Starship and a Human city on Mars

[Stive Pesley]

Amazing scenes as India land a craft on the south pole of the moon!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-india-66576580

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Amazing scenes as India land a craft on the south pole of the moon!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-india-66576580

 

[Carl Sagan]

A second (very successful) Static Fire tonight for the new SuperHeavy booster as we close in on the next Orbital Flight Test

 

To address some comments on the thread, this is by far the world's greenest ever rocket, as well as being the most powerful. Combining both is quite a feat. It's the first rocket in Human history that doesn't throw any bits away, making all stages fully reusable.

To safeguard the launchpad (and with it the local environment) SpaceX has introduced the water deluge system I mention previously. Some now complain that this used "industrial waste water" rather than water out of the tap. Imagine the uproar if this used purified drinking water! I can't think of a better use of industrial waste water than this, but "hater's gotta hate". They'll always find something to pick fault with.

As well as the water system, the huge innovation with this new test flight is "hot stage separation". Previously, SpaceX was planning to switch off all the engines on the bottom stage, coast for a brief time, as the top stage (the Starship itself) separates, and then light the engines on the Starship. Now they're going to light the Starship engines while the SuperHeavy engines are still firing! This is a technique some Russian rockets have used. Will be interest to watch - in theory it's much more efficient, as long as it doesn't damage the top of the SuperHeavy booster (which has to be reused).

 

[Comrade 86]

On 25/08/2023 at 21:12, Carl Sagan said:

A second (very successful) Static Fire tonight for the new SuperHeavy booster as we close in on the next Orbital Flight Test

 

To address some comments on the thread, this is by far the world's greenest ever rocket, as well as being the most powerful. Combining both is quite a feat. It's the first rocket in Human history that doesn't throw any bits away, making all stages fully reusable.

To safeguard the launchpad (and with it the local environment) SpaceX has introduced the water deluge system I mention previously. Some now complain that this used "industrial waste water" rather than water out of the tap. Imagine the uproar if this used purified drinking water! I can't think of a better use of industrial waste water than this, but "hater's gotta hate". They'll always find something to pick fault with.

As well as the water system, the huge innovation with this new test flight is "hot stage separation". Previously, SpaceX was planning to switch off all the engines on the bottom stage, coast for a brief time, as the top stage (the Starship itself) separates, and then light the engines on the Starship. Now they're going to light the Starship engines while the SuperHeavy engines are still firing! This is a technique some Russian rockets have used. Will be interest to watch - in theory it's much more efficient, as long as it doesn't damage the top of the SuperHeavy booster (which has to be reused).

 

Know your subject.

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/05/world-s-most-environmentally-friendly-rocket-unveiled/

[Carl Sagan]

11 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Know your subject.

https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2022/05/world-s-most-environmentally-friendly-rocket-unveiled/

Know your subject.

While it's lovely that Orbex is launching from Scotland and trying to be more sustainable, the company has never landed or captured (during descent) or reused a rocket during its existence, so we shall have to wait and see if the talk translates into deeds. If it does, I will be extremely pleased. Overjoyed in fact. I might even be watching the attempts live.

But in that case it will only be able to lift about one-millionth as much mass as Starship into orbit. If you think a million Orbex Prime launches will be done more sustainably than one Starship launch, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Comrade 86]

31 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Know your subject.

While it's lovely that Orbex is launching from Scotland and trying to be more sustainable, the company has never landed or captured (during descent) or reused a rocket during its existence, so we shall have to wait and see if the talk translates into deeds. If it does, I will be extremely pleased. Overjoyed in fact. I might even be watching the attempts live.

But in that case it will only be able to lift about one-millionth as much mass as Starship into orbit. If you think a million Orbex Prime launches will be done more sustainably than one Starship launch, I have a bridge to sell you.

Know your subject. I mean you are a  self-proclaimed rocket scientist / scriptwriter / book editor / movie critic and football guru are you not?

Well I'm not, but I'll endeavour to help you out, given the obvious gaps in your own learning - It's designed to put small satellites in orbit. You're comparing apples and pears. It is nevertheless already a rocket. Hope that helps!

