Archied Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 5 hours ago, Stive Pesley said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60140726 So it's not the fault of the vaccine - we should have better screening. If you know you have this problem then you should absolutely not be taking the Covid vaccine. If you don't know you have the issue and you take the vaccine, well you're just going to end up an anti-vaxxer posterboy ? So should all people under a certain age be screened before taking the vaccine? on you last point you do realise that the number of REAL anti vaxxers is tiny and most people would be very happy if there was open debate , research and information which helped to make the vaccines as safe as they can be , there really is a difference between anti vaxxers and people with concerns about the new covid vaccines and they’re frequency of needing to be taken ??♂️ YouRams and Andrew3000 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 38 minutes ago, Archied said: on you last point you do realise that the number of REAL anti vaxxers is tiny and most people would be very happy if there was open debate , research and information which helped to make the vaccines as safe as they can be , there really is a difference between anti vaxxers and people with concerns about the new covid vaccines and they’re frequency of needing to be taken Yes - i absolutely realise that. That's why it's frustrating to see people on here promoting stupid twitter accounts like theysayitsrare (or whatever it's called) that push an anti-vax agenda with zero research Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 36 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Yes - i absolutely realise that. That's why it's frustrating to see people on here promoting stupid twitter accounts like theysayitsrare (or whatever it's called) that push an anti-vax agenda with zero research It's a drip-feed of anti-science garbage. Telling enough people enough times that the moon is made of green cheese by using the argument "It's been demonstrated that it's not made of blue cheese" is all it requires to make some converts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 19 hours ago, Eddie said: It's a drip-feed of anti-science garbage. Telling enough people enough times that the moon is made of green cheese by using the argument "It's been demonstrated that it's not made of blue cheese" is all it requires to make some converts. We are seeing anti science garbage from all sides though ??♂️, vaccine passports being pushed ( less so in this country now thankfully) is total anti science , the best and only way to get truth and the best agreement is to shine a light and that means NO censorship, I had two jabs and stopped at that , I don’t regret that choice but also don’t seek to impose it on others or tell them it’s best for them , who decides what and who are anti vax ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Archied said: We are seeing anti science garbage from all sides though ??♂️, vaccine passports being pushed ( less so in this country now thankfully) is total anti science , the best and only way to get truth and the best agreement is to shine a light and that means NO censorship, I had two jabs and stopped at that , I don’t regret that choice but also don’t seek to impose it on others or tell them it’s best for them , who decides what and who are anti vax ? Exactly. What @Eddiecalled 'pants on head silly' turns out medical professionals are investigating further. Does that make him anti-science I wonder? Eddie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Exactly. What @Eddiecalled 'pants on head silly' turns out medical professionals are investigating further. Does that make him anti-science I wonder? I said "One person's 'controversial' is another person's 'pants on head stupid'." There is a difference. For instance, I would never suggest that you were stupid - far from it. You are, in all likelihood, very intelligent - this comes across in many of your posts. However, using a false dichotomy because you think it makes you look clever is silly. G STAR RAM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 13 minutes ago, Eddie said: I said "One person's 'controversial' is another person's 'pants on head stupid'." There is a difference. For instance, I would never suggest that you were stupid - far from it. You are, in all likelihood, very intelligent - this comes across in many of your posts. However, using a false dichotomy because you think it makes you look clever is silly. Agree with all of that...apart from me being intelligent...does prove how easy it is to mislead you though ? Eddie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Another 2 medical emergencies involving players reported on Sky Sports today, imagine its them anti vaxxers again! Comrade 86 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Eddie said: I said "One person's 'controversial' is another person's 'pants on head stupid'." There is a difference. For instance, I would never suggest that you were stupid - far from it. You are, in all likelihood, very intelligent - this comes across in many of your posts. However, using a false dichotomy because you think it makes you look clever is silly. Here’s the thing , I agree with you on REAL anti vaxxers being anti science , problem is you would never accept that mass vaccinating people that don’t need it and forcing it through mandates when it very clear that the vaccine does not stop catching and spreading it is also anti science and just feeds the anti science of anti vaxxers , being pro science is not about picking a side and sticking to it no matter what without question ??♂️ science is a wonderful thing and is our species strength but our biggest weakness is arrogance around our science ,oh and also greed Edited February 5, 2022 by Archied Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Another 2 medical emergencies involving players reported on Sky Sports today, imagine its them anti vaxxers again! Complications from Covid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said: Complications from Covid? Could be ,, perhaps we would have more chance of knowing which if we hadn’t had a mass scattergun approach to vaccinating those not at risk from covid , chances are most likely that people surfacing with these problems have had both covid and vaccines ??♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Archied said: Here’s the thing , I agree with you on REAL anti vaxxers being anti science , problem is you would never accept that mass vaccinating people that don’t need it and forcing it through mandates when it very clear that the vaccine does not stop catching and spreading it is also anti science and just feeds the anti science of anti vaxxers , being pro science is not about picking a side and sticking to it no matter what without question ??