Coronavirus

[Gone]

1 hour ago, djfred84 said:

Why are certain posters aloud to parrot right wing tropes next they will be on to conspiracy theories and promoting flat earthers. Was a genuine decent thread.

If that is aimed at me, you are far from the truth and If so I would like some evidence. Why is an alternate view on COVID, how it’s handled how certain people have acted right wing? 
 

is it a only a decent thread if it agrees with your view ? 

[djfred84]

8 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

If that is aimed at me, you are far from the truth and If so I would like some evidence. Why is an alternate view on COVID, how it’s handled how certain people have acted right wing? 
 

is it a only a decent thread if it agrees with your view ? 

Nope cause loads do not agree with my view. The comment attacking teachers is a right wing tropes.

 

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2 minutes ago, djfred84 said:

Nope cause loads do not agree with my view. The comment attacking teachers is a right wing tropes.

 

How is saying I believe teachers have acted not great during the crisis based on 1st hand experiences and discussions with other with anecdotal evidence etc etc right wing ? Please explain ?

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34 minutes ago, nottingram said:

The demonisation of people in this position is very confusing

Not demonising them at all, I have lots of friends in that position fair play to them. Money for nothing, but to think a lot of people (including people I know) don’t want this to end is extremely naive. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

46 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

The first 3 paragraphs are so unrelated.

First one is about all these people you know who are milking furlough. You did not respond to my point about why these slackers would be doing this when it clearly impacts their future prospects. Such behaviour seems stupid as opposed to lazy.

The next paragraph...wow. Where did the attack on teachers come from? It's pretty depressing really that you hold these views, but good that you can post them to display your ignorance. Pretty funny to see @G STAR RAM jump to your defence. When did teachers come such a hated group?

Not sure who your 3rd paragraph is aimed at. You seem to think that "Boris had forced" schools to open but clearly you must have major disagreements why he has allowed the lockdown to continue with precautions you find ridiculous. 

When they became the footsoldiers of the culture war.?

[Mostyn6]

13 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

How is saying I believe teachers have acted not great during the crisis based on 1st hand experiences and discussions with other with anecdotal evidence etc etc right wing ? Please explain ?

Acted not great? Really? Was there an alternative way to act? 

[nottingram]

3 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

Not demonising them at all, I have lots of friends in that position fair play to them. Money for nothing, but to think a lot of people (including people I know) don’t want this to end is extremely naive. 

Demonising perhaps an extreme term but quotes such as “milking payments” and “sitting on their arse doing nothing” among others create an idea of lazy workers choosing to live off the state which as we know isn’t the case at all. 

Of course some want it to continue, others will be desperate to get back to contribute and only painting one side of that is a little disingenuous. Ultimately no one will have a choice in the matter, when they are told to go back one would assume they will but until then we can hardly moan about the situation because it is down to the employer who they do and don’t choose to place on furlough

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1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said:

Acted not great? Really? Was there an alternative way to act? 

Yes be less obstructive to opening up schools to all pupils, and less obstructive to opening them up quicker. 

[Mostyn6]

Just now, TexasRam said:

Yes be less obstructive to opening up schools to all pupils, and less obstructive to opening them up quicker. 

Why should they? The narrative is still that Covid is a dangerous killer and until that changes, why would teachers put themselves in danger? 
 

You say “obstructive”, they say “cautious”. They are mainly public sector workers and the public sector is guiding them. 

[djfred84]

1 minute ago, TexasRam said:

Yes be less obstructive to opening up schools to all pupils, and less obstructive to opening them up quicker. 

You mean go against advice teachers are humans aswell some have kids of their own. My personal belief is that if the government did a decent job from the start teachers may have their fears eased.

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1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said:

Why should they? The narrative is still that Covid is a dangerous killer and until that changes, why would teachers put themselves in danger? 
 

You say “obstructive”, they say “cautious”. They are mainly public sector workers and the public sector is guiding them. 

So are Nurses, doctors, midwives etc etc etc luckily they weren’t as cautious.

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

So are Nurses, doctors, midwives etc etc etc luckily they weren’t as cautious.

Exactly. Look how many of them died or got ill. Odd choice of the word “luckily”. Doubt the dead ones feel lucky. 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, Paul71 said:

of course equally,  if not more so because of the accusations levelled in the post, does Texas know all the teachers in the country to label them all lazy bar stewards who just want to sunbathe. 

 

2 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

So this is true, is it:

'Teachers have worked tirelessly hard to get kids back to school, absolute BS. They have been sun bathing for 6 months and are gutted they have to go back'

This statement does not refer to 'some teachers' or 'teachers I know', it refers to teachers generally. It's not true. It's deliberate. It's a lie.

