Coronavirus

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Spot on. I have people on furlough and they will stay that way until we can bring them back safely and when work demands. We have plans in place for social distancing and home working.. PPE is ready for everyone and luckily, only one person uses public transport and I will sort something out for him. 
I am sure most company have been doing similar, it all just needs to be managed properly. Couple of details I need to know about re the govt guidelines but I am pretty sure there won’t be any hidden mines in there.. Just got to roll with the punches for a bit. 

I dont remember Boris say anything about punches? Am I allowed to punch my colleagues now or not?

[rammieib]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

All valid points, but if my hypothetical employer were to take me off furlough tomorrow as they have just interpreted the Prime Minister’s comments as such (I have no idea on the notice etc involved so that may be inaccurate) I’d have little choice but to go back to continue earning. If I went back and found social distancing wasn’t in place to my satisfaction it wouldn’t be much consolation that I could report it to the Health and Safety standards, even more so if my only route to work was using public transport. 

I absolutely agree with a very gradual easing of the lockdown - think it is definitely the way to go. I absolutely do not agree with statements at 7pm on a Sunday evening that in the eyes of some could be open to interpretation. 

I think you would have every right to refuse if Health and Safety wasn’t provided. (Let’s wrap Social distancing up with that). Sure there will be plenty of cases come out but I for one wouldn’t want to work for an employer who wasn’t providing the correct steps. They would get in severe trouble.

Fair enough your take on the speech left ambiguity for you - I have no issue with that and all opinions are perfectly valid. For me though, I think he (nearly) did as much as he could on a 10/15 minute slot.

Visiting grandparents I would have liked to have known (but then those on 12-week isolation would have piped up) and maybe some specific knowledge on the R-rate and the targets for this.

Maybe it would be nice for them to issue the R-rates around the UK (well Sturgeon will have her own lol) in the daily briefings.

[Angry Ram]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

I dont remember Boris say anything about punches? Am I allowed to punch my colleagues now or not?

Use common sense.. If he’s a big fecker, probably not.. Little geezer, fill yer boots.

[Archied]

33 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why what was hard to understand about it?

Well my wife for instance is a childminder who eventually managed to untangle the guff from the first point of lockdown that they could look after children of KEY workers ( where’s that phrase gone) , now people who can’t work from home and can go to work should go to work , do they have child care to go to work ? can people like my wife look after any workers children ? 
sorry mate but the further down the road we get with this the more shambolic and ambiguous the leadership has become and I can 100% assure you my view on this is NOT party political 

[rammieib]

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

Well my wife for instance is a childminder who eventually managed to untangle the guff from the first point of lockdown that they could look after children of KEY workers ( where’s that phrase gone) , now people who can’t work from home and can go to work should go to work , do they have child care to go to work ? can people like my wife look after any workers children ? 
sorry mate but the further down the road we get with this the more shambolic and ambiguous the leadership has become and I can 100% assure you my view on this is NOT party political 

But everything is tangled up and connected and untangling this will always lead to challenges.

I think we all agree we can’t have an open/closed switch but that seems to be what some people are looking for?

Its not easy at all, but a slow route of opening is clearly what we need.

What would your recommendation have been to slowly open up especially with regards to childminding?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Archied said:

Well my wife for instance is a childminder who eventually managed to untangle the guff from the first point of lockdown that they could look after children of KEY workers ( where’s that phrase gone) , now people who can’t work from home and can go to work should go to work , do they have child care to go to work ? can people like my wife look after any workers children ? 
sorry mate but the further down the road we get with this the more shambolic and ambiguous the leadership has become and I can 100% assure you my view on this is NOT party political 

Well if schools arent re-opening I think it would be logical to assume that nurseries and childminders would follow the same path as schools.

[Andicis]

I don't know why a big deal was made about this speech when we effectively learned nothing new and nothing changed.

[GB SPORTS]

8 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I think you would have every right to refuse if Health and Safety wasn’t provided. (Let’s wrap Social distancing up with that). Sure there will be plenty of cases come out but I for one wouldn’t want to work for an employer who wasn’t providing the correct steps. They would get in severe trouble.

Fair enough your take on the speech left ambiguity for you - I have no issue with that and all opinions are perfectly valid. For me though, I think he (nearly) did as much as he could on a 10/15 minute slot.

