Guest Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 I just think we should be looking to develop them both. They are both very good young goalkeepers who are going through the process. Neither is ready for the first team but Evans is further along the journey by nature of his age. Let’s not forget it’s football and things change quickly… 3 years ago Roberts was a goalkeeper with an early scholarship, an early pro deal, playing for the national team and with lots of interest from prem clubs. He’s now out of contract at Derby and I don’t think he has been offered a new one. They are all still very young and need to trust the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 2 hours ago, ExiledinDerby said: Thompson has a pro starting at the day he turns 17 until 2026 he can’t turn pro until his 17th birthday that’s the rules. Evans pro started at the end of his first year scholar and runs until 2025 so both deals are similar. Both were offered to protect the club and Derby rejected an offer for a premier league club for Evans. I know the situation with regards to transfers and Brexit which is why Derby offer scholarships and pros early to those who gain interest. Thompson still needs to develop and is not ready for u21s yet. He’s a good young goalkeeper but has to go through the process. The same as Evans is not ready for first team yet he needs more time in the mens game on loan. Both are good keepers and I’d honestly say that young keepers moving Cat 1 to Cat 1 at these ages are very rare because of values involved. The big boys generally snap up Cat 2 keepers because they are cheaper and plenty of them are good enough. Both Evans and Thompson will be here for a while because of their contracts so both need nurturing and developed in the right way at the right time. I think I'm right in saying that while Jack Thompson has been offered a contract, he can't sign it until he's 17, so until then if he receives an offer elsewhere he is free to consider it. Gordon was in a similar situation and chose to accept Liverpool's offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 It would impact the value slightly but not much, yes Thompson could refuse to sign and at worst in then goes to tribunal to set the fee but even as a scholar Derby can set whatever value they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 6 hours ago, ExiledinDerby said: What do you do with Evans then who has also proven to be a quality goalkeeper as well? Same pathway early scholarship, pro at 17 and regular u21 since 17 as well as a successful loan spell in mens football. He has been outstanding for the u21s this year behind a makeshift defence. There has been at least one bid for him too. Then there is the lad in the u14s who I won’t name due to his age who is also attracting big clubs interest where does he fit? The club is blessed with a production line of high quality goalkeepers at the minute and long may that continue. I think that Thompson has to adjust to being a full time footballer on his scholarship next year (as they all do, it is a massive step schoolboy to scholar) and will play u18s to start with time on u21 bench and PL Cup games at u21. That is the next stage in his development, probably like Evans did he will move into the u21s around Xmas. Evans will go out on loan again next year this time to step 3 or 4 and for the full season. This may have an impact on Thompson and when he goes into u21. I think the lad who is currently u14s going into u15s will play u16s next year for his development. Evans to alternate between 1st team bench and U21 starter, plus games in the cups. Thompson to alternate between U21s and U18s. Review in January, with the intention of loaning Evans out for the 2nd half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jram Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 3 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Evans to alternate between 1st team bench and U21 starter, plus games in the cups. Thompson to alternate between U21s and U18s. Review in January, with the intention of loaning Evans out for the 2nd half of the season. I would definitely save wages and put youth keepers on the bench if I was in charge of a squad. Minimal chance of being needed, good experience, saves paying two more squad players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Jram said: I would definitely save wages and put youth keepers on the bench if I was in charge of a squad. Minimal chance of being needed, good experience, saves paying two more squad players The youth keeper still needs games so you still need to have an experienced backup keeper to rotate on the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 14 hours ago, ExiledinDerby said: It would impact the value slightly but not much, yes Thompson could refuse to sign and at worst in then goes to tribunal to set the fee but even as a scholar Derby can set whatever value they want. Yes, that went well with Malcolm Ebiowei. Have we received anything yet for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 40 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: The youth keeper still needs games so you still need to have an experienced backup keeper to rotate on the bench Agree completely. It’s about the right games too. U21s is still academy football and unfortunately the results still don’t mean much. IMO for goalkeepers being involved in games that mean something, that have a crowd behind the goal giving you grief, knowing what you do means a win bonus or not develops something which u21s can’t. Loans in mens football whatever