Accounts Overdue

[Tamworthram]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Got to admit I'm slightly (only very slightly) worried about this.

I dont know why the accounts were not submitted in March for starters, as they have to be submitted to the EFL in December I believe so must have been prepared already.

The fact that the auditors may insist on a material uncertainty is neither here nor there in my opinion. 

Mel is the only interested party (no external debt) and if it is to do with new investment it's not like they are going to be oblivious to the current climate!

I'm hoping that the problem is not the use of the going concern basis due to lack of evidence of support and ability to carry on trading in current climate.

The more I look at the last accounts of the club, the parent company (Sevco 5112) and the other companies in the group including Gellway 101 the less I understand and the more worried I have become especially after watching a programme on Sky Documentaries the other day about the crash of Enron (not the same thing I know).

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

Still clutching at straws. Companies house have managed to process and record every other championship clubs accounts on time.

I'm guessing we have a history of submitting our accounts very late - which means we can't see the accounts on Companies Accounts until some time after the deadline. If tey aren't there by this time next week I'll start getting a bit concerned (put it down to the Covid backlog), another week on that and I'd start asking questions of the club.

[Ghost of Clough]

51 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I would add again, every other club in the championship have managed to submit on time.

How do you know we haven't submitted on time? They likely were submitted on time, but Companies House haven't processed them yet. Most clubs didn't take advantage of the 3 month extension - Brentford certainly did, and Leeds may have done too, but still within the first month.

[RoyMac5]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

How do you know we haven't submitted on time? They likely were submitted on time, but Companies House haven't processed them yet. Most clubs didn't take advantage of the 3 month extension - Brentford certainly did, and Leeds may have done too, but still within the first month.

Just us and Sheff Weds then. I wonder why?

[Tamworthram]

9 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

How do you know we haven't submitted on time? They likely were submitted on time, but Companies House haven't processed them yet. Most clubs didn't take advantage of the 3 month extension - Brentford certainly did, and Leeds may have done too, but still within the first month.

Fair point. I guess they could be sitting at companies house waiting to be filed but, my guess is, they aren’t.

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Just us and Sheff Weds then. I wonder why?

Wednesday's aren't due until the end of the month.
Ours may have been submitted and are in the backlog due to get processed at CH.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Wednesday's aren't due until the end of the month.
Ours may have been submitted and are in the backlog due to get processed at CH.

Ah. Thought it might be to do with the EFL stuff, how come Wendies are a different date?

[cool_as_custard]

When Companies House have received accounts but not processed them they usually show a change of coloured text to indicate this.

Given that one of the EFL charges against us relate directly to an accounting policy then, if we submitted accounts still using that accounting policy, we would probably be required to re-file them using a policy the EFL approve of. But only if found guilty. Auditors advice may well be to hold fire, especially given the paltry fines imposed.

[ThePrisoner]

10 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Ah. Thought it might be to do with the EFL stuff, how come Wendies are a different date?

You can have a different date for your end of year business stuff I believe. Each club is different.

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, Tamworthram said:

I'm not an accountant but surely the main body of the annual submission is factual (if there is such a thing in accountancy) performance for the twelve months up to the end of the financial year and financial position in terms of current assets and liabilities as at that specific time. Any reference in either the directors reports or audtitor's comments regarding current and future trading (in particular relating to uncertainty over Covid 19) shouldn't delay submission and should be the best they can provide at that moment in time. If anyone is waiting for some certainty over the medium to long term effects of CV 19 on a companies trading then I suspect they'll have a bit to wait yet. With regard to the one you have that is six months overdue, who will be paying the late submission fine do you think?

I would add again, every other club in the championship have managed to submit on time.

all I am speaking from is experience which in this case may not be appropriate, I agree that only 2 failing to meet the deadline is suspicious

[Ghost of Clough]

18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Ah. Thought it might be to do with the EFL stuff, how come Wendies are a different date?