Visiting grandparents I would have liked to have known (but then those on 12-week isolation would have piped up) and maybe some specific knowledge on the R-rate and the targets for this.

Maybe it would be nice for them to issue the R-rates around the UK (well Sturgeon will have her own lol) in the daily briefings.

I have a read somewhere that they are working on the stat modelling for this i think a big part of this will be the app that they are rolling out.

[Rev]

10 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Use common sense.. If he’s a big fecker, probably not.. Little geezer, fill yer boots.

Little geezers are fast though.

Jack Reacher always preferred to fight a big geezer than a nippy one, and if it's good enough for him.

[nottingram]

8 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I think you would have every right to refuse if Health and Safety wasn’t provided. (Let’s wrap Social distancing up with that). Sure there will be plenty of cases come out but I for one wouldn’t want to work for an employer who wasn’t providing the correct steps. They would get in severe trouble.

Fair enough your take on the speech left ambiguity for you - I have no issue with that and all opinions are perfectly valid. For me though, I think he (nearly) did as much as he could on a 10/15 minute slot.

Visiting grandparents I would have liked to have known (but then those on 12-week isolation would have piped up) and maybe some specific knowledge on the R-rate and the targets for this.

Maybe it would be nice for them to issue the R-rates around the UK (well Sturgeon will have her own lol) in the daily briefings.

That would be fine but not much use if I’ve already got to work and contracted the virus.

I’m not trying to be an argumentative rick but I can just foresee a few situations where chancer bosses will try their luck which they may now feel empowered to do, slightly more so than before.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that some of the new guidelines may rely a little more on common sense - the trouble with common sense is that the first half of its name is a complete lie. Usually a lack of common sense isn’t too much of a problem as it would only detrimentally affect number one, but we aren’t in those times currently. 

[rammieib]

1 minute ago, SIXTEEN AGAIN said:

I have a read somewhere that they are working on the stat modelling for this i think a big part of this will be the app that they are rolling out.

Yep - you’d like to think it would be the same formula in every country but the more you think about it, the more it can’t be due to testing numbers, population density’s, access to specific data sets, ages, demographics etc

[Mckram]

I think the new guidelines are either clear or not clear depending on your life, it’s not one or the other.

I personally am in unclear category because of my line of work and the fact I have around 60 staff to consider. If I worked by myself and could do it from home then I can understand how it’s clear.

I don’t understand how for example car sales will work here, they can’t work from home so will go back in...but there will be no customers as people should be at home. Can staff in industries like that be continued to be furloughed until everything is 100% back up and running? 

[rammieib]

1 minute ago, nottingram said:

That would be fine but not much use if I’ve already got to work and contracted the virus.

I’m not trying to be an argumentative rick but I can just foresee a few situations where chancer bosses will try their luck which they may now feel empowered to do, slightly more so than before.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that some of the new guidelines may rely a little more on common sense - the trouble with common sense is that the first half of its name is a complete lie. Usually a lack of common sense isn’t too much of a problem as it would only detrimentally affect number one, but we aren’t in those times currently. 

But we can’t stay closed forever? (Unless you’re Villa, Brighton or Watford and have a threat of relegation lol).

In a perfect world we would have an instant test which you could take regularly but such technology obviously doesn’t exist.

Thankfully 98% of us can apply that common sense word and hopefully the 2% who fail will not ruin it for the rest of us.

I have a reception class age daughter - I personally have no issue sending her to school on the 1st June. I’ll check her temperature each day and take it from there. The first two years of primary school children were obviously selected as I’m sure the Gov had enough evidence to suggest they are very low risk in spreading this disease around.

[rammieib]

3 minutes ago, Mckram said:

I think the new guidelines are either clear or not clear depending on your life, it’s not one or the other.

I personally am in unclear category because of my line of work and the fact I have around 60 staff to consider. If I worked by myself and could do it from home then I can understand how it’s clear.

I don’t understand how for example car sales will work here, they can’t work from home so will go back in...but there will be no customers as people should be at home. Can staff in industries like that be continued to be furloughed until everything is 100% back up and running? 

Well yes, until the end of June as it stands. You’ll be able to supply the evidence that there was no work for them when you make the claim.

The Government didn’t permit people to go out for social trips yet, so that would ban car buying still. 

Devil on the detail tomorrow though.

[Angry Ram]

5 minutes ago, nottingram said:

That would be fine but not much use if I’ve already got to work and contracted the virus.

