Gotta love Extinction Rebellion

[therealhantsram]

36 minutes ago, David said:

Any kind of confrontational, loud, disrupting and flat out annoying campaigns forced on people will not work.

I beg to differ on this. There are many examples from history that tell us it does work. 

 

 

[Archied]

7 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Most of them are connected to the rich families, its all a bit of theatre to cause a diversion and create division amongst us.

Yep the bored middle classes with not enough real problems in they’re lives to occupy them ,,, catastrophe, drama , doom , look at me how selfless and caring I am, yawn yawn yawn , it’s about time the guardian did an expose on they’re lack of diversity and inclusion 😂😂😂😂

[Archied]

I’ve had a thought that might help the mayor of london , we see terrible numbers dying from knife crime with families ripped apart at the loss of children and family members he seems uninterested in ,,,, charge £12.50 per day to carry a knife mr mayor ,

real indisputable numbers of deaths and tragedy not a squeak , let’s concentrate on fictional deaths where there money to be made 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Archied

[Stive Pesley]

39 minutes ago, David said:

Slowly might be a stretch, it’s slower than that. 

Without wanting to get too political here, the next general election oil will not be even talked about, you know what will?

So then Kier and Rishi, can women have a penis?

You will have your staunch followers of either side where candidates could murder babies for fun with sledgehammers in maternity wards and still get their vote because could never vote for them.

The swingers, not those kind, will be arguing over women’s anatomy. The only oil to make it into parliament will be olbas oil to help with any sniffles.

The just stop oil crowd isn’t big enough slice of the voting pie to be even be worthy of a single promotional leaflet.

Already it’s been knocked off Sky News homepage for a woman that jumped in a car for 2.5miles of a marathon, same with the BBC.

The conversation is very brief and does not gain enough traction to stay relevant in the news.

I know - depressing innit? 

We probably deserve to die as a species in all honesty 😂

[Ram-Alf]

52 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

I beg to differ on this. There are many examples from history that tell us it does work. 

 

 

Oooops

 

[GboroRam]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

I know - depressing innit? 

We probably deserve to die as a species in all honesty 😂

Well good news... 

[Highgate]

8 hours ago, Archied said:

I think about that kind of stuff all the time , it’s called living , there are trade offs for EVERYTHING we do , you are happy to conclude the extreme from ONE DEATH not 4000 Londoners every year ,it’s a made up figure from the model that air pollution may SHORTEN our live by a few days over the course of our lifetime , is the mayor banning cars ? No , he is making big money from it ,

sorry , you have your views and that’s fine as I’ve said before but I cannot subscribe to this plucking number out the air to create fear and justify taking yet more money off ordinary working people , as I say all I see is money money money , tax tax tax , trickle down economics?  More like pour up economics 🤷🏻‍♂️

It's an estimate, probably a reasonably accurate one based on the relevant expert medical opinion.  It's misleading to suggest that they know the figure accurately, but really nobody can argue with the fact that in the UK thousands, probably tens of thousands, of people die as a result of air pollution each year.  Therefore it's a huge problem  (and always has been, ever since humans started burning things), and it makes perfect sense for politicians to highlight it as such. 

[Highgate]

3 hours ago, David said:

In my experience in people I talk to, see on social media and absorb opinions from so not factual with stats to back this up.

Those that believe we have no issues with regards to the environmental damage and climate change are very much in the minority, the problem is those that are willing to make changes to their holiday plans, cars they buy, miles they drive are also the minority.

My mates a vegan, will bore you to tears about the environment and methane that comes out a cows backside, trying to make me feel responsible for the death of the planet. He will then tell me about the cruise around the med he’s going on before driving away in either his Range Rover or Impreza.

When you point out the hypocrisy it’s taken down the animal cruelty path as he has no leg to stand on.

It’s laughable. 

I would bet you will find hypocrites amongst these Just Stop Oil lot as well, when their actions are making you late for work, dropping your kids off at school, seeing harmless events like Snooker delayed because they want to chuck either orange paint or powder about, whilst it may not alienate, I’m not sure they will win that many over either.

