Red Roses

[Van der MoodHoover]

I know from some of the reactions to women's football that we're an enlightened bunch on here so how about a shout out for the England womens rugby union team. 

The ladies drubbed the black ferns (new Zealand) at the weekend to retain their World #1 ranking, making light of the absence of some key players who took them to the top. 

Our front row look a set of fearsome biffas mind. Looked like the girls who used to stand in front of me in the chip shop queue..... ?

[BaaLocks]

I say the same about womens rugby as I do about women's football - it's OK to watch if nothing else is on. But the quality is many levels below what I would pay to see and the Beeb keep trying to convince us that sub-standard quality in a national / club jersey is good value (because they can't compete to buy the men's game) is what I find a little off.

When BBC1 and 2 have their Sunday afternoon filled with, without any gender bias at all, low quality sport then I question, not at the people playing but at those in media trying to pretend this is somehow better than it is.

Now, if you have an interest in women's rugby then great, it was a fantastic performance and the Red Roses should be proud but it wasn't a Sunday main channel experience and it wasn't headline news, even if the Beeb thought it was.

[Sufferingfool]

Played some really good Rugby, love the way they just get to the line out and get the ball in quickly. Seemed a much faster paced game than men’s international Rugby and much better for it, I find men’s is too crowded now such is the defensive tactics employed and the fitness and physicality, could do with being 13aside to open it up.

[ilkleyram]

2 hours ago, Sufferingfool said:

Played some really good Rugby, love the way they just get to the line out and get the ball in quickly. Seemed a much faster paced game than men’s international Rugby and much better for it, I find men’s is too crowded now such is the defensive tactics employed and the fitness and physicality, could do with being 13aside to open it up.

It’s called Rugby League. Rather popular in these parts. Very good sport too. Much better than Union nowadays.

[Sufferingfool]

19 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

It’s called Rugby League. Rather popular in these parts. Very good sport too. Much better than Union nowadays.

Agreed!

[Van der MoodHoover]

20 hours ago, ilkleyram said:

It’s called Rugby League. Rather popular in these parts. Very good sport too. Much better than Union nowadays.

Come a long way since it was 13 tubs of lard chugging slowly round the pitch doing something that resembled formation mugging.... ?

[Comrade 86]

Having crushed the New Zealand, the #1 ranked team in the world, last week by 43 - 12, they've followed that up by absolutely destroying the same side 56 - 15 today.

They are a wonderful team to watch who play open and expansive rugby and while it's not always the case, of the two tests already played today, Scotland vs the Wallabies being the other, theirs was by far the more entertaining game. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

8 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Having crushed the New Zealand, the #1 ranked team in the world, last week by 43 - 12, they've followed that up by absolutely destroying the same side 56 - 15 today.

They are a wonderful team to watch who play open and expansive rugby and while it's not always the case, of the two tests already played today, Scotland vs the Wallabies being the other, theirs was by far the more entertaining game. 

First time ever that the black ferns had conceded 50 points in a test. 

Some achievement. The challenge is on to maintain these standards for 12-18 months up to the next WC 

[Comrade 86]

10 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

First time ever that the black ferns had conceded 50 points in a test. 

Some achievement. The challenge is on to maintain these standards for 12-18 months up to the next WC 

Oddly the bookmakers still have the Kiwis as favourites. I've been quietly filling my boots for a while now. To my eyes, the world orrder has shifted and markedly so. France look huge as 12/1 too. NZ host the tournament so I suppose that plays into it but as things stand, the gulf is there for all to see.

In the men's game, with Eddie Jones finally starting to concede that his kick-chase brand of rugby is behind the times and the emergence of a genuine superstar 10 in Marcus Smith, we now seem a scrum half short of challenging for both men and women's titles at the same time. Raffi Quirke was due to play against Tonga but both he and Harry Randall were out injured. Perhaps they are the final missing piece? Really exciting times in any case ?

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, 86 Hair Islands said:

Oddly the bookmakers still have the Kiwis as favourites. I've been quietly filling my boots for a while now. To my eyes, the world orrder has shifted and markedly so. France look huge as 12/1 too. NZ host the tournament so I suppose that plays into it but as things stand, the gulf is there for all to see.

In the men's game, with Eddie Jones finally starting to concede that his kick-chase brand of rugby is behind the times and the emergence of a genuine superstar 10 in Marcus Smith, we now seem a scrum half short of challenging for both men and women's titles at the same time. Raffi Quirke was due to play against Tonga but both he and Harry Randall were out injured. Perhaps they are the final missing piece? Really exciting times in any case ?

I've been writing Ben Youngs' career obituary since the WC before last and he's STILL there. 

