Starship and a Human city on Mars

[Carl Sagan]

20 hours ago, David said:

Come on @Carl Sagan get this thread back on track from these lot, bickering like school girls.

I understand todays launch had a slim chance of actually making it to Mars, the commentary said something like anything past the tower was a success.

I don't get the applause though when it blew up like it was a huge success. Would it not have been better to have been able to retrieve the rocket somehow, or are these not being built to land again like the others?

What's the turn around time now to try again with having to build a new rocket, which must be pretty costly to do?

This was an old prototype not expected to go very far. But there was applause because the system flew for the first time, before they blew it up when it started catherine-wheeling. But that in itself was an amazing demonstration of how robust the two halves were together. The version launched was quite shoddily built compared with the newer versions (there are three much more recent ones close to being ready to fly). 

Everyone expected this to either blow up on its own or to be blown up by SpaceX to stop it becoming dangerous. Had it somehow survived the flight it was due to be scuttled at sea. 

The only concerning issue around the launch which will likely lead to some rethinking, was the damage to the orbital launch mount. My take is they need to start the rocket much further off the ground. Others want them to build a "flame diverter" trench, but there are a lot of issues with this approach. But maybe they'll do both?

In the long run these rockets will be fully reusable. In fact the first fully reusable rapid-turnaround space vehicle ever. But you can't run before you can walk so they're testing lots of ideas out first.

 

[TigerTedd]

20 hours ago, David said:

Come on @Carl Sagan get this thread back on track from these lot, bickering like school girls.

I understand todays launch had a slim chance of actually making it to Mars, the commentary said something like anything past the tower was a success.

I don't get the applause though when it blew up like it was a huge success. Would it not have been better to have been able to retrieve the rocket somehow, or are these not being built to land again like the others?

What's the turn around time now to try again with having to build a new rocket, which must be pretty costly to do?

Once the mission had achieved its aim of a successful launch, anything else was a bit of a bonus. And then it’s just like watching the worlds biggest firework explode. Why wouldn’t you cheer and whoop at that? Oh, wait, just remembered who I’m replying to. 

[TigerTedd]

18 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

This was an old prototype not expected to go very far. But there was applause because the system flew for the first time, before they blew it up when it started catherine-wheeling. But that in itself was an amazing demonstration of how robust the two halves were together. The version launched was quite shoddily built compared with the newer versions (there are three much more recent ones close to being ready to fly). 

Everyone expected this to either blow up on its own or to be blown up by SpaceX to stop it becoming dangerous. Had it somehow survived the flight it was due to be scuttled at sea. 

The only concerning issue around the launch which will likely lead to some rethinking, was the damage to the orbital launch mount. My take is they need to start the rocket much further off the ground. Others want them to build a "flame diverter" trench, but there are a lot of issues with this approach. But maybe they'll do both?

In the long run these rockets will be fully reusable. In fact the first fully reusable rapid-turnaround space vehicle ever. But you can't run before you can walk so they're testing lots of ideas out first.

 

Could you explain the physics behind Axe Groves reaching the upper atmosphere with nothing but a rocket pack in the finale of the mandalorian?

I couldn’t help see that and thinking about this thread, and how much effort is going to get a rocket into space. And there he is with his little rocket pack. Surely the fuel alone would run out before he got past the tree tops. 

[GboroRam]

3 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

Could you explain the physics behind Axe Groves reaching the upper atmosphere with nothing but a rocket pack in the finale of the mandalorian?

I couldn’t help see that and thinking about this thread, and how much effort is going to get a rocket into space. And there he is with his little rocket pack. Surely the fuel alone would run out before he got past the tree tops. 

Did he use the force? 

[Carl Sagan]

17 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

Could you explain the physics behind Axe Groves reaching the upper atmosphere with nothing but a rocket pack in the finale of the mandalorian?

I couldn’t help see that and thinking about this thread, and how much effort is going to get a rocket into space. And there he is with his little rocket pack. Surely the fuel alone would run out before he got past the tree tops. 

Well, never having seen The Mandalorian this is tricky, but the reason for that is the whole Star Wars thing is not to my taste because it's "soft" science fiction, where you make it up as you go along and don't have to obey laws of physics, as opposed to the "hard" science fiction of Asimov, Clarke or Niven. According to Google this guy wears the JT-12 Jetpack https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/JT-12_jetpack which reaches a maximum speed of a massive 90mph. If the show has any basic consistency, then this suggests the planet or moon he's on has very low gravity? Or maybe he enhanced his jetpack somehow? The fuel on a Starship is frozen to make it denser, as opposed to a Human jetpack. If Axe's fuel was also "cryogenic" that would help it last longer.  

[TigerTedd]

7 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

Well, never having seen The Mandalorian this is tricky, but the reason for that is the whole Star Wars thing is not to my taste because it's "soft" science fiction, where you make it up as you go along and don't have to obey laws of physics, as opposed to the "hard" science fiction of Asimov, Clarke or Niven. According to Google this guy wears the JT-12 Jetpack https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/JT-12_jetpack which reaches a maximum speed of a massive 90mph. If the show has any basic consistency, then this suggests the planet or moon he's on has very low gravity? Or maybe he enhanced his jetpack somehow? The fuel on a Starship is frozen to make it denser, as opposed to a Human jetpack. If Axe's fuel was also "cryogenic" that would help it last longer.  

This is a good game. I’m going to ask you to explain more stupid science fiction technology that shouldn’t work in reality.

light sabres would be a good starting point.

you should really watch Star Wars. I imagine you’d find it hilarious to pick it all apart piece by piece. 

where do you stand on Interstellar? I imagine that would be right up your street. 

[maxjam]

I was born 50 years too early...