And using your rather dim-witted metrics, I'll be impressed when your man-crush lands humans on Mars, as all we hear from you and Musk's army of acolytes is the sound of gushing, fawning prattle. It's wearing thin for most already as has your championing of tech through your pocket.

On that note, I'm struggling to grasp what your realm of expertise really is, given your claims to know everything about everything. That is apparently, apart from what you watch every week, with both Didzy and Waggy written off before they'd kicked a ball in anger. Surely a scientist of any note at all would know the proof of the pudding is most often in the eating.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Comrade 86

[Comrade 86]

And so the whispering begins. I'll preserve the light of human consciousness, but your light only gets extended if you're loaded.

Oh, and if you work for me, forgeddaboutit.

[Comrade 86]

On 23/08/2023 at 13:37, Stive Pesley said:

Amazing scenes as India land a craft on the south pole of the moon!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-india-66576580

Our resident rocket scientist has failed to notice this, it would appear. Obviously rather less noteworthy than stuff blowing up in mid-air.

I wonder why that might be?

[AndyinLiverpool]

10 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Our resident rocket scientist has failed to notice this, it would appear. Obviously rather less noteworthy than stuff blowing up in mid-air.

I wonder why that might be?

The Indian space programme is not saving civilisation from wokeness?

[TigerTedd]

1 hour ago, Comrade 86 said:

Know your subject. I mean you are a  self-proclaimed rocket scientist / scriptwriter / book editor / movie critic and football guru are you not?

Well I'm not, but I'll endeavour to help you out, given the obvious gaps in your own learning - It's designed to put small satellites in orbit. You're comparing apples and pears. It is nevertheless already a rocket. Hope that helps!

And using your rather dim-witted metrics, I'll be impressed when your man-crush lands humans on Mars, as all we hear from you and Musk's army of acolytes is the sound of gushing, fawning prattle. It's wearing thin for most already as has your championing of tech through your pocket.

On that note, I'm struggling to grasp what your realm of expertise really is, given your claims to know everything about everything. That is apparently, apart from what you watch every week, with both Didzy and Waggy written off before they'd kicked a ball in anger. Surely a scientist of any note at all would know the proof of the pudding is most often in the eating.

He’s not ‘self-proclaimed’, he just is, and I would most definitely trust @Carl Sagan’s rocket science expertise above anyone else I could name. To question that is just silly.

Now his footballing views is a different kettle of fish. But he doesn’t claim to be a footballing expert, just a stupid fan like the rest of us.

you’re literally the person that just compared OrbeX with SpaceX, saying orbex is greener, and then you’re telling Carl that he’s the one comparing apples with oranges (that’s the phrase you were grasping for) when he literally says you can’t compare the two.

put it this way, you said apples are greener than oranges, Carl said, no, oranges are clearly not greener than apples, and you said, we’ll you can’t compare apples with oranges anyway. Nice one.

look, Elon is a bit of a crack pot, but he’s not a total idiot either. He’s making some questionable decisions with X, but for the most part, what he’s doing with SpaceX is a force for good, progress, it’s a step (a giant leap) in the right direction. I don’t get why people can’t acknowledge that two things can be true at once, you can think that Elon is a bit of a dick, but you can also be also be excited about some of things he’s doing. 

[Comrade 86]

42 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

He’s not ‘self-proclaimed’, he just is, and I would most definitely trust @Carl Sagan’s rocket science expertise above anyone else I could name. To question that is just silly.

Now his footballing views is a different kettle of fish. But he doesn’t claim to be a footballing expert, just a stupid fan like the rest of us.

you’re literally the person that just compared OrbeX with SpaceX, saying orbex is greener, and then you’re telling Carl that he’s the one comparing apples with oranges (that’s the phrase you were grasping for) when he literally says you can’t compare the two.

put it this way, you said apples are greener than oranges, Carl said, no, oranges are clearly not greener than apples, and you said, we’ll you can’t compare apples with oranges anyway. Nice one.

look, Elon is a bit of a crack pot, but he’s not a total idiot either. He’s making some questionable decisions with X, but for the most part, what he’s doing with SpaceX is a force for good, progress, it’s a step (a giant leap) in the right direction. I don’t get why people can’t acknowledge that two things can be true at once, you can think that Elon is a bit of a dick, but you can also be also be excited about some of things he’s doing. 

