Chris_Martin Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 6 hours ago, Jourdan said: The deficit only grew because we basically fumbled our way through the next two games under the management committee and then also failed to put Wycombe and Coventry away once Rooney took sole charge. There is no denying that we had a terrible start to the season under Cocu, but Rooney and the coaching staff have absolutely contributed to our current position. When you consider his first two games in charge were division newcomers Wycombe and Coventry at home, he couldn’t have asked for two better games to get his reign kickstarted. Were you really expecting us to beat Coventry and Wycombe after Cocu's management had completely drained all our teams confidence? Not to mention around 18 months of him gradually killing all our attacking instincts. I think Rooney did well not to lose them games to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said: Were you really expecting us to beat Coventry and Wycombe after Cocu's management had completely drained all our teams confidence? Not to mention around 18 months of him gradually killing all our attacking instincts. I think Rooney did well not to lose them games to be honest. You seriously think we did well to avoid defeat at home to Wycombe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 8 minutes ago, AGR said: You seriously think we did well to avoid defeat at home to Wycombe? We may need that point at the end of the season. Brum and Wendies to beat to stay up as it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Chris_Martin said: Were you really expecting us to beat Coventry and Wycombe after Cocu's management had completely drained all our teams confidence? Not to mention around 18 months of him gradually killing all our attacking instincts. I think Rooney did well not to lose them games to be honest. Absolutely. You are kidding yourself if you think Rooney, the players and the fans were not expecting us to win those games or didn’t sense the importance of those games. If you are not expecting to beat the two of the poorest teams in the division with two of the poorest away records in the division, then you may as well pack up and go fishing. Wycombe and Coventry had lost a combined 10 out of 13 away games at that point, so please spare me with the narrative that not losing those games was an achievement of Rooney’s. No-one came away from either of those games thinking it was a point gained. We were absolutely going into those games expecting to win and kick start our season. The fact that we didn’t was very much owing to Rooney’s tactics and game management. Rooney set us up to stay in games and not to lose, more so than with genuine intent to win. It had nothing to do with Cocu’s effect on confidence levels or attacking instincts, but everything to do with Rooney’s pragmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 14 hours ago, Abu Derby said: We should have dispensed with Phil’s services four or five weeks sooner. It was patently obvious what was going to happen when the awful form (also including the calamitous collapse towards the end of last season) was taken into account. We’d have saved our season if action had been taken sooner. Rooney's initial positive impact on the team when he arrived was actually a negative for the club in the long run as it masked how terrible they really were. I could tell after the Barrow performance there was no hope until he was sacked. If they'd had waited another few weeks before sacking him than they did, it would probably have guaranteed relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Damn you, I'd forgotten all about that game...wow truely awfull watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 If Rotherham beat Cardiff tomorrow then they will have four points on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Funny how all this talk on here about winning/losing is Cocu v Rooney and no-one is talking about the people who are solely responsible for the outcome of games - the players. It's no good blaming either manager if the players available aren't good enough to achieve game by game results, regardless of the opposition. To my mind, Cocu would have taken us down, and Rooney is doing a better job with the same tools at his disposal. Problem is, the tools aren't any better than a lower midtable team. We have hardly any creativity or goals in us, but at least we've shored things up at the back. We can only hope the loan players add something going forward, or we remain in great danger of going down. If we do finish 21st or above, it'll be a job well done in the circumstances but unfortunately a sign of things to come unless we can find someone to buy the club and invest in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 25 minutes ago, Rampage said: If Rotherham beat Cardiff tomorrow then they will have four points on us. I don't think that in itself makes them safe. This table can move greatly in a couple of games as we have just seen. I would prefer to be 4 points in front though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, VulcanRam said: Funny how all this talk on here about winning/losing is Cocu v Rooney and no-one is talking about the people who are solely responsible for the outcome of games - the players. It's no good blaming either manager if the players available aren't good enough to achieve game by game results, regardless of the opposition. To my mind, Cocu would have taken us down, and Rooney is doing a better job with the same tools at his disposal. Problem is, the tools aren't any better than a lower midtable team. We have hardly any creativity or goals in us, but at least we've shored things up at the back. We can only hope the loan players add something going forward, or we remain in great danger of going down. If we do finish 21st or above, it'll be a job well done in the circumstances but unfortunately a sign of things to come unless we can find someone to buy the club and invest in the team. there's a sense that this is just a kick the can down the road situation until someone injects capital or we get relegated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, AGR said: You seriously think we did well to avoid defeat at home to Wycombe? Well yeah. Changed manager, and a new manager that had never done the job before. Plus the team was at an all time low after Cocu destroyed their confidence, killed their attacking instincts, and bored them to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, Spanish said: I don't think that in itself makes them safe. This