i-Ram Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 8 hours ago, reverendo de duivel said: This weekend Luke's godfather came round to give him his Birthday present. We stayed in the front garden, socially distant but from Wednesday we'd have to meet in the local park! Haven't been for a out for a drink since March, and only once into town for a meal. Have visited my parents in Derby maybe 3 times since lockdown, twice outside when it was warmer, and the once in Autumn. Can't do that now, how are things your end? Sorry to read this Rev. Especially regarding the limited visiting of your parents. Happy birthday to Luke by the way. By and large the south coast is doing well, and particularly the area I live. We are at medium risk, and in my limited experience pretty much everyone down this way is complying with mask wearing, and other social distancing rules. I went to the pub twice in the summer, in the garden, but didn’t particularly enjoy and won’t be bothering during the winter. Sher does a little more socialising in the pub/coffee shops, but she is a Rottweiler so if anyone gets within a yard of her she growls menacingly. Went to our favourite restaurant last week for a birthday meal, but that is the only time I have eaten out since March. It was ok; pretty well organised but not a great ambience. Meal was very good, but the restrictions made it a poor use of time and money. Feel really sorry for both my usual establishments of choice trying to survive. Where we differ is with parents/family. During April to June we played the game, but since then we have decided as a small, close knit family set-up it is on balance best for all concerned to see each other. My mum has been diagnosed with cancer, and since then has fractured 3 ribs in a fall (to add to 2 more sometime in the recent past!). So I am more frequently making trips to Herefordshire, and also seeing my kids over in Hove/Worthing every other week. Sher has a 3 year old grandson too who she adores. It is a risk I know, but one which I am happy to take (the family too) to keep everyone’s spirits up. My daughter and sister are paramedics if any of us need attention! Look after yourself buddy. Hope to meet up again next year sometime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 hour ago, TexasRam said: We have had city’s with restrictions since the summer, the cases haven’t don’t down. I’ll leave you to work out if they are working or not. Restrictions, etc bring down the reproduction number. There is no debate here. The issue is when the restrictions aren't enough to keep the reproduction number below 1, which happens when they are insufficient, or poorly implemented. At this point though, claiming that restrictions simply don't work is anti-vaxer level denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 hour ago, alexxxxx said: In my view it looks like they're trying to see what works and what doesn't when applying time-restricted measures. They will probably make a comparison between what happens in Wales and what happens in Nottingham to determine what to do in the rest of England. I'm sure Scotland will be looking at it too. Czech Republic looks like a cautionary tale though that you really have to eradicate the virus if you stand any chance of going back to normality. In July they thought they'd overcome it with few infection and an early lockdown - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53244688 Now they have the second highest growth rate in Europe after Belgium and are building their own nightingale hospitals - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-54639351 Its almost as though lockdowns don't really do anything, you are just hiding away from the virus hoping that a vaccine is produced in the meantime - as soon as you open back up, especially in the more easily travelled parts of the world covid will return. Maybe we should do what New Zealand do... hold people in camps indefinitely ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, TexasRam said: I don’t think anyone thinks we should do nothing. Nobody on here I don't think, but plenty of barmpot people out there genuinely do think we should do nothing, and any restrictions AT ALL are a breach of their civil liberties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I just had a quick look then He predicted 50k cases and 200+deaths per day by mid October Looks like mid-October peaked around 27k, but the trajectory is still rising. Deaths though - he was right, mid-october deaths peaked just over 200 a day, although it's dropped now as you can see, but again look at the trajectory, it keeps rising in every greater peaks. Beggars belief that there are still people who think we should just do nothing There's little point looking at the daily figures for deaths, consider the 7 day average: We can also look at the log version of this plot: The trend is fairly consistent, and sadly it seems this will get worse before it gets better. As to the original 'doubling ever 7 days' forecast as discussed, the cases have been doubling every 14 days. Not as bad as the original concern, but still bad, and honestly, worse than I thought it would be. Deaths are also doubling every 11 days, which suggests that as more cases are occurring, there may be more cases being missed. That's a different question for another time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, maxjam said: Its almost as though lockdowns don't really do anything, you are just hiding away from the virus hoping that a vaccine is produced in the meantime - as soon as you open back up, especially in the more easily travelled parts of the world covid will return. Maybe we should do what New Zealand do... hold people in camps indefinitely ? Are you seriously criticising New Zealand for isolating people who are at risk of having the virus? Equally, from a public health perspective, holding someone indefinitely if they refuse a test seems perfectly reasonable. It's not a tough ask, and there are real public health concerns. Also, you know that tweet is some conspiracy wacko stuff right? They're claiming the ongoing second wave is due to testing in the