Ghost of Clough Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 37 minutes ago, David said: I am reading this topic, taking notes, and considering the next move. Talking with the club has been mentioned a few times and it’s something I will possibly look to do, although I do feel this should be independent from the clubs. To be totally honest, I was so pissed off last night when I wrote this which reactionary unplanned post. I’m actually struggling to get my head around why this morning, we knew this would happen, I guess I just hoped that we were wrong and the EFL would not waste more money from the clubs pot in what is an extremely difficult time financially for football clubs. What they hope to achieve from this I’m not sure, looks nothing more than a bid to save face and keep Gibson happy. Having run this forum for almost 12 years I’ve surprised myself how angry this has made me to the point of wanting to spearhead a campaign for our voices to be heard and change. Some will question the motives, is this just about Derby, I won’t deny that had this been another club this topic would not exist now, but it’s not just Derby, we’re just another club in a long list that have/are suffering from the EFL’s shambolic mismanagement and it has to stop. I think speaking to the club will help for a few reasons: you/we will understand more about the desire from other clubs to pursue a restructure of the current EFL or even forming a new FL which clubs to 'target'. We're almost certain to have Sheff Weds, Birmingham, Wigan on board - but are there any (publicly) silent backers that the club are aware of? give examples of the EFL's incompetence, backed up with figures such as those regarding the TV deal Whether they feel there is a preferred time of the season to push for change, so as to not distract matters on the pitch, but have maximum impact on those at the EFL I think there are two routes to get started: Open preliminary discussion with the club regarding the points listed above, and whatever else you/we can come up with. Form a 'Club's Supporters' Trust' or similar, compile a detailed plan of action. Then go back to the club for their views (maybe even receive their public backing?), then push on to gain support from other clubs. Same as above but without the preliminary discussion with the club @cheron85 outlined a good plan, contacting commercial partners, and even discussing options with the EFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: @Carnero outlined a good plan, contacting commercial partners, and even discussing options with the EFL Wasn't me matey. My solution involved nothing more than a can of petrol and a packet of Swan Vestas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Just now, Carnero said: Wasn't me matey. My solution involved nothing more than a can of petrol and a packet of Swan Vestas. Oops. Now corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, David said: Going by the tribunal comments it’s clear that Mel feels targeted, possibly over his vocal displeasure, although Steve Gibson has a lot to answer for threatening to sue the EFL if they didn’t take action. We also somehow upset Kieran Maguire enough to write into the EFL to question our accounts. It’s all a little bizarre really, as I mentioned when Mel has gone against the EFL it’s to get a fairer deal for all clubs, not just us, so it really would be interesting to know what rattled Gibson and Maguire. Steve Gibson has nothing to answer for, he is just protecting/defending his club just the same as MM would have done if the roles had been reversed, they were probably rattled by MM's ulterior motive or perceived ulterior motive. MM should have gone about it a different way and contacted the owners/CEO's of the other 71 clubs and got their views on the way to get a fairer deal and approached the EFL as a combined united body. As i said earlier not all the clubs will have a problem with how the EFL operates or the rules under which they are expected to comply to,just those that have had investigations started against them for possibly breaking/bending the rules to gain an unfair advantage in which case the EFL have acted in an appropriate manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, atherstoneram said: Steve Gibson has nothing to answer for, he is just protecting/defending his club just the same as MM would have done if the roles had been reversed, they were probably rattled by MM's ulterior motive or perceived ulterior motive. MM should have gone about it a different way and contacted the owners/CEO's of the other 71 clubs and got their views on the way to get a fairer deal and approached the EFL as a combined united body. As i said earlier not all the clubs will have a problem with how the EFL operates or the rules under which they are expected to comply to,just those that have had investigations started against them for possibly breaking/bending the rules to gain an unfair advantage in which case the EFL have acted in an appropriate manner. Speechless. You honestly think Steve Gibson has nothing to answer for, and protecting/defending his club from what exactly?? I’m yet to see Mel threaten to