Coronavirus

[Andicis]

Just now, Albert said:

Who ever are these 'lockdown cheerleaders' exactly? I honestly haven't seen anyone on here who thinks they are a positive thing, I certainly don't. They're a horrible thing, which should be avoided through better policy. They're a fallback when things go wrong, the issue is that the UK's response has been so poor as to require them at this point. 

Whatever you say, Albert. Will be nice to be in Australia not dealing with the fallout of the thing you've called for over the year, I'm sure. 

[Albert]

19 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Whatever you say, Albert. Will be nice to be in Australia not dealing with the fallout of the thing you've called for over the year, I'm sure. 

Maybe read my posts at some point, might help you understand the argument. 

Lockdowns are forced through poor management, they are better than the alternative of risking cascading collapse of the health services, and the knockon effects of that.

The broader point is that properly managed, it should never come to long lockdowns, though circuit break ones can be useful at key times. Even just having high case loads damages the economy though. The UK's problem now is that these lockdowns are being forced by the circumstances the government has put the country in. 

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

Maybe read my posts at some point, might help you understand the argument. 

Lockdowns are forced through poor management, they are better than the alternative of risking cascading collapse of the health services, and the knockon effects of that.

The broader point is that properly managed, it should never come to long lockdowns, though circuit break ones can be useful at key times. Even just having high case loads damages the economy though. The UK's problem now is that these lockdowns are being forced by the circumstances the government has put the country in. 

Honestly, I'm not that invested in this. What I know for sure is that my chances of getting a job next summer have been torpedoed due to this lockdown people have been desperately calling for, and the economic devastation that comes with it is what people who have called for it should have to own. 

[Albert]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Honestly, I'm not that invested in this. What I know for sure is that my chances of getting a job next summer have been torpedoed due to this lockdown people have been desperately calling for, and the economic devastation that comes with it is what people who have called for it should have to own. 

It's not about 'people calling for it', it's being force by the dire situation that is presenting itself. 

The same logic you're applying here goes right back on you and your cheerleading against controlling the virus when there was a chance to do it. A circuitbreaker lockdown back in September, when suggested, would have been shorter and for greater gains. The damage is done now. 

That said, it's all moot as the responsibility for the choices ultimately rests with the government, who have been nothing short of incompetent through this whole fiasco. Lives and livelihoods are being lost at incredible rates because they refused to listen to the advice when they needed to. The damage that is being done is extraordinary on all sides, and ultimately, when all is said and done, someone is going to need to answer for that. 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Albert said:

Maybe read my posts at some point, might help you understand the argument. 

Lockdowns are forced through poor management, they are better than the alternative of risking cascading collapse of the health services, and the knockon effects of that.

The broader point is that properly managed, it should never come to long lockdowns, though circuit break ones can be useful at key times. Even just having high case loads damages the economy though. The UK's problem now is that these lockdowns are being forced by the circumstances the government has put the country in. 

????? circuit breaker ????? it’s a lock down under another name 

[Marriot Ram99]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Hope they have some extra staff ready to answer the phones at the Samaritans...

 

 

Those figures are truly phenomenal

That borrowing is beyond indecent, they are going to have to hike up taxes or make major austerity measures now or pass the burden on to future generations. All because of a  Chinese virus that was left uncontrolled that the government let in like a friend coming round for a drink. 

[ariotofmyown]

2 hours ago, Andicis said:

It's going to be absolutely devastating. Probably cause more death and misery than Covid has. The lockdown cheerleaders got what they wanted though.

Stupid thing to say. Like saying that all those people who voted for Johnson and his hopeless crew got what they wanted.

[Andicis]

2 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Stupid thing to say. Like saying that all those people who voted for Johnson and his hopeless crew got what they wanted.

How's it stupid? People called for the economy to be screwed and jobs to be lost when they called for more restrictions, and this is what will happen. 

[ariotofmyown]

4 minutes ago, Andicis said:

How's it stupid? People called for the economy to be screwed and jobs to be lost when they called for more restrictions, and this is what will happen. 

Hope you situation is ok

[Albert]

15 minutes ago, Archied said:

????? circuit breaker ????? it’s a lock down under another name 

It's literally a lockdown, but one targeted at a particular time to prevent longer, harsher ones in the future. The UK didn't need to have these longer lockdowns, following the advice could have been short and sharp. Instead, we're got this situation. 

11 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

That borrowing is beyond indecent, they are going to have to hike up taxes or make major austerity measures now or pass the burden on to future generations. All because of a  Chinese virus that was left uncontrolled that the government let in like a friend coming round for a drink. 

It's pretty indecent to call it the 'Chinese virus' this far into it all.

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

How's it stupid? People called for the economy to be screwed and jobs to be lost when they called for more restrictions, and this is what will happen. 

The virus was already causing issues with the economy, and failing to stop the spread would only cause worse problems. Sometimes the medicine isn't nice. 

[Andicis]

Just now, Albert said:

The virus was already causing issues with the economy, and failing to stop the spread would only cause worse problems. Sometimes the medicine isn't nice. 

In. Your. Opinion. Just because you continue to present it as fact, doesn't make it so. It is without question lockdown restrictions have tanked the British economy worse than it would have been without them and the impact will likely be felt long after this virus is gone. 

[Marriot Ram99]

4 minutes ago, Albert said:

It's literally a lockdown, but one targeted at a particular time to prevent longer, harsher ones in the future. The UK didn't need to have these longer lockdowns, following the advice could have been short and sharp. Instead, we're got this situation. 

It's pretty indecent to call it the 'Chinese virus' this far into it all.