Not that it matters, as the goal is to have a conversation they say, they see it as a win that it makes the headlines, yet the conversations that follow that I see are not they have point you know, it’s more on where are the Police and it’s time to start issuing tougher punishments too deter these types of protests.

So what is the point here, the government are not listening, the protests are not gaining the support needed that will increase pressure to where it could be key in winning the next general election.

They need to go back to basics, start with education, get high profile scientists on board, social media, set up non intrusive stalls in city centres not shouting in megaphones or harassing people, simply being there and allowing people the freedom to approach and ask questions.

Any kind of confrontational, loud, disrupting and flat out annoying campaigns forced on people will not work.

Going back to the vegans, they make great points on the cruelty aspects, yet they take this morale high ground shouty down approach that just makes you want to say, piss off. 

 

Also not wishing to get political, but the first past the post electoral system currently used in the UK prevents any genuine Green party political movement from developing.  Or any other minor political movement for that matter.  It's a system that is simply not fit for purpose in a modern democracy and serves only to preserve an everlasting status quo in my opinion.  

That may be part of the reason that some people like XR felt that radical measures were required.  As it turned out, many of the things they did were probably counter-productive. Had a Green Party been allowed to exist in parliament, maybe there wouldn't have been an XR at all.   

[Archied]

20 minutes ago, Highgate said:

It's an estimate, probably a reasonably accurate one based on the relevant expert medical opinion.  It's misleading to suggest that they know the figure accurately, but really nobody can argue with the fact that in the UK thousands, probably tens of thousands, of people die as a result of air pollution each year.  Therefore it's a huge problem  (and always has been, ever since humans started burning things), and it makes perfect sense for politicians to highlight it as such. 

As I say , I don’t agree , it’s a suck your finger and hold it in the air method just like so much of the stuff quoted by the extremists who always base they’re argument on stuff THEY proclaim is a given which is not and build from there , ONE recorded death in what ? 20 odd years ? As I say I’m ok with the statement that air pollution probably contributes to shortening some life expectancy s by a few days over a life time but that in now way causes 4000 deaths a year of Londoners , that’s a massive stretch bold statement that I’ve asked you to back up with hard evidence and you can’t , there’s stuff you and I and everyone can agree on regards wanting cleaner more sustainable planet but it all falls down on scales , how achievable it is and the trade offs 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Archied]

18 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Also not wishing to get political, but the first past the post electoral system currently used in the UK prevents any genuine Green party political movement from developing.  Or any other minor political movement for that matter.  It's a system that is simply not fit for purpose in a modern democracy and serves only to preserve an everlasting status quo in my opinion.  

That may be part of the reason that some people like XR felt that radical measures were required.  As it turned out, many of the things they did were probably counter-productive. Had a Green Party been allowed to exist in parliament, maybe there wouldn't have been an XR at all.   

But the status quo across the first past the post two parties is this unilateral net zero lunacy and I would bet my left nut that given the cost to lives in so many ways would be thrown out by the people in a second given a referendum 🤷🏻‍♂️, perhaps evidenced by the need for the kind of stunts performed over and over again by the same repeat offenders 

[Highgate]

17 minutes ago, Archied said:

As I say , I don’t agree , it’s a suck your finger and hold it in the air method just like so much of the stuff quoted by the extremists who always base they’re argument on stuff THEY proclaim is a given which is not and build from there , ONE recorded death in what ? 20 odd years ? As I say I’m ok with the statement that air pollution probably contributes to shortening some life expectancy s by a few days over a life time but that in now way causes 4000 deaths a year of Londoners , that’s a massive stretch bold statement that I’ve asked you to back up with hard evidence and you can’t , there’s stuff you and I and everyone can agree on regards wanting cleaner more sustainable planet but it all falls down on scales , how achievable it is and the trade offs 🤷🏻‍♂️

Obviously I haven't conducted any research myself but I did send you 5 links that I considered relevant. The evidence you requested is within those.  Just take the first link for example, click on Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution  just a few lines down from the top of the page.  There's a report there with more than 120 pages of evidence there for you to get started with.  I hope the Royal College of Physicians' have more luck persuading you about the dangers of Air Pollution than I do. 😄

[GboroRam]

7 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Obviously I haven't conducted any research myself but I did send you 5 links that I considered relevant. The evidence you requested is within those.  Just take the first link for example, click on Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution  just a few lines down from the top of the page.  There's a report there with more than 120 pages of evidence there for you to get started with.  I hope the Royal College of Physicians' have more luck persuading you about the dangers of Air Pollution than I do. 😄

Have you got anything by a bloke on YouTube instead? 

