Tribunal Update

[RamNut]

3 minutes ago, Duchess said:

Owls fan in peace.

I didn’t read it quite like that, although it is very convoluted and would have merited a much longer article. 
I read it that the sale of the stadium issue on its own wasn’t a breach of ffp that would merit a big points deduction. The charge of an ffp breach due to excessive losses was - for some obscure reason - a secondary charge. Wednesday were found guilty and a point deduction therefore applies, but it was deemed to be too late in the season to be applied, which I happen to agree with.

It looks like we are going to get a points deduction too which also applies next season. But the EFL are undermining their own competition. Financial compliance is more important than football now.  I don’t agree with points deductions and the permissible losses are too low in a world of escalating transfer fees. Players like Tomori are trapped as squad players at wealthy clubs, because championship clubs can’t afford to buy them. parachute money becomes increasingly relevant, and the loan system has gone beserk.  
 

 

[DCFC1388]

The way i see it is the EFL have pushed for both us & Sheff Weds to get 12 points deducted, sheff weds last seasom to relegate them and us next season to make it difficult.

Now its simply down to the independant panel to decide if we're guilty, what the punsihment is and when it applies.

Id have been concerned if at this point the EFL hadnt said what punishment they would like us to receive, that would have been said at the very start of our hearing.

Independant panel have clearly seen how incompentant the EFL are hence why they went against their punsihment for Sheff Weds. Lets hope they do similar for us and give us no punishment as our whole case is based on the EFL signing things off and backtracking a year or more later

[MackworthRamIsGod]

23 minutes ago, Duchess said:

Owls fan in peace.

With regards to our situation, based on this report the time line appears to be:
 
Should have punished club in 2018/19 but EFL chose to purposely wait because 12 points then wouldn't have relegated us.
 
Last year we were doing well in the league so instead of simply going for FFP punishment they went for 21points and made additional charges against individual directors.
 
When directors charges were dropped it messed up plan so didn't chase it as we were heading for good league position (we were third at Xmas) so again 12points wouldn't have got what they wanted.
 
After Xmas our form fell off a cliff and we fell like a stone they expedited the hearing to June to send us down with 12points.
 
Report will be interesting to read at least and sounds like EFL were indeed after making an example out of SWFC and were only interested in send club to league 1.

Nixon seems to be hinting that if found guilty you would be in a similar position in that the EFL are picking and choosing when to apply the points deduction that would apply as they don’t deem it severe enough and want to relegate both clubs. How the EFL can decide when to apply their own rules and when not to based purely on a desire to have maximum impact on a club is very questionable to say the least. At the end of the day the deductions for such breaches are set out in the rules and what affect that has on a clubs season shouldn’t come into it.

This would surely add weight to any appeal by ourselves and should you be found guilty any Derby appeal as well.

I think it has been obvious for a while that Parry wants to make an example of big clubs and relegate them and it seems the two of us are his chosen targets.

It really is absolutely shocking that their purpose is to wait to apply sanctions to have maximum impact.

No regard for fans what so ever.

The EFL are genuinely trying to ruin football! 

Again, they havent yet said how they are going to help its 72 members cope with the pandemic, 6 months on.

[Ambitious]

How can the EFL push for Wednesday’s point deduction in this year, so it would relegate them, but want to hold ours off until next season?

I’m sick to the back teeth of these cretinous *********. They’re a cancer and slowly killing football in the lower leagues. They can’t get their ducking act together and simply live off handouts from the Premier League. Comfortably the worst sports organisation on the entire planet, perhaps one of the worst organisations in any industry in the world. They need forcibly removing and English football needs to reform! 

[SamUltraRam]

Come on Mel, it's time to mastermind a plan and create PL2. It seems the only way to rid us of these EFL muppets

At the very least, the EFL rules need to be completely reviewed & rewritten 

[NottsRam77]

4 minutes ago, Duchess said:

Owls fan in peace.

With regards to our situation, based on this report the time line appears to be:
 
Should have punished club in 2018/19 but EFL chose to purposely wait because 12 points then wouldn't have relegated us.
 
Last year we were doing well in the league so instead of simply going for FFP punishment they went for 21points and made additional charges against individual directors.
 
When directors charges were dropped it messed up plan so didn't chase it as we were heading for good league position (we were third at Xmas) so again 12points wouldn't have got what they wanted.
 
After Xmas our form fell off a cliff and we fell like a stone they expedited the hearing to June to send us down with 12points.
 
Report will be interesting to read at least and sounds like EFL were indeed after making an example out of SWFC and were only interested in send club to league 1.

Nixon seems to be hinting that if found guilty you would be in a similar position in that the EFL are picking and choosing when to apply the points deduction that would apply as they don’t deem it severe enough and want to relegate both clubs. How the EFL can decide when to apply their own rules and when not to based purely on a desire to have maximum impact on a club is very questionable to say the least. At the end of the day the deductions for such breaches are set out in the rules and what affect that has on a clubs season shouldn’t come into it.

This would surely add weight to any appeal by ourselves and should you be found guilty any Derby appeal as well.