The virus was already causing issues with the economy, and failing to stop the spread would only cause worse problems. Sometimes the medicine isn't nice. 

Where is it from then? It's their gift to the world and for me there should be repercussions they should have to take as much as that sounds like a Donald Trump line of thought China will benefit from this and take advantage of the situation whilst other countries suffer economically. I am not being xenophobic to Chinese people but it almost seems convenient to me, it's their government I dislike not their people as a whole to be clear. 

[Marriot Ram99]

6 minutes ago, Albert said:

It's literally a lockdown, but one targeted at a particular time to prevent longer, harsher ones in the future. The UK didn't need to have these longer lockdowns, following the advice could have been short and sharp. Instead, we're got this situation. 

It's pretty indecent to call it the 'Chinese virus' this far into it all.

The virus was already causing issues with the economy, and failing to stop the spread would only cause worse problems. Sometimes the medicine isn't nice. 

What baalocks the medicine isn't nice, people should manage their own risks what's gives the government the right to destroy their own countries economy and ruin lives for decades to come to save face for their ******** decisions? 

[ariotofmyown]

2 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

What baalocks the medicine isn't nice, people should manage their own risks what's gives the government the right to destroy their own countries economy and ruin lives for decades to come to save face for their ******** decisions? 

Us, the people, give the government the right to make decisions on our behalf. We are to blame for whom we elect. If most of the cabinet got a senior position at a small fireplace sales company, they would be out of their depth.

[ariotofmyown]

9 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

Where is it from then? It's their gift to the world and for me there should be repercussions they should have to take as much as that sounds like a Donald Trump line of thought China will benefit from this and take advantage of the situation whilst other countries suffer economically. I am not being xenophobic to Chinese people but it almost seems convenient to me, it's their government I dislike not their people as a whole to be clear. 

What repercussions should we carry out against the Chinese government, which would not impact the people there who you like? 

[Albert]

1 minute ago, Andicis said:

In. Your. Opinion. Just because you continue to present it as fact, doesn't make it so. It is without question lockdown restrictions have tanked the British economy worse than it would have been without them and the impact will likely be felt long after this virus is gone. 

So it's just my opinion that countries that didn't use lockdowns also suffered similarly economically? 

You say that it is 'without question' that lockdown restrictions have tanked the economy worse, but what do you base this on? We know that the economy has suffered as a result, but we also know that countries without such restrictions have also suffered similarly. What we don't know is how much damage would be done in the UK if the fire was left to burn. The restrictions have clearly had an impact, with things beginning to slow in the weeks after the tier system was brought in, and the things now plateauing with the national lockdown. Following the trend from the start of September to the week following the tier system, however, shows the scale of difference in the impact on healthcare. 

There was a 118 admission per day average on 01/09/2020, which peaked at 1759 on average on the 14th, which is now down to 1633. Following the trend that was seen, however, which followed an exponential trend very tightly, we would be looking at over 5000 a day by this point. I know you like the write off the impact of the virus, but that's the issue with exponential systems, particularly ones with a response lag, things can get out of hand very quickly. 

[Marriot Ram99]

5 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

What repercussions should we carry out against the Chinese government, which would not impact the people there who you like? 

Less power in world summits and international decision making until they can get their own house in order, so not any economic sanctions. Seems fair enough I think. 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Albert said:

You say that it is 'without question' that lockdown restrictions have tanked the economy worse, but what do you base this on? We know that the economy has suffered as a result, but we also know that countries without such restrictions have also suffered similarly.

It's pure common sense that closing businesses would cause the economy to be tanked more than leaving them open. What country doesn't have restrictions? Other than the US, which bounced back pretty well, I can't think of many left without. 

 

2 minutes ago, Albert said:

I know you like the write off the impact of the virus, but that's the issue with exponential systems, particularly ones with a response lag, things can get out of hand very quickly. 

I know you like to write off the impact of economic devastation, but it's going to take years to bounce back from this. 

[Marriot Ram99]

12 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Us, the people, give the government the right to make decisions on our behalf. We are to blame for whom we elect. If most of the cabinet got a senior position at a small fireplace sales company, they would be out of their depth.

Personally I don't think the system of governance works anymore not representative what so ever and isn't proper democracy,  its a toxic democracy that doesn't work at all. Not as bad as in America but not great by any means. If other parties were in they may have done the same if not worse, I think for me it's more a grievance and distrust of government in general. 

[Albert]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's pure common sense that closing businesses would cause the economy to be tanked more than leaving them open. What country doesn't have restrictions? Other than the US, which bounced back pretty well, I can't think of many left without. 

So none at all, cool. 

Sweden went for a strategy of avoiding lockdowns, more personal freedoms etc, and that's fallen flat on its face in virtually every metric. 

The USA's case is an interesting one, as while they have seen some recovery in the last quarter, they are now also facing high case loads, despite each state having responsibility for their own controls. Each state has handled it differently, so looking at it state by state is usually better. For them, it'll be interesting to see the economic figures over the next few quarters with this latest wave. 

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I know you like to write off the impact of economic devastation, but it's going to take years to bounce back from this. 

I've not written this off at all, in fact, it's one of the key reasons I'm so critical of the UK's response. They condemned the economy by failing to control the virus. The damage of those decisions will last decades. 

3 minutes ago, Marriott Ram99 said:

Less power in world summits and international decision making until they can get their own house in order, so not any economic sanctions. Seems fair enough I think. 

The irony is that they comparatively do have their house in order when it comes to this virus. They, like other countries with strong pandemic preparedness, have been able to resume much of their usual activities. 

I do wonder what things would have been like in the US if their pandemic preparations weren't dismantled by their current government from 2017-19.