may never know how much the budget actually is or whether PW only wanted free agents. All purely speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicman Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) Assuming everyone is fit these are my squads . Wildsmith Nyambe Nelson Cashin Fozzy Smith Fornah Bird Barks Collins Hourihane Vickers Wilson Rooney Bradley Elder Thomo Robinson Sibley NML Washington Waggy Difficult to find a spot for Ward albeit he could interchange with Wilson. Edited October 19, 2023 by Magicman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaianoPOTY98 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, Magicman said: Assuming everyone is fit these are my squads . Wildsmith Nyambe Nelson Cashin Fozzy Smith Fornah Bird Barks Collins Hourihane Vickers Wilson Rooney Bradley Elder Thomo Robinson Sibley NML Washington Waggy Difficult to find a spot for Ward albeit he could interchange with Wilson. So your playing 4 x central midfield players in your 1st line-up? Is so thats bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicman Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, BaianoPOTY98 said: So your playing 4 x central midfield players in your 1st line-up? Is so thats bizarre. Bird in the 10 role Hourihane on the left nothing bizarre about those - round pegs in round holes better than a knackered NML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaianoPOTY98 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, Magicman said: Bird in the 10 role Hourihane on the left nothing bizarre about those - round pegs in round holes better than a knackered NML So Sibley scoring 2 x goals the other night doesnt have any bearing on your selection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 47 minutes ago, Magicman said: Bird in the 10 role Hourihane on the left nothing bizarre about those - round pegs in round holes better than a knackered NML Hourihane on the left wing is the exact opposite of round pegs in round holes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Magicman said: Assuming everyone is fit these are my squads . Wildsmith Nyambe Nelson Cashin Fozzy Smith Fornah Bird Barks Collins Hourihane Vickers Wilson Rooney Bradley Elder Thomo Robinson Sibley NML Washington Waggy Difficult to find a spot for Ward albeit he could interchange with Wilson. Wildsmith Nyambe Nelson Cashin Fozzy Fornah Bird NML Sibley Barks Waghorn Vickers Wilson Bradley Rooney Elder Thompson Smith Ward Hourihane Washington Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 hours ago, YorkshireRam said: That's a lot of words to not really dispute my point. Lots of ''likely'' and ''estimates''. I don't mind speculation, but it's immediately invalidated when utilised in a critical capacity because the easy defence, as I'll put up here, is you could be entirely wrong, and can't prove you aren't... How have you calculated your 'conservative estimate'? Salarysport lists us at £7,873,840 per annum. While that's likely also slightly wayward, they do break down individual wages. The original point, which I just had to check since this has become fairly convoluted, was that Warne had a big enough budget that any 'extenuating factors' are overridden- I don't believe that's true and I believe there's more to it than 'Paul Warne only wanted to sign free agents'. Individual salaries are put out in the public domain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said: Individual salaries are put out in the public domain? Nope, but it gives more context to the total figure; they've essentially 'showed their working' which is what I was wanting to compare with the methodology for how £10m was reached as a figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said: Nope, but it gives more context to the total figure; they've essentially 'showed their working' which is what I was wanting to compare with the methodology for how £10m was reached as a figure. When you've studied football club accounts as much as I have over the last however many years you tend to get a good idea of what a club is spending. Looking at anything like Salary Sport as an indication of what a club is spending on wages is a complete waste of time and are wildly out. You'd be just as well informed if you used the latest Football Manager as evidence of a club's wage bill. As an example, Bolton had a wage bill of over £10m in 21/22, yet Salary Sport at the time had them down as just £3.3m Other examples being Burton (£5.1m vs £3.8m), Charlton (£10.6m vs £6.1m), Portsmouth (£7.9m vs £4.3m), etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 22 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: When you've studied football club accounts as much as I have over the last however many years you tend to get a good idea of what a club is spending. Looking at anything like Salary Sport as an indication of what a club is spending on wages is a complete waste of time and are wildly out. You'd be just as well informed if you used the latest Football Manager as evidence of a club's wage bill. As an example, Bolton had a wage bill of over £10m in 21/22, yet Salary Sport at the time had them down as just £3.3m Other examples being Burton (£5.1m vs £3.8m), Charlton (£10.6m vs £6.1m), Portsmouth (£7.9m vs £4.3m), etc... Again, a lot of words to still not explain how you've arrived at the arbitrary figure of £10m... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicman Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Hourihane on the left wing is the exact opposite of round pegs in round holes He is let footed crosses from that side more often than not but would not be the NML style wide man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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