A brilliant fly half would be, well, brilliant. I last had such hopes in the days of a young Johnny Wilkinson before he got coached into a kicking automaton.... 

Here's hoping Eddie gets some good coaches with modern ideas around him. ?

[Comrade 86]

25 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

I've been writing Ben Youngs' career obituary since the WC before last and he's STILL there. 

A brilliant fly half would be, well, brilliant. I last had such hopes in the days of a young Johnny Wilkinson before he got coached into a kicking automaton.... 

Here's hoping Eddie gets some good coaches with modern ideas around him. ?

It's odd isn't it as the brand of rugby he employed when he coached Japan was so easy on the eye. I was in Johannesburg when they beat the Boks and still regard that as one of the greatest ever coaching achievements, not to mention an absolutely stellar game of rugby too. All my Saffa mates were literally in mourning after that!

On that note, given I know you're a big rugby fan, check out the movie below. It's a belter ?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10901588/

[Van der MoodHoover]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

It's odd isn't it as the brand of rugby he employed when he coached Japan was so easy on the eye. I was in Johannesburg when they beat the Boks and still regard that as one of the greatest ever coaching achievements, not to mention an absolutely stellar game of rugby too. All my Saffa mates were literally in mourning after that!

On that note, given I know you're a big rugby fan, check out the movie below. It's a belter ?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10901588/

I'll look forward to seeing that, thanks mate. 

I couldn't believe that I had to work in Mrs VdMs ice cream shop that day to cover for an 18 year old bimbo whose boyfriend had got them tickets to that game..... 

Jealous much? Too ducking right I was..... Spoke to her after and she literally had not got clue 1 about the game or occasion....... ??

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Oddly the bookmakers still have the Kiwis as favourites. I've been quietly filling my boots for a while now. To my eyes, the world orrder has shifted and markedly so. France look huge as 12/1 too. NZ host the tournament so I suppose that plays into it but as things stand, the gulf is there for all to see.

In the men's game, with Eddie Jones finally starting to concede that his kick-chase brand of rugby is behind the times and the emergence of a genuine superstar 10 in Marcus Smith, we now seem a scrum half short of challenging for both men and women's titles at the same time. Raffi Quirke was due to play against Tonga but both he and Harry Randall were out injured. Perhaps they are the final missing piece? Really exciting times in any case ?

The Red Roses certainly are an awesome team (I really don’t get this criticism of women’s sport at this level) but, as well as having home advantage, you have to remember these two games are the first time the Black Ferns have played together for 12 months (I think). I’m sure they’ll build momentum and continue to improve between now and the World Cup.

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, Tamworthram said:

The Red Roses certainly are an awesome team (I really don’t get this criticism of women’s sport at this level) but, as well as having home advantage, you have to remember these two games are the first time the Black Ferns have played together for 12 months (I think). I’m sure they’ll build momentum and continue to improve between now and the World Cup.

True but they have continued with provincial rugby and in New Zealand that's pretty much of Test Match standard. You could also argue that the are a much fresher side as a consequence too and that's no small thing either. That allied to the fact that they have had ample time together as a unit and I'm not sure that explains away the gulf in relative performance.  

I watched both matches and in the first game, the Kiwis still looked threatening and the score line perhaps didn't totally reflect their performance level, but today, with that game under their belt, they were seen off in every department. It wasn't just attacking prowess shown by our girls. They were absolutely dominant in defence conceding only one try it when it was 15 vs 15. They were absolutely smashing the Kiwis at the gain line to the point I was wincing at times!

No doubt the Black Fens will be a different proposition on in Auckland but they're going to need to be. Today's performance was as good a team effort as I've ever seen in women's sport and I don't say that lightly. They Roses now carry that aura of near invincibility that we've so long associated with Kiwi rugby teams and that's not to be dismissed either. They are also still improving with every outing and that's a scary prospect for anyone playing them, irrespective of location. I think it'll be a cracking tournament in any instance and as I've said, my money's already down ? Whatever happens, I think we should be very proud of the progress they've made. 

[Tamworthram]

9 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

True but they have continued with provincial rugby and in New Zealand that's pretty much of Test Match standard. You could also argue that the are a much fresher side as a consequence too and that's no small thing either. That allied to the fact that they have had ample time together as a unit and I'm not sure that explains away the gulf in relative performance.  

I watched both matches and in the first game, the Kiwis still looked threatening and the score line perhaps didn't totally reflect their performance level, but today, with that game under their belt, they were seen off in every department. It wasn't just attacking prowess shown by our girls. They were absolutely dominant in defence conceding only one try it when it was 15 vs 15. They were absolutely smashing the Kiwis at the gain line to the point I was wincing at times!