I know there will be those on the right who want to stick the boot into teachers but the idea that they have been 'sun-bathing for 6 months' is so hopelessly wide of the mark that even those that thrive on such tripe should baulk at it.

Yes fair comment from both of you if the comment was aimed at every single teacher.

Doubt it was though, just the ones who are looking for excuses to get out of going back to work.

Think you're both naive if you dont think there any that are in that category.

[Tamworthram]

1 hour ago, djfred84 said:

I was perfectly fine on furlough, wish it would last forever. however I was binned from my job once they stopped furlough and are now working for less than half the amount from furlough. I'd imagine there is more than just me in that boat.

Sad news buddy but, I wasn’t really referring to furlough during which you’re not meant to work, I was referring to folk who have managed to carry on working but from home instead of working from the office.

[Tyler Durden]

3 hours ago, djfred84 said:

I was perfectly fine on furlough, wish it would last forever. however I was binned from my job once they stopped furlough and are now working for less than half the amount from furlough. I'd imagine there is more than just me in that boat.

Which is one of my original points. The furlough scheme always was heralded as a job retention scheme so if an employer has taken money from the government knowing that they were going to make redundancies regardless then this is basically fraud and the government quite rightly could ask for the money back and should be doing. British Airways immediately spring to mind as an example.

[Sith Happens]

2 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Which is one of my original points. The furlough scheme always was heralded as a job retention scheme so if an employer has taken money from the government knowing that they were going to make redundancies regardless then this is basically fraud and the government quite rightly could ask for the money back and should be doing. British Airways immediately spring to mind as an example.

I think it has been a job retention scheme, what we will never know in the absence of some sort of sliding doors moment is to what effect and how successful 

I am sure many businesses put people on furlough with the hope of bringing them back , only to have to reassess later, but I wont deny there will be those who abused it.

I'm sure there are many who have had employees work while on furlough too, I know some who have/are. It's a sad reflection of some in society that something so well meaning has been abused by some..

 

[alexxxxx]

17 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

Which is one of my original points. The furlough scheme always was heralded as a job retention scheme so if an employer has taken money from the government knowing that they were going to make redundancies regardless then this is basically fraud and the government quite rightly could ask for the money back and should be doing. British Airways immediately spring to mind as an example.

Well it's not fraud if they're working within the rules. 

I'm sure for many businesses it saved them when they couldn't open or operate or when their revenue dropped through the floor. 

I doubt there were that many mass redundancies planned throughout the country prior to Covid-19 which were put on hold. 

[GboroRam]

11 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

Well it's not fraud if they're working within the rules. 

I'm sure for many businesses it saved them when they couldn't open or operate or when their revenue dropped through the floor. 

I doubt there were that many mass redundancies planned throughout the country prior to Covid-19 which were put on hold. 

Clearly there was a major problem which, credit where it's due, the government stepped in and put a scheme together to aid businesses. It was easy to take part in, quick to pay out and fairly simple to understand. There were not lots of rules and red tape. Maybe money was given away where it's not needed, but it was more important to support business than count pennies.

However if you are a human being and not a business, stuck at the wrong end with no income, Universal Credit is the polar opposite. It's not easy to sign up to, takes weeks before you get anything out of it and is an absolute minefield of rules and red tape. It's almost as if it could be simple but it's a conscious decision not to make it like that.

[Gaspode]

9 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

Clearly there was a major problem which, credit where it's due, the government stepped in and put a scheme together to aid businesses. It was easy to take part in, quick to pay out and fairly simple to understand. There were not lots of rules and red tape. Maybe money was given away where it's not needed, but it was more important to support business than count pennies.

However if you are a human being and not a business, stuck at the wrong end with no income, Universal Credit is the polar opposite. It's not easy to sign up to, takes weeks before you get anything out of it and is an absolute minefield of rules and red tape. It's almost as if it could be simple but it's a conscious decision not to make it like that.

Pretty much like most things implemented when the civil service or local government are involved - think of a nice straightforward answer to a problem and then spend months/years prevaricating, tweaking and ultimately screwing up the solution until the final system bears no resemblance to the original idea.....

[GboroRam]

10 minutes ago, Gaspode said:

Pretty much like most things implemented when the civil service or local government are involved - think of a nice straightforward answer to a problem and then spend months/years prevaricating, tweaking and ultimately screwing up the solution until the final system bears no resemblance to the original idea.....

UC has been heralded as a success by this government though. They've taken the credit for it. 

Anyway, starting to get into territory I don't want so I'll leave it at that.