sue the EFL over another clubs actions, to suggest he would do the same is highly inaccurate given the opportunities to have done so. 18 clubs were not happy with the TV deal, you know what the EFL did? Pushed it through regardless. There were also reports of numerous clubs unhappy with the EFL’s decision to charge us, so I don’t think it’s as all hunky dory outside those being investigated as you think. As for bending/breaking rules, I believe the independent tribunal found us not guilty on the stadium sale and their appeal is only on the second charge of our accounts, let’s see how that one plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I wonder what the views would be of fans of all the other championship clubs regarding PL2? Is it even a possibility? Would the PL itself need to back it? If so what's in it for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, David said: Speechless. You honestly think Steve Gibson has nothing to answer for, and protecting/defending his club from what exactly?? I’m yet to see Mel threaten to sue the EFL over another clubs actions, to suggest he would do the same is highly inaccurate given the opportunities to have done so. 18 clubs were not happy with the TV deal, you know what the EFL did? Pushed it through regardless. There were also reports of numerous clubs unhappy with the EFL’s decision to charge us, so I don’t think it’s as all hunky dory outside those being investigated as you think. As for bending/breaking rules, I believe the independent tribunal found us not guilty on the stadium sale and their appeal is only on the second charge of our accounts, let’s see how that one plays out. 18 clubs were not happy with the TV deal, you know what the EFL did? Pushed it through regardless. That means 54 clubs (over 75%) were happy with the deal. It is all very well saying there were numerous other clubs unhappy with the EFL's decision to charge us, that remains unsubstantiated until they make that fact known and is subject to pure speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: 18 clubs were not happy with the TV deal, you know what the EFL did? Pushed it through regardless. That means 54 clubs (over 75%) were happy with the deal. It is all very well saying there were numerous other clubs unhappy with the EFL's decision to charge us, that remains unsubstantiated until they make that fact known and is subject to pure speculation 18 of 24 Championship clubs so 75% not happy. Jenkins estimates 18 Championship clubs were unhappy with the terms of the deal but, although acknowledging the "frustrations of a number of clubs", the EFL board voted it through. Quite a damning read from the recently departed West Brom Chief Executive https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54046448 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: 18 clubs were not happy with the TV deal, you know what the EFL did? Pushed it through regardless. That means 54 clubs (over 75%) were happy with the deal. It is all very well saying there were numerous other clubs unhappy with the EFL's decision to charge us, that remains unsubstantiated until they make that fact known and is subject to pure speculation Regarding the TV deal are we talking about just the championship clubs or the whole EFL? Answered above.......Too slow as usual!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said: Maybe it’s worth opening dialog with the club first. They’ll have a clearer idea on how many clubs would support us, know if it’s worth pushing for at this moment in time, and may suggest the best cause of action. If only someone had the phone number to someone at the club... ? 3 hours ago, RAMBOB said: How about contacting TalkSport with a view to seeking Simon Jordans views/advice. He is anti EFL and has been very vocal in his support of Mel. It would be very interesting to hear what he has to say. These are the two best solutions IMO. Far more effective to reach out to people with powerful voices, rather than starting a petition that fans of other clubs will probably laugh off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, David said: 18 of 24 Championship clubs so 75% not happy. Jenkins estimates 18 Championship clubs were unhappy with the terms of the deal but, although acknowledging the "frustrations of a number of clubs", the EFL board voted it through. Quite a damning read from the recently departed West Brom Chief Executive https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54046448 But the EFL represent 72 clubs not just 24 in the championship so they go along with the majority as i said 75%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, atherstoneram said: But the EFL represent 72 clubs not just 24 This is the crux of the problem. A club like Derby County has little in common with a club like Morcambe, yet we're all under the same media contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Does anyone know the actual deal for each of the 72 clubs last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 Just now, atherstoneram said: But the EFL represent 72 clubs not just 24 in the championship so they go along with the majority as i said 