background images while the audio is being played. Weird bed to hop into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 27 minutes ago, Albert said: claiming that restrictions simply don't work is anti-vaxer level denial No it isn’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Albert said: Are you seriously criticising New Zealand for isolating people who are at risk of having the virus? Nope, where did I say that? 5 minutes ago, Albert said: Equally, from a public health perspective, holding someone indefinitely if they refuse a test seems perfectly reasonable. It's not a tough ask, and there are real public health concerns. Indefinitely. Okay then... 6 minutes ago, Albert said: Also, you know that tweet is some conspiracy wacko stuff right? They're claiming the ongoing second wave is due to testing in the background images while the audio is being played. Weird bed to hop into. Not sure what video you watched, who are the 2 people speaking in the video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 The whole thing is beyond barking now, how many billions upon billions have been spent and will need to be spent putting people out of work , wiping out people’s businesses , savings and lives , given the numbers of people who survive this virus let alone survive it without so much as a symptom wouldn’t all those billions be better spent on making the NHS fit to handle the virus and deal with it in set up hospitals dedicated solely to it given that it seems there’s a big number of cases caught in hospitals, vaccine spend versus research on treating the virus spend ?? Given that it’s the kind of virus that no vaccine has ever been found for and the noises comming out regards how long / short the antibodies last after having it so can be caught again and again? as a supposed free society in the west this cannot go on much longer it as destroying not only the whole fabric of life but also the value of living for vast swathes of people , I read and hear daily of the heartbreak of parents and grandparent trapped in lonely miserable existence forcibly isolated from their family and friends not even allowed to chose to take they’re own chances , it can’t go on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, TexasRam said: No it isn’t Excellent, thorough retort, showing the effort you put into your points. Bravo. 1 minute ago, maxjam said: Nope, where did I say that? You referred to it as putting people 'in camps', with the obvious connotations you, and the tweet you posted, are going for. 1 minute ago, maxjam said: Indefinitely. Okay then... If people refuse indefinitely, hold them indefinitely. Not a complicated point. 1 minute ago, maxjam said: Not sure what video you watched, who are the 2 people speaking in the video? ??? Are you not able to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 13 minutes ago, Albert said: Are you seriously criticising New Zealand for isolating people who are at risk of having the virus? Equally, from a public health perspective, holding someone indefinitely if they refuse a test seems perfectly reasonable. It's not a tough ask, and there are real public health concerns. Also, you know that tweet is some conspiracy wacko stuff right? They're claiming the ongoing second wave is due to testing in the background images while the audio is being played. Weird bed to hop into. My you are one dangerous mother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Archied said: The whole thing is beyond barking now, how many billions upon billions have been spent and will need to be spent putting people out of work , wiping out people’s businesses , savings and lives , given the numbers of people who survive this virus let alone survive it without so much as a symptom wouldn’t all those billions be better spent on making the NHS fit to handle the virus and deal with it in set up hospitals dedicated solely to it given that it seems there’s a big number of cases caught in hospitals, The billions would be lost as the economy is brought to its knees through its spread anyhow, as shown in the UK and elsewhere. Lockdowns are cheaper than the other consequences. As to the NHS, no amount of throwing money at the problem would make the problem easier, and you seem to be seriously downplaying the number of people who die. You're also ignoring the elephant in the room, which is we don't know the long term consequences for people who have been infected. We know it can cause organ damage, even in young, asymptomatic cases. I, for one, am not keen on rolling the dice with that unknown. 2 minutes ago, Archied said: vaccine spend versus research on treating the virus spend ?? Given that it’s the kind of virus that no vaccine has ever been found for and the noises comming out regards how long / short the antibodies last after having it so can be caught again and again? Treating viruses is always more challenges than preventing them. Antivirals are hard to develop, and usually quite harsh on the body. Prevention is a lot better than a cure both in terms of development, and long term outcomes. You'll also note that the argument for there being no vaccine for Coronaviruses doesn't help, as there are also no anti-virals. 2 minutes ago, Archied said: as a supposed free society in the west this cannot go on much longer it as destroying not only the whole fabric of life but also the value of living for vast swathes of people , I read and hear daily of the heartbreak of parents and grandparent trapped in lonely miserable existence forcibly isolated from their family and friends not even allowed to chose to take they’re own chances , it can’t go on I don't think the reality of this disease quite dawns on many, nor the consequences of letting it burn economically. No healthcare system in the World is equipped to deal with it burning out of control. Even now, as bad as it looks, no nation has had near the case load that is possible, yet many healthcare systems have been put on their knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Archied said: My you are one dangerous mother Howso? Because I advocate to save lives and economies at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Albert