No doubt the Black Fens will be a different proposition on in Auckland but they're going to need to be. Today's performance was as good a team effort as I've ever seen in women's sport and I don't say that lightly. They Roses now carry that aura of near invincibility that we've so long associated with Kiwi rugby teams and that's not to be dismissed either. They are also still improving with every outing and that's a scary prospect for anyone playing them, irrespective of location. I think it'll be a cracking tournament in any instance and as I've said, my money's already down ? Whatever happens, I think we should be very proud of the progress they've made. 

I must confess, I don’t know much about the structure of New Zealand rugby. When they play provincial rugby, do the same group play together as a team or do they play for different teams but at a very high level? If it’s the latter then it would be akin to English footballers playing in the premier league but not coming together as a single team for 12 months.

Being fresher can of course be a double edged sword. I think most people in professional sport would argue that there is no substitute to playing fully competitive games. Same applies to coming together as a unit - they still need to play together in order to gel together, develop their game and iron out mistakes.

Anyway, if the Red Roses can maintain the level of performance seen in these two games then they’ll certainly be a force to be reckoned with and potentially favourites. I just think, by the time the World Cup comes around, we’ll see a different New Zealand performance to that we’ve seen over the last two weeks.

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, Tamworthram said:

I must confess, I don’t know much about the structure of New Zealand rugby. When they play provincial rugby, do the same group play together as a team or do they play for different teams but at a very high level? If it’s the latter then it would be akin to English footballers playing in the premier league but not coming together as a single team for 12 months.

Being fresher can of course be a double edged sword. I think most people in professional sport would argue that there is no substitute to playing fully competitive games. Same applies to coming together as a unit - they still need to play together in order to gel together, develop their game and iron out mistakes.

Anyway, if the Red Roses can maintain the level of performance seen in these two games then they’ll certainly be a force to be reckoned with and potentially favourites. I just think, by the time the World Cup comes around, we’ll see a different New Zealand performance to that we’ve seen over the last two weeks.

Provincial is a bit of a euphemism in this case - they so few sides so much like Australian domestic cricket, the standard and intensity is pretty much on a par with run of the mill Test Matches. Irrespective, it'll be a great tournament and hopefully boost the profile of the women's game.

[Sufferingfool]

On 07/11/2021 at 22:06, 86 Hair Islands said:

True but they have continued with provincial rugby and in New Zealand that's pretty much of Test Match standard. You could also argue that the are a much fresher side as a consequence too and that's no small thing either. That allied to the fact that they have had ample time together as a unit and I'm not sure that explains away the gulf in relative performance.  

I watched both matches and in the first game, the Kiwis still looked threatening and the score line perhaps didn't totally reflect their performance level, but today, with that game under their belt, they were seen off in every department. It wasn't just attacking prowess shown by our girls. They were absolutely dominant in defence conceding only one try it when it was 15 vs 15. They were absolutely smashing the Kiwis at the gain line to the point I was wincing at times!

No doubt the Black Fens will be a different proposition on in Auckland but they're going to need to be. Today's performance was as good a team effort as I've ever seen in women's sport and I don't say that lightly. They Roses now carry that aura of near invincibility that we've so long associated with Kiwi rugby teams and that's not to be dismissed either. They are also still improving with every outing and that's a scary prospect for anyone playing them, irrespective of location. I think it'll be a cracking tournament in any instance and as I've said, my money's already down ? Whatever happens, I think we should be very proud of the progress they've made. 

Agree completely I thought both games were exceptional with England playing Rugby of a very high standard. 

[Comrade 86]

So having humbled the #1 team in the world on consecutive weekends, the mighty Red Roses have today put 50 on the Canadians, currently ranked 3 in the world. They are now unbeaten in 17 test matches. You can't crab that. They're a very special team.

[Reggie Greenwood]

On 01/11/2021 at 21:46, BaaLocks said:

I say the same about womens rugby as I do about women's football - it's OK to watch if nothing else is on. But the quality is many levels below what I would pay to see and the Beeb keep trying to convince us that sub-standard quality in a national / club jersey is good value (because they can't compete to buy the men's game) is what I find a little off.

When BBC1 and 2 have their Sunday afternoon filled with, without any gender bias at all, low quality sport then I question, not at the people playing but at those in media trying to pretend this is somehow better than it is.

Now, if you have an interest in women's rugby then great, it was a fantastic performance and the Red Roses should be proud but it wasn't a Sunday main channel experience and it wasn't headline news, even if the Beeb thought it was.

I’d rather the beeb spend money in this or some other home grown sport than spend money on the NFL , a rich foreign sport. That should be left to the commercial channels . 

[Van der MoodHoover]

Another great performance by the Roses. 

They seem to have combined ferocious 15 a side forward play with some really dynamic 7s style attack, with elegant running and sublime offloads. 

Great stuff.