Is this our worst ever side ?

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, LeedsCityRam said:

No point debating about the manager with you Roy.

You've openly said you relish Rooney's celebrity status which is probably the very last quality I would look for in a manager.

The point was about worst side, not Rooney. No manager can make a bad squad good without transfers in and out! Lots of good managers get relegated, are they all bad? Or do circumstances sometimes conspire too?

Yes I relish Rooney's celebrity status, as I did Lampards and Cocu's.

You are the one obsessing over blaming Rooney for all of this,  but this clubs foundations are built on sand.

[LeedsCityRam]

4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The point was about worst side, not Rooney. No manager can make a bad squad good without transfers in and out! Lots of good managers get relegated, are they all bad? Or do circumstances sometimes conspire too?

Yes I relish Rooney's celebrity status, as I did Lampards and Cocu's.

You are the one obsessing over blaming Rooney for all of this,  but this clubs foundations are built on sand.

Yes, of course & it would be ridiculously simplistic to say 'all our problems are because of Wayne Rooney'. Circumstances elsewhere will affect expectations. So the question is do we believe Rooney is getting the maximum from the players he has?

To repeat a squad very similar to this one finished 10th last year but is now the 3rd worst side in the division (as Wendies have a points deduction) & may well be the 2nd worst side by 10pm on Tuesday night. 

I harked back to 02-04 & 05/06 in my first post. George Burley & Terry Westley got those very limited squads a) fighting & b) playing decent stuff even if we were appallingly naive & weak in certain areas. We were also skint on both occasions & Westley's squad in fact only had one recognised striker (Peschisolido). Compare & contrast with the spineless displays we're seeing from Wayne Rooney's Derby County

Edited May 2, 2021 by LeedsCityRam

[DCFC Kicks]

13 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

The point was about worst side, not Rooney. No manager can make a bad squad good without transfers in and out! Lots of good managers get relegated, are they all bad? Or do circumstances sometimes conspire too?

4 of our players were involved in a play-off final only 2 years ago.

Clarke who wouldn't look out of place in the Premier League

Jozwiak who's deemed good enough to get in a competitive Poland side

Knight and Sibley who not long ago were linked with Premier League clubs.

Some of the best training facilities in the league

already some of our players are being linked to top half Championship teams, why would they buy our players if they're as bad as you say?

There's a chance we could end up bottom of the league, are you seriously saying this squad is the worst in the whole league?

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

To repeat a squad very similar to this one finished 10th last year but is now the 3rd worst side in the division (as Wendies have a points deduction) & may well be the 2nd worst side by 10pm on Tuesday night. 

But not similar in the most important areas ie attack and defence. And although it was a 10th place the last (how many?) 7 games of the season were awful and continued into this season. As Paul Jewell found it can be very difficult to halt a slide and change players mentalities.

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, DCFClks said:

4 of our players were involved in a play-off final only 2 years ago.

Which we lost.

Which four and what about the rest? ?

[Chris_Martin]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Which we lost.

but they did get to the play off final in the first place?

[RoyMac5]

Just now, Chris_Martin said:

but they did get to the play off final in the first place?

And this squad is where now?

[DCFC Kicks]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Which we lost.

Which four and what about the rest? ?

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, DCFClks said:

Lol. It's not the same squad is it? 

[DCFC Kicks]

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Lol. It's not the same squad is it? 

Firstly, thanks for just completely ignoring the other 6-7 points I made.

Secondly, I didn't say it was the same squad but 3 players playing in a play-off final only 2 seasons ago is still relevant when added to the other points I made

Thirdly, What does the fact they lost the pay-off final have to do with anything? I'm pretty sure losing a play-off final is better than finishing bottom of the league

Edited May 2, 2021 by DCFClks

[LeedsCityRam]

14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

But not similar in the most important areas ie attack and defence. And although it was a 10th place the last (how many?) 7 games of the season were awful and continued into this season. As Paul Jewell found it can be very difficult to halt a slide and change players 

Other than Bogle & Martin, who else is missing from both ends of the field? Marriott was bit part at best

Those last few games were all against the best teams in the division...Cardiff, WBA, Leeds, Brentford etc. We still checked out with a good 3-1 away win at Birmingham

To call it a slide is pretty harsh...we simply weren't good enough as a team to compete with top 6 teams week in week out & by that point we were also carrying a portly midfielder who had returned from lockdown in very poor shape. Still ended that lockdown period with a record of P9 W4 D1 L4...aka midtable form

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Other than Bogle & Martin, who else is missing from both ends of the field? Marriott was bit part at best

Those last few games were all against the best teams in the division...Cardiff, WBA, Leeds, Brentford etc. We still checked out with a good 3-1 away win at Birmingham

To call it a slide is pretty harsh...we simply weren't good enough as a team to compete with top 6 teams week in week out & by that point we were also carrying a portly midfielder who had returned from lockdown in very poor shape. Still ended that lockdown period with a record of P9 W4 D1 L4...aka midtable form

Keogh, Davies? Lawrence for a large chunk of the time. We went from 10th to bottom, how is that not a slide?

