DarkFruitsRam7 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I keep seeing something on social media that is a good idea. If you have an ethnic shop (e.g. Asian, Chinese, etc), try going there for supplies. Apparently they're cheaper, the shelves are less likely to be empty and you'll be helping people who might be losing out on business because of idiots/racists. I might try an Asian shop in Manchester tomorrow - there are plenty near where I live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: You're making the assumption like so many others that coronavirus is a vicious virus and it's deadly. Is it? Where's the proof? I think it might be you that's making the assumptions. Coronvirus need not be deadly in it's own right, it need only tip the balance with the elderly or those with pre-existing health conditions in order to be fatal. The fact is, it's completely irrelevant whether in itself, the virus is a killer. What actually matters is whether or not a significant percentage of those who are exposed are at a higher risk and will therefore require hospitalisation or in the worst case scenario, die. I'm really not sure what 'proof' beyond what we already know you need, but I'd feel pretty certain that your unshakeable confidence in your own prognosis would be smashed to bits if your poorly child, your mum, a close friend or anyone you cared about contracted the virus and died in a matter of days. it seems that that is what you require in order to accept that this is a serious pandemic and we all need to act together and in a responsible manner to try and limit its spread. Worst case virus spread models indicate as many as 21,000,000 people in the UK could contract the virus. I'm unsure as to what percentage of that figure would be classed as falling into the higher risk group, but I'm pretty sure that the figure would outstrip the 925,000 hospital beds in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeds Ram Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 minute ago, smiths_tavrn said: All totalitarian regimes become paranoid about losing their grip on power. Why control the Internet if they aren't worried about losing their grip on power? If they don't give diddly squat about what the rest of the world thinks, why do they roll out the red carpet for Western dignitaries? Of course micro protests don't worry them, They just go in and brutally assault people regardless. Tienanmen Square was a national embarrassment, especially in the current era when we should know better. It's a measure of retaining power in their eyes it doesn't mean they're immediately concerned about it. They still need relations internationally (they don't role out the red carpet read Cameron's autobiography on that score) but again they believe internal policies are exactly that and not up for discussion internationally. If it wasn't the corona virus in Wuhan they'd just go in and do what they wanted like they have in Xinjiang. Your argument doesn't explain the glaringly obvious.... why has it gone across the world and caused governments to enact similar measures? are they all totalitarian dictatorships, must have missed the coup in Belgium which turned it into a one party state. The truth is which you seem unable to face is that it was the corona virus. That this virus is spreading quickly and for a lot of people it's not nothing if they catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 These last couple of pages have been wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, Uptherams said: Unfortunately the term is open to interpretation and massive manipulation of statistics. Put it this way, someone who is obese has underlying health conditions. Obese is fast becoming average in a country like this. We all do it, picture that guy that weighs 30 stone as the poster child for obesity when the reality is different. Is the average obese person about to drop dead suddenly or die in the next 5 years....nope. This is what Germany have been doing, manipulating the statistics. I would guess at “pre-existing conditions” being defined somewhere. Perhaps just these 5 conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrisoner Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: You've got kids up and down the country being counselled over climate change. Rightly so. It’s very real. Get a grip man or are you one of these “it won’t affect me in 15 years when I’m dead” lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: I would guess at “pre-existing conditions” being defined somewhere. Perhaps just these 5 conditions? What i mean is that someone can have a pre-existing condition, but be super fit and healthy and barely qualify as having this disease .Compared to someone else at the opposite end of the spectrum and yet both get labelled as having a pre-existing condition. The narrative this is creating is... I'll be fine, these people who are dying were already seriously ill. Off the top of my head, 12% of people in the UK have Asthma and 7% Diabetes. Obviously you can't just automatically combine these figures as a person can have both. But I'd be willing to bet over half the adult population qualifies as having a pre-existing condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: A cold could do that. Of course it could but a cold, is significantly less likely to and that is the exact point I and others have made and which you've simply ignored repeatedly. Anyway, before I say something I should not, I'll leave you to it. I sincerely hope that this mere trifle you've portrayed does not afflict you or yours, but even so, you may like to consider that there are others on here who might not be so lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 54 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: Oh really. And what was wrong about it? Almost your entire post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: But this is the whole point Paul. People are constantly being unnecessarily terrified and it's wrong. E.g. You've got kids up and down the country being counselled over climate change. Maybe, but the governments new strategy is being leaked and while no one will come out and officially confirm this, it's being reported over 65's will not be put on ventilators and people in care homes won't be moved to hospitals. The point being, we can not treat everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Corinavirus is straight out of the Charles Darwin playbook, a typical case of survival of the fittest. Those that are young, fit and healthy have a good chance of overcoming it, and those who are old and have existing medical conditions don't. That's how nature has worked over millions of years. Nothing new here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 27 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: A cold could do that. You ignored what it is said the virus does, a cold does not do this! Quote "The virus is triggering an imbalance in the immune response, there's too much inflammation, how it is doing this we don't know," said Dr Nathalie MacDermott, from King's College London. ... It can lead to septic shock when the blood pressure drops to dangerously low levels and organs stop working properly or fail completely. Acute respiratory distress syndrome caused by widespread inflammation in the lungs stops the body getting enough oxygen it needs to survive. It can stop the kidneys from cleaning the blood and damage the lining of your intestines. "The virus sets up such a huge degree of inflammation that you succumb... it becomes multi-organ failure," Dr Bharat Pankhania said Bit more than a bad cold. Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: Oh no. I'm one of those who believes it's a pile of crap. I think on the climate you got few years to go to see if your views are correct. May they are, may be not. On the virus lets wait another week or 2 and see where we are at. Italy with a pretty decent health service are so overwhelmed that they have got patients in emergency tents put up in hospital car parks. They are not camping. Italy is in lockdown, France is heading that way. I was in London this week and when you walk around Covent garden on a Friday night at 9pm, pubs are very quiet, there isn't a soul to be seen, something isn't quite right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: Excellent point but coronavirus isn't the super virus that everyone thinks it is. I ain't scared of Mr Corona, Miss Corona or whatever personal pronoun that Corona wishes to be called by. Bring it on pal I say because my immune system is going to give you a good kicking. Is it? I don't know. I'll just have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, smiths_tavrn said: One day there very well might be a killer virus, something equivalent to the Spanish Flu of 1918 but it isn't coronavirus. Tell that to the French. Over 50% of people in ICU are under 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted March 14, 2020 Author Share Posted March 14, 2020 1 hour ago, smiths_tavrn said: How many of the people in the UK who have died had underlying health issues? Yet every single time coronavirus is the culprit. The death total in the UK doubled today. While most of them had underlying health issues, one of today's fatalities had no underlying health issues. What they all had in common was that they all tested positive for the coronavirus. The virus attacks the immune system, so anyone who already as health issues will be in greater danger of dying than the young and healthy. No, lets not get to concerned with the deaths of a few people who'd have died anyway, due to their existing health problems. Pity there's no vaccine for the coronavirus, unlike the flu vaccine which is administered to thousands each year but still manages to kill hundreds. So until we find a better way of containing the coronavirus, than washing our hands. Then yes we need to take the spread of the coronavirus very seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Think we need a poll on which mod shuts down the forum first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Hughes Hair Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 It may be a revelation to some on here but comorbidity is like a thing that's been widely accepted by the medical profession and society for many years now. In layperson's terms it's where a patient dies and has more than one disease. Not all those diseases are equal though and the one that led to death is known as the primary condition. I haven't seen the metadata behind every death attributed to Covid-19 but I'm fairly confident that Covid-19 will be the primary condition in the vast majority of these cases. The question I can't answer is if I should reserve my disdain for those who are stockpiling toilet roll or social media experts who are being willfully stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said: I have French news on TV and it is a bit like a time machine, they are about a week ahead of us and about aweek behind Italy. All that is happening here now happened there a few days ago and if it follows same pattern it is about to hit the fan. France has closed all schools, college and Unis a few days after Italy. From tonight only essential shops such as food stores, pharmacy, petrol stations and banks can remain open. Bars, Restaurants and cinemas will have to close. Numbers have trebled to 4500 ish in the past 3 days. Italy meanwhile has passed 21000 and hospital patients are in tents in car parks as they cant cope. I would like to think that government here know what they are doing but It will take some convincing... Here in Spain we're ahead of France and behind Italy. We've just been officially put on "State of Alarm", whereby basically the Government is in complete control. They can at any time shut off any town or city, preventing entry or exit. They can requisite factories or ware houses. All bars and restaurants are closed. The only places allowed to open are shops selling necessities (food, toiletries etc), pharmacies, petrol stations and "estancos" (the only shops legally allowed to sell cigarettes). I've heard this evening that hair dressers and dry cleaners are also allowed to open, although I can't personally see any particular need for these. All mass gatherings are banned. My wife is a nurse and they have been warned that at any time all holidays can be cancelled, they can be called in to work at any time and in any department, and with 70 hours per week rest time . They can also be sent with immediate effect to any region. The main fear here, which there are rumours that it is already the case in Italy, is that hospitals in general and incubators in particular become saturated, and the doctors have to decide who lives and who dies. Basically those that have a better chance of recovery will be given preference over for example over 70s. Fortunately I'm "only" 56, but I would prefer not to be in such a position. Apparently it's only a small percentage who get to the stage where they need incubation, and normally there are underlying problems. However we have heard that there is an even smaller percentage of apparently healthy young people going in to comas and needing artificial breathing assistance. If we're lucky we will have to get through a mild to strong flu, with figures of one in three being infected being bandied around. I don't know whether the UK approach is the best, I can certainly see the idea of a more drawn out epidemic being preferable as it doesn't overload the hospitals. I most certainly do think however that this virus shouldn't been taken flippantly. I hope to God (always considered myself to be agnostic, but in moments like this I do find myself hoping that there is a God) that it will be nothing more than a normal flu outbreak, but I just have a feeling that it isn't. Look after yourselves everyone, and if you're a high risk then take extra precautions. Hopefully we can all remain in touch, it will be a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 The duck is going on in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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