75%. As the article does not mention clubs outside the Championship your 75% is pure speculation is it not, unless you have any evidence of that? Even so, you have an estimated 18 of 24 clubs unhappy with the deal in the EFL’s top league, something isn’t right there clearly. Forget me just being a vocal football fan on a forum, when you have a recently departed CEO of a club calling for change, maybe it’s time to listen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 The long term solution to this is PL Div2 although the reservations around this and revenue loss for existing PL teams are mentioned in an earlier post. Maybe these reservations could be reduced by some sort of ring fencing around PL Div 2 protecting funding for Div 1 Members whilst improving on the existing arrangements. The West Brom former CEO articulates the overall concerns well in his comments to the BBC linked earlier with the major issue being the poor value to clubs of the 5 year TV deal. It's possible a third league could be set up to include the Championship and L1 Clubs but would be dependent on promotion/relegation between the PL and what remained of the EFL. Not easy to achieve. The increase in streaming and the potential entry into the market of global operators looking for original content may over time build the value of the packages. The loss to Sky of EFL games would leave a big hole in their schedules. The pressure is building for some changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Carnero said: This is the crux of the problem. A club like Derby County has little in common with a club like Morcambe, yet we're all under the same media contract. And why we need change. Without the Championship there is no EFL TV deal, that’s not to say they should be cut off completely and left to fend for themselves. We shouldn’t be in a situation where owners are losing millions just to survive whilst the Premier League are rolling in it as they know how to market their product better, so much so they can hand out big fat cheques to those that drop out despite them already cashing in on the bumper TV package money. Those parachute payments would be far better split between League 1 and 2 clubs each year, what is it now, £90m over the 3 seasons each?? Mad really, there’s so much wrong it’s difficult to even know where to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 minute ago, David said: As the article does not mention clubs outside the Championship your 75% is pure speculation is it not, unless you have any evidence of that? Even so, you have an estimated 18 of 24 clubs unhappy with the deal in the EFL’s top league, something isn’t right there clearly. Forget me just being a vocal football fan on a forum, when you have a recently departed CEO of a club calling for change, maybe it’s time to listen? As the EFL represent 72 clubs it would have to be put to a vote of all members as there are also league 1 and 2 matches shown on TV and get payments from the TV rights distributed accordingly I agree, may be it is time for other clubs to listen. What do you suggest a PL2 in which case clubs in leagues 1 and 2 would soon go to the wall and as a football fan i am sure you would not want that to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFruitsRam7 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 2 hours ago, David said: I know it wasn’t you that said it, but you quoted a post of mine which was questioning his “gobbling off” with paragraphs taken from the tribunal. There’s a difference between “gobbling off” in public and comments you make in a tribunal being made public. But I guess that doesn’t matter now as you’re not willing to debate because I think Mel is perfect apparently. Your choice, but the post you made had no relevance to the conversation I was in with another person. Just accept it. Mel Morris is to you what Chris Martin is to @RoyMac5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: As the EFL represent 72 clubs it would have to be put to a vote of all members as there are also league 1 and 2 matches shown on TV and get payments from the TV rights distributed accordingly I agree, may be it is time for other clubs to listen. What do you suggest a PL2 in which case clubs in leagues 1 and 2 would soon go to the wall and as a football fan i am sure you would not want that to happen I don’t think it needs to be a PL 2, for me the obvious solution would be for the parachute payment money to be distributed to L1 & L2 clubs instead. iFollow to stream all L1 & L2 games with profits distributed to those clubs, then look to sell Sky a TV package for the Championship only whilst allowing clubs to stream games that are not shown on TV if they wish to do so. The Championship is an exciting product, it’s time for the EFL to realise it’s value whilst protecting L1 and L2 clubs from going to the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Just accept it. Mel Morris is to you what Chris Martin is to @RoyMac5. I’m going to start writing your mobile number on public toilet walls if you carry on boyo! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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