said: The billions would be lost as the economy is brought to its knees through its spread anyhow, as shown in the UK and elsewhere. Lockdowns are cheaper than the other consequences. As to the NHS, no amount of throwing money at the problem would make the problem easier, and you seem to be seriously downplaying the number of people who die. You're also ignoring the elephant in the room, which is we don't know the long term consequences for people who have been infected. We know it can cause organ damage, even in young, asymptomatic cases. I, for one, am not keen on rolling the dice with that unknown. Treating viruses is always more challenges than preventing them. Antivirals are hard to develop, and usually quite harsh on the body. Prevention is a lot better than a cure both in terms of development, and long term outcomes. You'll also note that the argument for there being no vaccine for Coronaviruses doesn't help, as there are also no anti-virals. I don't think the reality of this disease quite dawns on many, nor the consequences of letting it burn economically. No healthcare system in the World is equipped to deal with it burning out of control. Even now, as bad as it looks, no nation has had near the case load that is possible, yet many healthcare systems have been put on their knees. Are you one of those algorithm things ?,, you say I’m ignoring the numbers who die from it ( pick a true number) I say your ignoring the numbers that don’t , anyway nice to talk but won’t bother replying again as I’m pretty sure your a propaganda machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Albert said: You referred to it as putting people 'in camps', with the obvious connotations you, and the tweet you posted, are going for. Putting people in camps is a world away from isolating the vulnerable. 8 minutes ago, Albert said: If people refuse indefinitely, hold them indefinitely. Not a complicated point. Okay then. And to think we got upset over the fining of students here... 10 minutes ago, Albert said: ??? Are you not able to read? I don't care who the tweet is from or what they said tbh, the video of the 2 Government members is the relevant bit - smiling as they talk about locking people up in quarantine facilities indefinitely should the need arise. One of the early concerns about lockdowns was regarding Governments relinquishing powers after they had gotten used to wielding them. If continued and increasingly draconian measures aren't a concern for you then I guess theres nothing to see here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 16 minutes ago, Albert said: Excellent, thorough retort, showing the effort you put into your points. Bravo It’s a football forum not a scientific conference. I’m not going to go into detail talking to a stranger Acorss the other side of the world, I haven’t got time and can’t be bothered. I disagreed with you anti vaxer point so made that clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Archied said: Are you one of those algorithm things ?,, you say I’m ignoring the numbers who die from it ( pick a true number) I say your ignoring the numbers that don’t , anyway nice to talk but won’t bother replying again as I’m pretty sure your a propaganda machine So, you think because you disagree with me that I mustn't be real. The fact that you don't even rate yourself against what you think is a bot is telling. 1 minute ago, maxjam said: Putting people in camps is a world away from isolating the vulnerable. New Zealand aren't trying to isolate the vulnerable, they're keeping their cases at zero, as they have managed for a while, while trying to keep the rest of the country open. 1 minute ago, maxjam said: Okay then. And to think we got upset over the fining of students here... Again, I'm not sure what anyone with any level of sense would be concerned about here. Someone who is actively committing a crime gets to stay indefinitely. Imagine someone sitting in a holding cell declaring they'd stab the first person they saw when they got out. Could you imagine the uproar if they were let out because 'it would be silly to keep them here'. 1 minute ago, maxjam said: I don't care who the tweet is from or what they said tbh, the video of the 2 Government members is the relevant bit - smiling as they talk about locking people up in quarantine facilities indefinitely should the need arise. One of the early concerns about lockdowns was regarding Governments relinquishing powers after they had gotten used to wielding them. If continued and increasingly draconian measures aren't a concern for you then I guess theres nothing to see here. I wouldn't describe them as 'smiling as they talk about locking people up', but I guess you'll see what you want to there. As to this, nothing they've said or done is all that unusual, and arguably it's actually the kind of thing you've argued for in the past. You've discussed isolating the vulnerable so everyone else can go about their lives. In this case, they're isolating those who are infected, or might be infected, so the rest of their country can go about theirs. Just now, TexasRam said: It’s a football forum not a scientific conference. I’m not going to go into detail talking to a stranger Acorss the other side of the world, I haven’t got time and can’t be bothered. I disagreed with you anti vaxer point so made that clear. An interesting way of conceding the argument, but I guess when you disagree, but have no justification, it's all you're really left with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Albert said: An interesting way of conceding the argument, but I guess when you disagree, but have no justification, it's all you're really left with. Yep absolutely, bang on ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 minute ago, TexasRam said: Yep absolutely, bang on ?? Didn't expect you to accept that so readily. Fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Albert said: Didn't expect you to accept that so readily. Fair play. If it gives you more time to enjoy life outside than on here then my work is done Albert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.