I’m not trying to be an argumentative rick but I can just foresee a few situations where chancer bosses will try their luck which they may now feel empowered to do, slightly more so than before.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that some of the new guidelines may rely a little more on common sense - the trouble with common sense is that the first half of its name is a complete lie. Usually a lack of common sense isn’t too much of a problem as it would only detrimentally affect number one, but we aren’t in those times currently. 

There will be chancers out there but others will have to deal with those. Nothings perfect you just have to have hope that most are responsible employers. 

[ramsbottom]

Remember folks...

[Archied]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well if schools arent re-opening I think it would be logical to assume that nurseries and childminders would follow the same path as schools.

Nothing logical at all , childcare for those who need it to return to work ? and IF clear guidance emerges for childminders how about those that are uncomfortable to send they’re children to a setting that mixes with children from other households ? do they risk sack if not returning to work rather than risk virus? 

[RoyMac5]

Quote

Rajdeep Sandhu

Westminster Correspondent

This encouragement to get people back into work in manufacturing and construction - that's an interesting change in mindset from the UK government. That's quite different from the tone of Nicola Sturgeon, which is much more cautious.

But I think there will still be confusion for people living in England because part of that message is stay at home as much as you can. Now how does that marry with also having unlimited exercise if you want to and have those drives just for fun?

Quote

People are being told to go back to work without clear safety guidance, Labour leader Keir Starmer says.

 

[uttoxram75]

51 minutes ago, nottingram said:

If you can’t work at home, go to work if it’s safe to do so.

Who is it that is to decide that? Would it be me or would it be my boss, as I imagine in plenty of instances the level of safety that those two people were comfortable with in the workplace would be very different? Has my boss been briefed on that or am I going to get a text this evening telling me I’m expected back at work tomorrow? How am I going to get to work when I have to use public transport? What position am I in if I am made to go to work but upon getting there don’t feel safe?

All would be very valid concerns if I were in that position. Luckily I’m not, my employer and my boss wouldn’t allow it - but all of these questions were less pertinent before the statement as after.

Section 44 of the Employment rights Act 1996 is worth discussing with your boss if you have any issues.

Section 44. provides employees with the means to contest the adequacy and/or suitability of safety arrangements without fear of recriminations (e.g. getting sacked or transferred) or suffering detriment (e.g. loss of wages).

Section 44. provides employees with the ‘right’ to withdraw from and to refuse to return to a workplace that is unsafe. Employees are entitled to remain away from the workplace (e.g. stay at home) if – in their opinion – the prevailing circumstances represent a real risk of serious and imminent danger which they could not be expected to avert.

Section 44. entitles employees to claim for ‘Constructive Dismissal’ and (unlimited) compensation in the event that an employer fails to maintain safe working conditions.

Section 44. means employees don’t have to wait until they (or someone else) suffer injury before they can take action to get suitably safe working conditions.

Section 44. leaves employees with no excuse whatsoever for tolerating unsafe working conditions and acts as a deterrent against an employer either deliberately or carelessly devoting inadequate resources to the protection of safety in their workplace.

Section 44. cautions employees against taking risks

Section 44. clarifies the circumstances in which an employee should take “appropriate action” to withdraw/remove themselves from danger.

See Section 44.1(d) and Section 44.1(e) below:

(d) in circumstances of danger which the employee reasonably believed to be serious and imminent and which he could not reasonably have been expected to avert, he left (or proposed to leave) or (while the danger persisted) refused to return to his place of work or any dangerous part of his place of work, or

(e) in circumstances of danger which the employee reasonably believed to be serious and imminent, he took (or proposed to take) appropriate steps to protect himself or other persons from the danger.

© Crown copyright 2002 – 2008

Section 44. clarifies that it is the employee’s opinion that counts

Section 44.2 makes it clear that it’s what the individual employee taking the action believes that counts –

Section 44.2 For the purposes of subsection (1)(e) whether steps which an employee took (or proposed to take) were appropriate is to be judged by reference to all the circumstances including, in particular, his knowledge and the facilities and advice available to him at the time.

© Crown copyright 2002 – 2008

 

[Sith Happens]

4 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

Remember folks...

I see despite @David earlier post some people can't help posting purely for cheap pathetic political point scoring. there has been some reasonable debate in here since, sadly not everyone is capable.