Well knowing more than others on here (read, regurgitation of SpaceX PR pieces) is not a recognised accreditation. Also, I've said there's a greener rocket Ted. I never mentioned SpaceX? My point is really that they've found a way to breach Earth's atmosphere using biofuel and if this scales, it will prove to be the greenest means of doing so currently available. By all means show me I'm wrong, though I'd say that was pretty exciting, yet along with the Indian lunar landing, it's not been worthy of 'expert' adulation. What we do have here is yet more  SpaceX PR designed to paint their behaviour in Boca Raton as eco friendly. I'm not buying it and I doubt many will. The damage done to the ecosystem of Boca Raton, not to mention the quality of life of its residents is clearly documented for those able to read without Musk blinkers and as such, you'll have to excuse my cynicism.

Equally, you imply I should be excited by what Musk is doing. I'm not sure what business of yours that is really, but ignoring that, can you explain the material effect he has had on my life, save for irritating the piss out of me? I've clearly missed it. Equally, how will SpaceX benefit me or those I care about? Do you seriously suppose that if climate disaster should begin to seriously impact humanity, it'll be your 'light of consciousness' that is preserved? 

In other news and on a lighter note, having called out Zuckerberg for a cage fight, the latest excuse from Musk is that he now needs an MRI and back surgery before he can fight. Musk is 6ft 2 and 200lbs. Zuckerberg is 5ft 7 and 11 stone wringing wet.

Just another promise made that won't be kept and therein lies the pinch.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Comrade 86

[Comrade 86]

Just for you @TigerTedd

https://www.businessinsider.com/boca-chica-residents-complain-about-space-x-2021-5?r=US&IR=T

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8424009/Residents-small-Texas-town-say-bullied-homes-Elon-Musks-SpaceX.html

https://www.planetary.org/articles/why-has-spacexs-starship-sparked-an-environmental-controversy#:~:text=As the rocket launched on,marine and coastal sanctuaries nearby.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/elon-musk-boca-chica-starbase-texas/

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/23052022/spacex-elon-musk-brownsville-boca-chica/

There are literally hundreds of articles out there, but you expect me to ignore all of them and buy SpaceX's green credentials.

Fine. Show me why, rather than just telling me.

[TigerTedd]

10 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

Also, I've said there's a greener rocket Ted. I never mentioned SpaceX?

Green-we, the er implies greener comparison with something else. The post was in response to something about space x being green. The implication is that it’s greener than space x. Which it is, it’s fantastic that we can get to space on bio fuel. But, as carl and you both say, that’s only really worth comparing with space x if it’s becomes scaleable. Maybe it will one day, and that will be cause for celebration. Maybe they can take their biofuel breakthroughs and collaborate with Musk’s self landing reusable break throughs. Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone just worked together. 

I’m not telling you how to think, but Neil Armstrong landing in the moon didn’t directly effect my dad, but he found it quite exciting. If you don’t find the idea of realisable rocket ships going to mars quite exciting, what are you even doing in this thread. You could probably have a lot more fun on the thread about how musk is destroying Twitter. This thread isn’t about musk, it’s about the advancements made towards putting a human city on mars. it just so happens that musk is closer than anyone to doing that right now. But I’d love to hear about anyone else that might be working towards the same goal. 

I don’t really care about the plight of the poor people in Texas, to be honest  you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. I’m sure space x are doing what they can to be as undisruptive as possible, but there’s only so much you can do. I bet there were similar nay sayers when they decided to put the Kennedy space centre next to Titusville, or even rolls Royce in derby. Now if you tried to shut Rolls Royce down, imagine the uproar. At the end of the day, the work has to be done somewhere, and Boca Raton is as good a place as any to do it.

it may never effect you in your lifetime, but when your great *10^20 grand kids are escaping our exploding star to some distant colony, I bet they’ll be thankful for the work that was done in Texas in the 21st century.

and I’ll let @Carl Sagan rattle off his cv of quals, he’s not just some rando on a forum, he really does know what he’s talking about. I’m a rando on a forum, I haven’t got a clue. 