[Jimbo Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

The point was about worst side, not Rooney. No manager can make a bad squad good without transfers in and out! Lots of good managers get relegated, are they all bad? Or do circumstances sometimes conspire too?

Yes I relish Rooney's celebrity status, as I did Lampards and Cocu's.

You are the one obsessing over blaming Rooney for all of this,  but this clubs foundations are built on sand.

But the two things are linked Roy Mac 5, mediocre players who a rookie manager can’t motivate and get the most possible out of them...

[AndyinLiverpool]

10 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Other than Bogle & Martin, who else is missing from both ends of the field? Marriott was bit part at best

Those last few games were all against the best teams in the division...Cardiff, WBA, Leeds, Brentford etc. We still checked out with a good 3-1 away win at Birmingham

To call it a slide is pretty harsh...we simply weren't good enough as a team to compete with top 6 teams week in week out & by that point we were also carrying a portly midfielder who had returned from lockdown in very poor shape. Still ended that lockdown period with a record of P9 W4 D1 L4...aka midtable form

I will also add, apropos of not much, that Rooney has known from the beginning what he has to work with. Nobody was sold who he wanted to keep and he was able to add to it.

Cocu had both first choice fullbacks taken off him on the eve of the new season, having worked with them up to that point with the assumption that they'd be available.

[LeedsCityRam]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Keogh, Davies? Lawrence for a large chunk of the time. We went from 10th to bottom, how is that not a slide?

Keogh left the previous October, he made very little impact on last season. Davies was very bit part & only used by Cocu as a late sub (unlike earlier this season when he was starting)

Re the slide, the side were carrying Rooney by this point & from the sounds of his first press conference, he was openly questioning Cocu's tactics. With his profile, that must have been v difficult to deal with & not conducive to a successful side.

Funny you mention Lawrence's injuries as he was also injured for start of the season & hence unavailable to Cocu for first few games. So was Waghorn. So was Bielik. And Kazim wasnt fit. 

There's context there if you choose to accept it.

[Ramarena]

14 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

I will also add, apropos of not much, that Rooney has known from the beginning what he has to work with. Nobody was sold who he wanted to keep and he was able to add to it.

Cocu had both first choice fullbacks taken off him on the eve of the new season, having worked with them up to that point with the assumption that they'd be available.

He also wanted Dursun and we didn’t get him and he had to scramble around for CKR, who’s done well but wasn’t on our transfer shortlist other than as a back up 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Ramarena

[RoyMac5]

31 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Keogh left the previous October, he made very little impact on last season. Davies was very bit part & only used by Cocu as a late sub (unlike earlier this season when he was starting)

Re the slide, the side were carrying Rooney by this point & from the sounds of his first press conference, he was openly questioning Cocu's tactics. With his profile, that must have been v difficult to deal with & not conducive to a successful side.

Funny you mention Lawrence's injuries as he was also injured for start of the season & hence unavailable to Cocu for first few games. So was Waghorn. So was Bielik. And Kazim wasnt fit. 

There's context there if you choose to accept it.

So why didn't Cocu strengthen the squad after the end of season slide - he took us to the bottom of the league instead. Love how it's Rooney's fault Cocu kept picking him. Or that he would have led the squads incomprehension at Cocu's training & tactics.

We got lucky with Colin, he asked to train with us. I suppose there were no other options for Cocu? No loans?

The squad is very poor and if you chose to blame Rooney for that so be it. But Cocu did little with it either.

Edited May 2, 2021 by RoyMac5

[Brammie Steve]

I don't know about this being our worst side ever but it is certainly the group of players (I hesitate to use the word 'team') with the worst attitude.

I have never known Rams' side display such a 'couldn't care less' approach!

In 2008 the supporters won the Player of the Year award.

In 2021 we have not even been able to try and engender a little Pride (no pun intended) into the Black and White at 'home' or panache into the pretty pink away games.

It is hard to find any player who deserves the accolade of 'never stops trying from first to final whistle.

Even a scoreline of Rams 7-0 Wendy will do little to brighten this miserable season.

A low point indeed.

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

And this squad is where now?

You were criticising the four players for losing a play off final, i don't see how that's relevant to this season.

[Chris_Martin]

2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

 No manager can make a bad squad good without transfers in and out!

 

they can actually.