Appreciate the post buddy, think we can all agree the EFL arnt fit for purpose quite frankly.

They allow clubs like Bolton, Blackburn, forest (fatwaz), Pompy and cov (sisu or whatever their called) to pass the fit and proper persons test who then either run the club like a shambles or fleece them dry

To my knowledge Wednesday we’re found not guilty of any charges other than declaring the monies in the incorrect financial year to circumnavigate the ffp 3 year cycle.

unless there’s something we don’t know about I’m still not sure how we’ve even been charged as naive as that my sound.

hope u guys successfully challenge the outcome always had nothing but respect for Wednesday, proper football club and most importantly u don’t seem to have many problems in general in letting us have 3 points lol ? 

[RadioactiveWaste]

So, apart from current PL teams who would never leave the cash cow, what teams would join (or we like to see) in our breakaway league?

I'd certainly have Cov and Sunderland, we'd have to have Forest and Wednesday in it, and, more importantly, who do we decide we're not going to let in (purely vexatious and petty reasons are to be encouraged) - For a start I'd not let Millwall or Boro in.

[NottsRam77]

30 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I didn’t read it quite like that, although it is very convoluted and would have merited a much longer article. 
I read it that the sale of the stadium issue on its own wasn’t a breach of ffp that would merit a big points deduction. The charge of an ffp breach due to excessive losses was - for some obscure reason - a secondary charge. Wednesday were found guilty and a point deduction therefore applies, but it was deemed to be too late in the season to be applied, which I happen to agree with.

It looks like we are going to get a points deduction too which also applies next season. But the EFL are undermining their own competition. Financial compliance is more important than football now.  I don’t agree with points deductions and the permissible losses are too low in a world of escalating transfer fees. Players like Tomori are trapped as squad players at wealthy clubs, because championship clubs can’t afford to buy them. parachute money becomes increasingly relevant, and the loan system has gone beserk.  
 

 

Wernt Wednesday only found guilty of incorrect accounting?? Hence the penalty ... ie: declaring The sale of the club in the wrong financial year to clearly circumnavigate the 3 year ffp cycle.

as I understand it they were cleared of everything else.

they did it all by the book/efl... bar the thing they got charged and found guilty for 

 

[Reggie Greenwood]

32 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I didn’t read it quite like that, although it is very convoluted and would have merited a much longer article. 
I read it that the sale of the stadium issue on its own wasn’t a breach of ffp that would merit a big points deduction. The charge of an ffp breach due to excessive losses was - for some obscure reason - a secondary charge. Wednesday were found guilty and a point deduction therefore applies, but it was deemed to be too late in the season to be applied, which I happen to agree with.

It looks like we are going to get a points deduction too which also applies next season. But the EFL are undermining their own competition. Financial compliance is more important than football now.  I don’t agree with points deductions and the permissible losses are too low in a world of escalating transfer fees. Players like Tomori are trapped as squad players at wealthy clubs, because championship clubs can’t afford to buy them. parachute money becomes increasingly relevant, and the loan system has gone beserk.  
 

 

I still don't think we will get a points deduction , if what the club statement said is true then we will be found with no case to answer. Wednesday got done not for the stadium sale but by putting it in the wrong years accounts. Our cases are totally different.

[NottsRam77]

3 minutes ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

I still don't think we will get a points deduction , if what the club statement said is true then we will be found with no case to answer. Wednesday got done not for the stadium sale but by putting it in the wrong years accounts. Our cases are totally different.

Totally agree 

I’m just concerned that if it was that simple then why the charge ?

but as u say I’m still totally confused as to how there’s even a charge 

[Sith Happens]

Just now, NottsRam77 said:

Totally agree 

I’m just concerned that if it was that simple then why the charge ?

but as u say I’m still totally confused as to how there’s even a charge 

just so they can say to that Gibson fella they tried 

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, RandomAccessMemory said:

I know what you mean, not sure we can read too much into it though unfortunately. I do find it interesting that this seems to have come from the SW report though, so the EFL told the SW IDC what they had planned to do to us!

Few Nixon tweets from this morning

The timing thing is very interesting as it mentions that it should have been applied for the 2018/19 season, as Birmingham's for a breach in the same time period was.

If that is saying the EFL knew they should have punished them then but didn't as it wouldn't hurt them, as opposed to the IDC saying a breach for that 3 years should have been applied in that season, why (going back to that March 2019 EFL statement) did they say no team other than Birmingham had failed?! If they were £18m over the limit for that 3 year period as the article says, it's not like it wasn't going to be obvious!

Also, "first breach" in the quote above? Does that mean they've not accepted their ground sale for the correct year, or at least not accepted it at £60m, so they've breached it again for the next period? Very curious, I really can't wait to read this report.

Actually there is something very serious going on here if I am reading this correctly, if Sheffield Wednesday should have been punished in a year where it wouldn’t  have a material effect but the EFL chose to delay it ( the charge) to a year where it would then there is a very real case of victimisation going on and besides Birmingham got punished in a year where it didn’t have a material effect on team did it? - I would like to read this report ! 