table can move greatly in a couple of games as we have just seen. I would prefer to be 4 points in front though It wouldn't be a surprise for survival to be decided by which teams at the bottom don't get 12 point deductions for going into administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Jourdan said: It had nothing to do with Cocu’s effect on confidence levels or attacking instincts, but everything to do with Rooney’s pragmatism. I'm sorry but no, not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, DCFClks said: Rooney's initial positive impact on the team when he arrived was actually a negative for the club in the long run as it masked how terrible they really were. I could tell after the Barrow performance there was no hope until he was sacked. If they'd had waited another few weeks before sacking him than they did, it would probably have guaranteed relegation. And also, if Mel had got rid of him a few weeks earlier we probably would have beat Coventry & Wycombe and therefore be sitting mid table now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC Kicks Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Jourdan said: Absolutely. You are kidding yourself if you think Rooney, the players and the fans were not expecting us to win those games or didn’t sense the importance of those games. If you are not expecting to beat the two of the poorest teams in the division with two of the poorest away records in the division, then you may as well pack up and go fishing. We were absolutely going into those games expecting to win and kick start our season. The fact that we didn’t was very much owing to Rooney’s tactics and game management. Rooney set us up to stay in games and not to lose, more so than with genuine intent to win. It had nothing to do with Cocu’s effect on confidence levels or attacking instincts, but everything to do with Rooney’s pragmatism. But THE poorest team in the division at the time was Derby. You can say Rooney's pragmatism cost us wins but do you honestly think if Cocu was in charge against Coventry and Wycombe we would have won? having previously been out played by the likes of Barrow earlier in the season. It's unfortunate that 2 such winnable games came just as we changed managers. But I would say Rooney's tactics seem to be less affective against teams lower in the table, who like to sit back and defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Martin Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Jourdan said: We were absolutely going into those games expecting to win and kick start our season. The fact that we didn’t was very much owing to Rooney’s tactics and game management. Rooney set us up to stay in games and not to lose, more so than with genuine intent to win. That was exactly what was needed at the time. We had to stop the rot. Once we had got a couple of points and started to rebuild the confidence, Rooney switched to 4-3-3 more attacking and started getting more players forward to win games. After Coventry & Wycombe, we beat Millwall, got a good point away at top of the table Brentford, Comfortably beat Swansea 2-0 which could have been 4 or 5-0. Also beat Birmingham 4-0 after that and were genuinely unlucky to lose to Preston playing nearly the whole game with 10 men. I just don't know how you can criticise the guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 If its been said one its been said a thousand times. The Championship is not like the Premier League. Any team is capable of beating anyone else on any given day. "We should be beating teams below us" is a fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 58 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said: That was exactly what was needed at the time. We had to stop the rot. Once we had got a couple of points and started to rebuild the confidence, Rooney switched to 4-3-3 more attacking and started getting more players forward to win games. After Coventry & Wycombe, we beat Millwall, got a good point away at top of the table Brentford, Comfortably beat Swansea 2-0 which could have been 4 or 5-0. Also beat Birmingham 4-0 after that and were genuinely unlucky to lose to Preston playing nearly the whole game with 10 men. I just don't know how you can criticise the guy! That’s revisionist in the extreme and very easy to say with hindsight. Very few people, if any, were praising Rooney at the time and saying ‘this is exactly what is needed’, especially not after those Wycombe and Coventry games. Perhaps @RoyMac5 but he seemed to be a lone voice. At the time, many people were criticising Rooney for team selections, tactics, game management and use of substitutions. Opinions only seriously began to change when we got that draw against the odds v Brentford. You were one of them, as I recall. In fact around the time of the Wycombe and Coventry games, you seemed so resigned to relegation under Rooney that you wanted Sam Allardyce to get the job instead. If you only get 22 points from a possible 42 and fail to beat a significant number of your relegation rivals, you are always going to leave yourself open to criticism. At least I am consistent in my position, not flip flopping from one result to the next. How can I criticise Rooney? Well I just don’t see how you can criticise Cocu at this point. He is long gone. He is ancient history. We have had 16 games to get our house in order and we still haven’t yet managed it despite a very favourable run of fixtures that offered hope and a plausible way out of trouble - the very reason Rooney took the job in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jourdan said: How can I criticise Rooney? Well I just don’t see how you can criticise Cocu at this point. He is long gone. He is ancient history. We have had 16 games to get our house in order and we still haven’t yet managed it despite a very favourable run of fixtures that offered hope and a plausible way out of trouble - the very reason Rooney took the job in the first place. Well Rooney got off to an understandably slow start. But Cocu got a good amount of leeway in his first season owing to the 'Lampard effect'! He also got more leeway at the start of this season. He's not long gone at all. Post Jan transfer window is perhaps the first time Cocu might be almost gone over the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab a dab doo Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Has Rooney ever had a totally fully fit squad to actually choose a match day team from . ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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