[TigerTedd]

Just now, Comrade 86 said:

Just for you @TigerTedd

https://www.businessinsider.com/boca-chica-residents-complain-about-space-x-2021-5?r=US&IR=T

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8424009/Residents-small-Texas-town-say-bullied-homes-Elon-Musks-SpaceX.html

https://www.planetary.org/articles/why-has-spacexs-starship-sparked-an-environmental-controversy#:~:text=As the rocket launched on,marine and coastal sanctuaries nearby.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/elon-musk-boca-chica-starbase-texas/

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/23052022/spacex-elon-musk-brownsville-boca-chica/

There are literally hundreds of articles out there, but you expect me to ignore all of them and buy SpaceX's green credentials.

Fine. Show me why, rather than just telling me.

Space x isn’t a green company, it’s not meant to be a green company. They make reusable rockets because it’s economically sensible, not because it’s environmentally sensible. It just happens to be environmentally sensible too. But that isn’t the primary aim. There are many other projects in earth trying to make it green, and I’m hugely behind these, but space x’s primary goal is not to be green and it doesn’t really claim to be. It’s aim is to get to mars sustainably.

the question is whether or not that is an aim that is important enough to cause some local disruption. People will have differing opinions on that. But this thread is mainly for people who would like to hear the latest news and developments on the projects. 

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Green-we, the er implies greener comparison with something else. The post was in response to something about space x being green. The implication is that it’s greener than space x. Which it is, it’s fantastic that we can get to space on bio fuel. But, as carl and you both say, that’s only really worth comparing with space x if it’s becomes scaleable. Maybe it will one day, and that will be cause for celebration. Maybe they can take their biofuel breakthroughs and collaborate with Musk’s self landing reusable break throughs. Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone just worked together. 

I’m not telling you how to think, but Neil Armstrong landing in the moon didn’t directly effect my dad, but he found it quite exciting. If you don’t find the idea of realisable rocket ships going to mars quite exciting, what are you even doing in this thread. You could probably have a lot more fun on the thread about how musk is destroying Twitter. This thread isn’t about musk, it’s about the advancements made towards putting a human city on mars. it just so happens that musk is closer than anyone to doing that right now. But I’d love to hear about anyone else that might be working towards the same goal. 

I don’t really care about the plight of the poor people in Texas, to be honest  you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. I’m sure space x are doing what they can to be as undisruptive as possible, but there’s only so much you can do. I bet there were similar nay sayers when they decided to put the Kennedy space centre next to Titusville, or even rolls Royce in derby. Now if you tried to shut Rolls Royce down, imagine the uproar. At the end of the day, the work has to be done somewhere, and Boca Raton is as good a place as any to do it.

it may never effect you in your lifetime, but when your great *10^20 grand kids are escaping our exploding star to some distant colony, I bet they’ll be thankful for the work that was done in Texas in the 21st century.

and I’ll let @Carl Sagan rattle off his cv of quals, he’s not just some rando on a forum, he really does know what he’s talking about. I’m a rando on a forum, I haven’t got a clue. 

Well you are telling me how to think actually, as well as getting sneery in the process. You've even questioned my right to post.

Equally, I guess (based on your own admission) that your stated interest in a greener world only extends as far as your own environment, which is quite telling in itself. My post addressed the green credentials being claimed, a fact you've ignored, instead you've chosen to jump in, so my considered response would be what I say and where I say it is none of your business. You don't get to shut me down.

By all means respond to what I post though mate. I'm not your keeper and unlike Musk fans and the great man himself, I don't look to shut down debate, even if I think folk are talking utter b*******.

[Wolfie20]

There's some right mardy posters on these days. I hope they're not so nowty away from their keyboards.

[Comrade 86]

8 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Space x isn’t a green company, it’s not meant to be a green company. They make reusable rockets because it’s economically sensible, not because it’s environmentally sensible. It just happens to be environmentally sensible too. But that isn’t the primary aim. There are many other projects in earth trying to make it green, and I’m hugely behind these, but space x’s primary goal is not to be green and it doesn’t really claim to be. It’s aim is to get to mars sustainably.

the question is whether or not that is an aim that is important enough to cause some local disruption. People will have differing opinions on that. But this thread is mainly for people who would like to hear the latest news and developments on the projects. 