Most clubs now have a deadline set as the end of June. Wednesday are the only ones later than this (end of July), a few such as Forest, Stoke and Cardiff are end of May, Swansea's is end of April, and Millwall end of March. You can change the accounting period. A couple did that this year to move to the end of June, whereas a few years ago we brought ours forward by 2 months (10 month accounting period).

[Tamworthram]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Most clubs now have a deadline set as the end of June. Wednesday are the only ones later than this (end of July), a few such as Forest, Stoke and Cardiff are end of May, Swansea's is end of April, and Millwall end of March. You can change the accounting period. A couple did that this year to move to the end of June, whereas a few years ago we brought ours forward by 2 months (10 month accounting period).

I think Millwall is end of June and Swansea end of May. It makes sense to coincide with the end of the season.

[G STAR RAM]

45 minutes ago, cool_as_custard said:

When Companies House have received accounts but not processed them they usually show a change of coloured text to indicate this.

Given that one of the EFL charges against us relate directly to an accounting policy then, if we submitted accounts still using that accounting policy, we would probably be required to re-file them using a policy the EFL approve of. But only if found guilty. Auditors advice may well be to hold fire, especially given the paltry fines imposed.

The EFL have absolutely no say on a Limited Company's accounting policies.

[Ghost of Clough]

29 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I think Millwall is end of June and Swansea end of May. It makes sense to coincide with the end of the season.

[cool_as_custard]

41 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The EFL have absolutely no say on a Limited Company's accounting policies.

That's the whole basis of the second strand of their charges against us. The one that Kieran Maguire alerted them to (allegedly) which involves allocating a player a value at the end of their contract, instead of amortising his value down to zero. Turns out EFL have decided they don't like this now, about 4 years after we started doing it and our auditors signed off on the policy. 

Yet again, smacks of the EFL needing to tighten up their rules after a member has been seen to stretch them to a point they weren't anticipating.

[Ghost of Clough]

6 minutes ago, cool_as_custard said:

That's the whole basis of the second strand of their charges against us. The one that Kieran Maguire alerted them to (allegedly) which involves allocating a player a value at the end of their contract, instead of amortising his value down to zero. Turns out EFL have decided they don't like this now, about 4 years after we started doing it and our auditors signed off on the policy. 

Yet again, smacks of the EFL needing to tighten up their rules after a member has been seen to stretch them to a point they weren't anticipating.

The P&S reports we submit to the EFL are different to what we send to Companies House. As far as I know, the accounts for CH can use the amortisation method currently in place, whereas P&S reports can change to a method the EFL are happy with. A bit of extra financial work to manage both methods at the same time though.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Oh right. So Swansea are 31st July not 30th June or April so, we were both wrong. 30th April is the date they need to be submitted by (i.e. 9 months after their year end) not their actual year end.

[Ghost of Clough]

9 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Oh right. So Swansea are 31st July not 30th June or April so, we were both wrong. 30th April is the date they need to be submitted by (i.e. 9 months after their year end) not their actual year end.

I was intending to just talk about the due date. Forget I mentioned anything about accounting period ?‍♂️

[RadioactiveWaste]

33 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

The P&S reports we submit to the EFL are different to what we send to Companies House. As far as I know, the accounts for CH can use the amortisation method currently in place, whereas P&S reports can change to a method the EFL are happy with. A bit of extra financial work to manage both methods at the same time though.

I think that's the nub of it, creating an apparent inconsistency (even if it may be technically correct)

[Tamworthram]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I was intending to just talk about the due date. Forget I mentioned anything about accounting period ?‍♂️

I assume the extra 3 months given to companies currently only applies to companies who's year end is up until the end of June.

Swansea year end = 31/7/20. Due to be filed by 30/4/21 (year end + 9 months)

Leeds (as an example) year end = 30/6/20. Due to be filed by 30/6/21 (y/e + 12 months)

Bristol City (as another example) year end =  31/5/20. Due to be filed by 31/5/21 (y/e + 12 months).

So the due date for Swansea is a bit misleading.