[Archied]

6 minutes ago, Highgate said:

Obviously I haven't conducted any research myself but I did send you 5 links that I considered relevant. The evidence you requested is within those.  Just take the first link for example, click on Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution  just a few lines down from the top of the page.  There's a report there with more than 120 pages of evidence there for you to get started with.  I hope the Royal College of Physicians' have more luck persuading you about the dangers of Air Pollution than I do. 😄

yep you cover it well with the line above ,,, the LIFELONG impact of air pollution , there are not 4000 deaths a year of Londoners from air pollution, it really is that simple , one extremely sad case of the death of a little girl in the last 20 years , no epidemic of children in the same or similar areas dying from air pollution, what you show is estimated very short drop in life expectancy which I’m ok to accept,

im 62 , have worked in a coal mine ,  building sites breathing in all sorts , most sites in london in the polluted air you claim to be killing me , I’ve smoked from about ten years old , I expect my life will be shortened by a variety of these and other things but I’m busy living it and making the most of it which I suggest these stressed out anxiety filled youngsters and retired teachers would really benefit from because no matter how you try there is No garuantee, no magic formula, we humans can and do peg it all too often without rhyme or reason to why our time is up🤷🏻‍♂️

[Archied]

18 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Have you got anything by a bloke on YouTube instead? 

Do you use u tube ? Supposed to be some decent golf instruction stuff on there , welcome back ,,nice flight ?

[GboroRam]

11 minutes ago, Archied said:

Do you use u tube ? Supposed to be some decent golf instruction stuff on there , welcome back ,,nice flight ?

No, the Internet also works for the dozens of people who live in other countries. 

[Highgate]

17 minutes ago, Archied said:

yep you cover it well with the line above ,,, the LIFELONG impact of air pollution , there are not 4000 deaths a year of Londoners from air pollution, it really is that simple , one extremely sad case of the death of a little girl in the last 20 years , no epidemic of children in the same or similar areas dying from air pollution, what you show is estimated very short drop in life expectancy which I’m ok to accept,

im 62 , have worked in a coal mine ,  building sites breathing in all sorts , most sites in london in the polluted air you claim to be killing me , I’ve smoked from about ten years old , I expect my life will be shortened by a variety of these and other things but I’m busy living it and making the most of it which I suggest these stressed out anxiety filled youngsters and retired teachers would really benefit from because no matter how you try there is No garuantee, no magic formula, we humans can and do peg it all too often without rhyme or reason to why our time is up🤷🏻‍♂️

I struggling to see your objection here,  of course it's a lifelong impact. That's hardly a source of comfort.  And if something shortens your lifespan, then it has caused your premature death.  We do seem to be going around in circles to some extent now. 

[Archied]

4 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

No, the Internet also works for the dozens of people who live in other countries. 

No to utube or no to nice flight , you don’t make that clear 

[Archied]

1 minute ago, Highgate said:

I struggling to see your objection here,  of course it's a lifelong impact. That's hardly a source of comfort.  And if something shortens your lifespan, then it has caused your premature death.  We do seem to be going around in circles to some extent now. 

I fully understand that you don’t see my point , we have a totally different view on what life is and what it’s about 

[GboroRam]

8 minutes ago, Archied said:

No to utube or no to nice flight , you don’t make that clear 

Much as I love our chats they do sometimes feel like playing chess with a pigeon, so I'll leave you to it again. Enjoy your day. 

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Much as I love our chats they do sometimes feel like playing chess with a pigeon, so I'll leave you to it again. Enjoy your day. 

Thought you might 😂 , nice of you to fly in and give me the old superior intellect routine on the topic of saving the planet though 👍, you do know pigeons can fly under they’re own steam though don’t you 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Archied