 

[Carl Sagan]

2 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

This is a good game. I’m going to ask you to explain more stupid science fiction technology that shouldn’t work in reality.

light sabres would be a good starting point.

you should really watch Star Wars. I imagine you’d find it hilarious to pick it all apart piece by piece. 

where do you stand on Interstellar? I imagine that would be right up your street. 

 

[Stive Pesley]

14 hours ago, maxjam said:

I was born 50 years too early...

 

Hmmm - i was with him until he said that WW3, Asteroid strike or climate change destroying earth didn't matter, because there would be a million people on Mars. Surely it's going to be hundreds of generations before any Mars colony is totally self-sustaining with no requirement  for any type of support from Earth? 

Then I remembered that it was TikTok 

[Gaspode]

11 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Hmmm - i was with him until he said that WW3, Asteroid strike or climate change destroying earth didn't matter, because there would be a million people on Mars. Surely it's going to be hundreds of generations before any Mars colony is totally self-sustaining with no requirement  for any type of support from Earth? 

Then I remembered that it was TikTok 

If he's taking Jessie Lingard up there, then I'm not going....

[Ramarena]

3 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Hmmm - i was with him until he said that WW3, Asteroid strike or climate change destroying earth didn't matter, because there would be a million people on Mars. Surely it's going to be hundreds of generations before any Mars colony is totally self-sustaining with no requirement  for any type of support from Earth? 

Then I remembered that it was TikTok 

In that scenario:

Who will own mars?

Who owns the colony infrastructure?

What laws will there be?

What would be the nationality status?

Who gets admitted/who doesn’t?

Does this all get dictated by the first billionaire to get there?

Etc, etc, etc.

Whilst one one hand it’s absolutely fascinating from a scientific perspective, it could be hugely problematic, given all the problems we would likely export there as a civilisation.

[Stive Pesley]

35 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

In that scenario:

Who will own mars?

Who owns the colony infrastructure?

What laws will there be?

What would be the nationality status?

Who gets admitted/who doesn’t?

Does this all get dictated by the first billionaire to get there?

Etc, etc, etc.

Whilst one one hand it’s absolutely fascinating from a scientific perspective, it could be hugely problematic, given all the problems we would likely export there as a civilisation.

I think these are all filed under "problems to solve once we've actually cracked getting there"

But you're right - it'd absolutely have to be run as a socialist cooperative collective to stand any chance of working - which obviously won't go down well with some people!

[GboroRam]

22 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

I think these are all filed under "problems to solve once we've actually cracked getting there"

But you're right - it'd absolutely have to be run as a socialist cooperative collective to stand any chance of working - which obviously won't go down well with some people!

I'm sure a rich multi billionaire will be able to pay everyone loads for their labour. Shame there will be nothing there to spend it on.

[TigerTedd]

17 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

 

I knew you’d like it. Apparently the only inaccurate thing in it is the solid clouds on the planet. And they spent so much time and money imaging the black hole using computer models that scientists now use it as a reference. 

[Ramarena]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

I think these are all filed under "problems to solve once we've actually cracked getting there"

But you're right - it'd absolutely have to be run as a socialist cooperative collective to stand any chance of working - which obviously won't go down well with some people!

I’m think more along the lines of corporate autocracy or libertarianism.

[Day]

21 hours ago, Ramarena said:

In that scenario:

Who will own mars?

Elon Musk

21 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Who owns the colony infrastructure?

Elon Musk

21 hours ago, Ramarena said:

What laws will there be?

They will be made up as he goes along.

21 hours ago, Ramarena said:

What would be the nationality status?

X

21 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Who gets admitted/who doesn’t?

Those who pay $8 a month

21 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Does this all get dictated by the first billionaire to get there?

Yes

21 hours ago, Ramarena said:

Etc, etc, etc.

Whilst one one hand it’s absolutely fascinating from a scientific perspective, it could be hugely problematic, given all the problems we would likely export there as a civilisation.

Jokes aside, these are good questions, as Mars is an untapped planet, nobody owns it and Elon is free to create these rockets in an attempted to get up there…..for now. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the US government would refuse permission to allow rockets to be launched from the country without some kind of controlling stake in what cracks off up there.

Move the rocket launch to another country? Sure, probably likely to run in to the same issues.

It even has the potential to start a war, can you see Russia, China etc. just sitting back and watching Mars taken over without any kind of interest? They are not happy with the land borders they have here on this planet as it is. 

 

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, David said:

Elon Musk

Elon Musk

They will be made up as he goes along.

X

Those who pay $8 a month

Yes

Jokes aside, these are good questions, as Mars is an untapped planet, nobody owns it and Elon is free to create these rockets in an attempted to get up there…..for now. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the US government would refuse permission to allow rockets to be launched from the country without some kind of controlling stake in what cracks off up there.

Move the rocket launch to another country? Sure, probably likely to run in to the same issues.

It even has the potential to start a war, can you see Russia, China etc. just sitting back and watching Mars taken over without any kind of interest? They are not happy with the land borders they have here on this planet as it is. 

 

He should buy a private island and launch from there. That would make him a proper Bond villain.

And he can make a private moon base, and space station. 

[Day]

4 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

He should buy a private island and launch from there. That would make him a proper Bond villain.

And he can make a private moon base, and space station. 

Epstein Island up for sale, probably best avoid that one though.

[Stive Pesley]

https://www.theonion.com/quiz-could-you-pass-the-spacex-aptitude-test-1850361878

[GboroRam]

2 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

https://www.theonion.com/quiz-could-you-pass-the-spacex-aptitude-test-1850361878

Q: Hypothetically, suppose that someone’s futurist philosophy as a tech billionaire is nothing more than thinly veiled fascism, and their ultimate goal is to architect an autocratic Martian society in which they rule as a despotic god-emperor who has free reign to impregnate any female member of said society. What do you do?