[NottsRam77]

6 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

just so they can say to that Gibson fella they tried 

I sincerely hope that’s the case 

[R@M]

7 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Totally agree 

I’m just concerned that if it was that simple then why the charge ?

but as u say I’m still totally confused as to how there’s even a charge 

Because.....if the EFL have made mistakes re us, and if they aren’t seen to be doing anything about it, they would be open to dozens of compensation claims from every club affected. The Gibson effect. Trying to make us the fall guys. 

[Sparkle]

1 hour ago, Duchess said:

Owls fan in peace.

With regards to our situation, based on this report the time line appears to be:
 
Should have punished club in 2018/19 but EFL chose to purposely wait because 12 points then wouldn't have relegated us.
 
Last year we were doing well in the league so instead of simply going for FFP punishment they went for 21points and made additional charges against individual directors.
 
When directors charges were dropped it messed up plan so didn't chase it as we were heading for good league position (we were third at Xmas) so again 12points wouldn't have got what they wanted.
 
After Xmas our form fell off a cliff and we fell like a stone they expedited the hearing to June to send us down with 12points.
 
Report will be interesting to read at least and sounds like EFL were indeed after making an example out of SWFC and were only interested in send club to league 1.

Nixon seems to be hinting that if found guilty you would be in a similar position in that the EFL are picking and choosing when to apply the points deduction that would apply as they don’t deem it severe enough and want to relegate both clubs. How the EFL can decide when to apply their own rules and when not to based purely on a desire to have maximum impact on a club is very questionable to say the least. At the end of the day the deductions for such breaches are set out in the rules and what affect that has on a clubs season shouldn’t come into it.

This would surely add weight to any appeal by ourselves and should you be found guilty any Derby appeal as well.

I always keep an eye on the Sheffield clubs as my mum is from Sheffield but she was evacuated to the Derby area after the Germans blew up her house during World War Two and we share a common feeling

we can’t stand Dirty Leeds, we can’t stand scabby Forest, and we have had long periods of being each other’s bogey opponent ( we are currently enjoying ours thanks) 

rules are rules and if we broke them then we should be punished but there is absolutely no consistency what so ever when it comes to the EFL  

[DavesaRam]

2 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Everyone outside of the panel (yet to decide) and DCFC thinks we're guilty. But grammar in newspapers is generally very poor.

the content in newspapers isn't any better.

[Reggie Greenwood]

Facts of the case as i see them

Was the Stadium sale within EFL rules at the time ........Yes

Was the valuation done by a legit company... Yes a multi national of repute and by the same company who did the previous valuations

Did the EFL agree with the sale and valuation......Yes to both in writing with a small adjustment for the valuation ( according to the club statement and i cannot see why they would put that out in the public domain if not true )

Was the sale in the correct years accounts.....Yes and EFL not challenging this.

The accounts amortisation Is the method legal ........Yes according to G of C plus others on here who know better than me . Unusual but legal and apparently had been a method used widely in the past ( again others will confirm or deny this )

Where these accounts signed off by the EFL .....yes for at least 3 years

The "mistake" by the EFL alluded to by the club statement i am not sure if that is to do with the EFL approving the accounts or the acceptance of the valuation or both ?

Either way i cannot see how we can be guilty of breaches and if the mistakes are on the EFL's part the worst i can see is that we are asked to bring our accounting procedures in line with others with a period of adjustment.

If the EFL want to argue the valuation i think they would have  a big legal battle not with DCFC but the valuation firm protecting their reputation.

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, Reggie Greenwood said:

Facts of the case as i see them

Was the Stadium sale within EFL rules at the time ........Yes

Was the valuation done by a legit company... Yes a multi national of repute and by the same company who did the previous valuations

Did the EFL agree with the sale and valuation......Yes to both in writing with a small adjustment for the valuation ( according to the club statement and i cannot see why they would put that out in the public domain if not true )

Was the sale in the correct years accounts.....Yes and EFL not challenging this.

The accounts amortisation Is the method legal ........Yes according to G of C plus others on here who know better than me . Unusual but legal and apparently had been a method used widely in the past ( again others will confirm or deny this )

Where these accounts signed off by the EFL .....yes for at least 3 years

The "mistake" by the EFL alluded to by the club statement i am not sure if that is to do with the EFL approving the accounts or the acceptance of the valuation or both ?

Either way i cannot see how we can be guilty of breaches and if the mistakes are on the EFL's part the worst i can see is that we are asked to bring our accounting procedures in line with others with a period of adjustment.

If the EFL want to argue the valuation i think they would have  a big legal battle not with DCFC but the valuation firm protecting their reputation.

Exactly as I see it mate 

[therealhantsram]

The full judgement on the Wednesday case will be published tomorrow apparently. 

Big insight from this report is that the EFL wanted to apply the point penalty last season, but the panel said that would be unfair because the EFL left it too late to charge them. 

 

 

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, therealhantsram said:

Big insight from this report is that the EFL wanted to apply the point penalty last season

Well they can be unfair on us and punish us last season if we're guilty!