So you're now suggesting that SpaceX should be absolved of all ecological burdens because they may be shipping my great grandchildren around planets. That's your view, is it? It's not exactly a compelling argument is it?

And here's a suggestion - just stick me on ignore and you and your fellow acolytes can rejoice in an echo chamber where blowing s*** up is hailed as the height of human endeavour without anyone to spoil the circle jerk.

 

[TigerTedd]

24 minutes ago, Comrade 86 said:

So you're now suggesting that SpaceX should be absolved of all ecological burdens because they may be shipping my great grandchildren around planets. That's your view, is it? It's not exactly a compelling argument is it?

And here's a suggestion - just stick me on ignore and you and your fellow acolytes can rejoice in an echo chamber where blowing s*** up is hailed as the height of human endeavour without anyone to spoil the circle jerk.

 

No one gets ignored, you never know when someone might say something hilarious.

I use this thread as a place to keep up to date with the latest in space travel advancements. The post about india getting to the moon was very interesting, your post about orbex was also interesting. But you didn’t have to start that with, ‘no your subject’, kind of like telling Tyson Fury, ‘call that a punch.’

sure space x aren’t the greenest company in the world, but nor are they the worst offenders. They’re just sort of middle of the road capitalist d********, there is nothing particularly interesting about that, if I could be arses I could off a million links about other companies that locks people and all sorts of people have a beef with. But they are doing something amazing.

There’s nothing circle jerky about it. If satan himself made a reusable rocket, it would still be interesting and incredible. Even hitler made the vw beatle, and I don’t hold it against the car. If you’re interested in space travel, join in, if your not, start a thread called, ‘I’m not interested in space travel, it’s a big fat waste of time’. But there’s really no need to pick a fight here. 

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

No one gets ignored, you never know when someone might say something hilarious.

I use this thread as a place to keep up to date with the latest in space travel advancements. The post about india getting to the moon was very interesting, your post about orbex was also interesting. But you didn’t have to start that with, ‘no your subject’, kind of like telling Tyson Fury, ‘call that a punch.’

sure space x aren’t the greenest company in the world, but nor are they the worst offenders. They’re just sort of middle of the road capitalist d********, there is nothing particularly interesting about that, if I could be arses I could off a million links about other companies that locks people and all sorts of people have a beef with. But they are doing something amazing.

There’s nothing circle jerky about it. If satan himself made a reusable rocket, it would still be interesting and incredible. Even hitler made the vw beatle, and I don’t hold it against the car. If you’re interested in space travel, join in, if your not, start a thread called, ‘I’m not interested in space travel, it’s a big fat waste of time’. But there’s really no need to pick a fight here. 

Sorry Ted, but whilst I typically respect you as a poster, we're not going to agree on this. I'm not going to address the above post as I've made my position and the reasoning behind it abundantly clear already. Several times, in fact, but if you choose to view it as some all-encompassing and idiotic denial of the usefulness of space travel, that's your prerogative, though without wishing to 'start a fight', I'd suggest you've completely missed my point.

[Stive Pesley]

On 25/08/2023 at 21:12, Carl Sagan said:

To safeguard the launchpad (and with it the local environment) SpaceX has introduced the water deluge system I mention previously. Some now complain that this used "industrial waste water" rather than water out of the tap. Imagine the uproar if this used purified drinking water! I can't think of a better use of industrial waste water than this, but "hater's gotta hate". They'll always find something to pick fault with

I think you misread what was being said by the "haters". The issue was around the fact SpaceX weren't willing to get the necessary permits and certifications required to discharge the amount of industrial waste water that the launch disperses into the local environment. It seems to be Musk's MO - "I'm a billionaire and I can ignore the stuff I don't want to think about. Go ahead and fine me"

No one in their right mind would travel in a rocket developed under Musk's standards. Anyone like to have a bet on how many people will die before someone sets foot on Mars?