♂️ science is a wonderful thing and is our species strength but our biggest weakness is arrogance around our science ,oh and also greed Where I draw the line is people reading something (e.g. 'xyz has an anti-viral effect') and extrapolating that to be read as a cure, or even a treatment. For example, hydroxychloroquine was shown to have a strong anti-viral effect in the laboratory. In other words, if you had a petri dish containing a viral infection (in this case, cells infected with Covid-19) and then you doused it with a hydroxychloroquine solution, it was seen to retard or kill off the viral infection. This is where people got the idea for injecting fish tank cleaner - unfortunately, what can kill an infection in a petri dish (e.g. bleach, 75% alcohol solution, strong ultra-violet radiation or even plain old soap and water) does not always work within the human body. For a start, you need to be able to deliver the toxin (it effectively is that to the virus) in a method that gets it to the target area in a convenient form as quickly as possible, and do it in such a way that a) Other cells or areas are not adversely affected and b) without triggering the body's own defences to target and destroy the 'cure'. Vaccines trigger the body's natural defences to target and destroy the virus by appearing as though the vaccine itself is the virus (but in a more benign form). The body fights the vaccine, basically, calling upon more and more reinforcements to do so, which is why many people feel a bit 'crook' for a day or two. Feeling ill is actually a side-effect of the body's natural defences at work. Your temperature elevates, areas swell, you get aches and you feel crap. Then you normally get better. But the body remembers what it was it was fighting and how it fought it - at least, for a while. Actually, I'm prepared to give the 75% alcohol solution remedy a clinical trial myself. What you might describe as a double-blind drunk trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Eddie said: Where I draw the line is people reading something (e.g. 'xyz has an anti-viral effect') and extrapolating that to be read as a cure, or even a treatment. For example, hydroxychloroquine was shown to have a strong anti-viral effect in the laboratory. In other words, if you had a petri dish containing a viral infection (in this case, cells infected with Covid-19) and then you doused it with a hydroxychloroquine solution, it was seen to retard or kill off the viral infection. This is where people got the idea for injecting fish tank cleaner - unfortunately, what can kill an infection in a petri dish (e.g. bleach, 75% alcohol solution, strong ultra-violet radiation or even plain old soap and water) does not always work within the human body. For a start, you need to be able to deliver the toxin (it effectively is that to the virus) in a method that gets it to the target area in a convenient form as quickly as possible, and do it in such a way that a) Other cells or areas are not adversely affected and b) without triggering the body's own defences to target and destroy the 'cure'. Vaccines trigger the body's natural defences to target and destroy the virus by appearing as though the vaccine itself is the virus (but in a more benign form). The body fights the vaccine, basically, calling upon more and more reinforcements to do so, which is why many people feel a bit 'crook' for a day or two. Feeling ill is actually a side-effect of the body's natural defences at work. Your temperature elevates, areas swell, you get aches and you feel crap. Then you normally get better. But the body remembers what it was it was fighting and how it fought it - at least, for a while. Actually, I'm prepared to give the 75% alcohol solution remedy a clinical trial myself. What you might describe as a double-blind drunk trial. Fire is a great antiviral. Eddie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Take away the mandatory vaccinations and the whole argument goes away. It would kill off the conspiracy theorists claims overnight. Norman and Carl Sagan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 4 hours ago, Archied said: Could be ,, perhaps we would have more chance of knowing which if we hadn’t had a mass scattergun approach to vaccinating those not at risk from covid , chances are most likely that people surfacing with these problems have had both covid and vaccines ??♂️ Everyone is at risk from Covid. I personally knew somebody with no previous health conditions who died of Covid in their early thirties. You can say minimal risk for some. But don’t say not at risk or not risk as that isn’t correct. ariotofmyown 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 6 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: Everyone is at risk from Covid. I personally knew somebody with no previous health conditions who died of Covid in their early thirties. You can say minimal risk for some. But don’t say not at risk or not risk as that isn’t correct. Ok , groups at a tiny tiny minuscule risk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: Everyone is at risk from Covid. I personally knew somebody with no previous health conditions who died of Covid in their early thirties. You can say minimal risk for some. But don’t say not at risk or not risk as that isn’t correct. By the same token, everyone is at risk from the vaccine. So the use of the term anti vaxxer becomes very dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 On 06/02/2022 at 07:57, G STAR RAM said: By the same token, everyone is at risk from the vaccine. So the use of the term anti vaxxer becomes very dangerous. But the overall risk of the vaccine is far, far lower than the overall risk of Covid-19, and that goes for all age ranges, and this is the message that the anti-vaxxer doesn't receive - instead, the truth is subdued and the opposite is promoted. Anyway, this is an interesting article suggesting that nationalism and science aren't the most comfortable bedfellows... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60259302 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 8 hours ago, Eddie said: But the overall risk of the vaccine is far, far lower than the overall risk of Covid-19, and that goes for all age ranges, and this is the message that the anti-vaxxer doesn't receive - instead, the truth is subdued and the opposite is promoted. Anyway, this is an interesting article suggesting that nationalism and science aren't the most comfortable bedfellows... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60259302 What’s the risk of death from covid to people ranging from 16 to 35 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 50 minutes ago, Archied said: What’s the risk of death from covid to people ranging from 16 to 35 ? Vaccinated or unvaccinated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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