the level are crucial for a GK development. Goalkeepers have a different process to everyone else and have to develop properly and it takes time that’s why first team starts are so rare until early 20s. I’m not saying it can’t be done but it’s a different game they play from the other 10 players on the pitch. im just pleased we have a conveyor belt of talented lads with the potential to play first team or dare I say it higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Just now, richinspain said: Yes, that went well with Malcolm Ebiowei. Have we received anything yet for him? There is a difference between scholar and pro unfortunately. Schoolboy values are governed by EPPP but once a scholarship is offered the club sets the value. If it goes to tribunal things like games at each level (u21, first team, national team), time at club, length and value of contract offered etc are all considered. For a young pro like Ebiowei it’s similar but I think other criteria come into place. Unfortunately even if the club say he’s worth £10 million the tribunal (which is independent to both clubs) may say actually he’s worth £500k based on the above… Youth transfers are horrendous, EPPP was designed to help the big boys and honestly even in the clubs that have Cat 1 status all is not level as I should be…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said: There is a difference between scholar and pro unfortunately. Schoolboy values are governed by EPPP but once a scholarship is offered the club sets the value. If it goes to tribunal things like games at each level (u21, first team, national team), time at club, length and value of contract offered etc are all considered. For a young pro like Ebiowei it’s similar but I think other criteria come into place. Unfortunately even if the club say he’s worth £10 million the tribunal (which is independent to both clubs) may say actually he’s worth £500k based on the above… Youth transfers are horrendous, EPPP was designed to help the big boys and honestly even in the clubs that have Cat 1 status all is not level as I should be…. Yes, I know that the "independent" tribunal can still screw over the smaller clubs, but have we actually been told yet that Crystal Palace have to pay us a bag of Whatsits for Ebiowei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, richinspain said: Yes, I know that the "independent" tribunal can still screw over the smaller clubs, but have we actually been told yet that Crystal Palace have to pay us a bag of Whatsits for Ebiowei? I don’t think the tribunal has taken place yet. The problem is that he was on a one year deal and had not been developed at Moor Farm. Rightly or wrongly that’s the rules (wrongly in my opinion) but that’s the problem with EPPP, the academy Category system and youth transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewton Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 Can any of them play Right-Back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jram Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 2 hours ago, ExiledinDerby said: I don’t think the tribunal has taken place yet. The problem is that he was on a one year deal and had not been developed at Moor Farm. Rightly or wrongly that’s the rules (wrongly in my opinion) but that’s the problem with EPPP, the academy Category system and youth transfers. I mean… in fairness, couldn’t we have signed him to a longer deal? If you give one year contracts, you’ve only yourselves to blame when you don’t get any sell on value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Jram said: I mean… in fairness, couldn’t we have signed him to a longer deal? If you give one year contracts, you’ve only yourselves to blame when you don’t get any sell on value. Weren't we under a transfer embargo? RoyMac5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 30 minutes ago, richinspain said: Weren't we under a transfer embargo? We can buy free agents or loans currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 “Standard” youth contracts are normally 1 or 2 years with an optional 1 extra. It’s because you really don’t know how they will develop. Ebiowei might have been seen as a bit of a gamble with his history hence the 1 year deal and in other cases lads have had long 3/4 year deals and either not lived up to potential or worse for them got injured long term. Then they become budget blockers for those coming through, it’s a massive juggling act I guess… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 38 minutes ago, B4ev6is said: We can buy free agents or loans currently. Yes, but we were limited to one year contracts in the 21/22 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 38 minutes ago, ExiledinDerby said: “Standard” youth contracts are normally 1 or 2 years with an optional 1 extra. It’s because you really don’t know how they will develop. Ebiowei might have been seen as a bit of a gamble with his history hence the 1 year deal and in other cases lads have had long 3/4 year deals and either not lived up to potential or worse for them got injured long term. Then they become budget blockers for those coming through, it’s a massive juggling act I guess… angieram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jram Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, richinspain said: Weren't we under a transfer embargo? Yeah potentially in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 RoyMac5, Ghost of Clough, Stuniverse and 7 others 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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