Coronavirus

[RamNut]

Why this sudden agitation to end the lockdown?

the numbers are still bad. We don’t need to agonise over the detail of whether the information meets our unrealistic demand for daily accuracy. We can see the scale of the deaths in hospitals and we can see the general trend. We know that increased social mobility will create waves of further infection, and undo any gains we have made. 

sit tight and be sensible. Police be sensible. Stop this silly need to self-promote and twitterize everything. 
meanwhile let’s have some science.

Is it the virus which is directly killing people or the acute over stimulation of the immune system?
Can we find a vaccine to prevent infection, or a treatment to prevent the over reaction of the immune response?

Unless we get some solutions this thing will continue to kill.
The bloke at work who had the disease has been taken out of an induced coma. Maybe he will be counted as a survivor.
One of those confirmed cases that didn’t result in a death. ooh look improved stats! Let’s end the lockdown.

However it now looks as if the lack of oxygen has left him severely brain damaged and the outlook is bleak. 


 

[rammieib]

@ramit What you’re saying there (Iceland?) is exactly what will happen in all Western countries. Any kind of release and we will go back to how it was on that first weekend in the UK of the shutdown. Hundreds of thousands out and about like nothing has happened.

The Government knows this but at the same time they know they need an economy moving somehow. It’s such a difficult decision. Either way lives are lost in the short and long term.

Some of the Government Ministers right now are going to be haunted by this for years to come. There are no right or wrong answers and indirectly every decision will have consequences. Yet the vast majority of people can’t see this and tw@tty journalists just want to catch them out all the time.

 

[G STAR RAM]

6 hours ago, RamNut said:

Why this sudden agitation to end the lockdown?

the numbers are still bad. We don’t need to agonise over the detail of whether the information meets our unrealistic demand for daily accuracy. We can see the scale of the deaths in hospitals and we can see the general trend. We know that increased social mobility will create waves of further infection, and undo any gains we have made. 

sit tight and be sensible. Police be sensible. Stop this silly need to self-promote and twitterize everything. 
meanwhile let’s have some science.

Is it the virus which is directly killing people or the acute over stimulation of the immune system?
Can we find a vaccine to prevent infection, or a treatment to prevent the over reaction of the immune response?

Unless we get some solutions this thing will continue to kill.
The bloke at work who had the disease has been taken out of an induced coma. Maybe he will be counted as a survivor.
One of those confirmed cases that didn’t result in a death. ooh look improved stats! Let’s end the lockdown.

However it now looks as if the lack of oxygen has left him severely brain damaged and the outlook is bleak. 

I'm not calling for an end to lockdown but I'm a bit confused over why it needs to be extended another 3 weeks.

Incubation period 2 weeks, 1 week for symptoms to start showing, 1 week to death.

Obviously rough estimates.

Most people have been in lockdown for a month now. Who is spreading the virus?

[Archied]

6 hours ago, RamNut said:

Why this sudden agitation to end the lockdown?

the numbers are still bad. We don’t need to agonise over the detail of whether the information meets our unrealistic demand for daily accuracy. We can see the scale of the deaths in hospitals and we can see the general trend. We know that increased social mobility will create waves of further infection, and undo any gains we have made. 

sit tight and be sensible. Police be sensible. Stop this silly need to self-promote and twitterize everything. 
meanwhile let’s have some science.

Is it the virus which is directly killing people or the acute over stimulation of the immune system?
Can we find a vaccine to prevent infection, or a treatment to prevent the over reaction of the immune response?

Unless we get some solutions this thing will continue to kill.
The bloke at work who had the disease has been taken out of an induced coma. Maybe he will be counted as a survivor.
One of those confirmed cases that didn’t result in a death. ooh look improved stats! Let’s end the lockdown.

However it now looks as if the lack of oxygen has left him severely brain damaged and the outlook is bleak. 


 

No sudden agitation to end lock down , there is very much a case for far more consistent and accurate figures though 

[Sith Happens]

18 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not calling for an end to lockdown but I'm a bit confused over why it needs to be extended another 3 weeks.

Incubation period 2 weeks, 1 week for symptoms to start showing, 1 week to death.

Obviously rough estimates.

Most people have been in lockdown for a month now. Who is spreading the virus?

not going to help when utter morons crowd together in London to applaud the NHS.

it's a good question but I guess just look at Italy,  Spain etc , been in lockdown longer with more drastic measures and still got lots of new infections.

 

[Norman]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'm not calling for an end to lockdown but I'm a bit confused over why it needs to be extended another 3 weeks.

Incubation period 2 weeks, 1 week for symptoms to start showing, 1 week to death.

Obviously rough estimates.

Most people have been in lockdown for a month now. Who is spreading the virus?

There must be millions of us still working, surely. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

not going to help when utter morons crowd together in London to applaud the NHS.

it's a good question but I guess just look at Italy,  Spain etc , been in lockdown longer with more drastic measures and still got lots of new infections.

The Spain one is very weird.

On complete lockdown for 6 weeks? Yet still getting new infections?

Just doesnt really tally with what we are being told about the virus, unless I am missing something (which I obviously am ?)

[Sith Happens]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

The Spain one is very weird.

On complete lockdown for 6 weeks? Yet still getting new infections?

Just doesnt really tally with what we are being told about the virus, unless I am missing something (which I obviously am ?)

I am sure we all are. As @Norman states millions are surely still working, I still speak to people who think that only essential work is allowed if you have to travel, but its actually only if its essential for you to travel to your job, i.e. you cant work from home. This will be lots of people, my wife included, she has been able to do some work from home but its just not feasible to do all.

Add to that those idiots who think the rules don't apply to them, we know its a small number relatively speaking but in a country of 70 million that small number mounts up.

I am sure we all have our own examples of people we know who don't follow the rules, I know of several examples of people who just don't want to follow the rules, or choose to bend them to a degree they think is reasonable.

I am sure despite lockdown in spain and italy people are somehow managing to circumnavigate the rules too.

I guess it boils down to the fact none of us are experts, especially those of us who post on here, the experts are the ones making the difficult decisions, or at least advising the government what those decisions might be. 

[Archied]

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The Spain one is very weird.

On complete lockdown for 6 weeks? Yet still getting new infections?

Just doesnt really tally with what we are being told about the virus, unless I am missing something (which I obviously am ?)

 Have they got 5g in Spain ? 

[Comrade 86]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The Spain one is very weird.

On complete lockdown for 6 weeks? Yet still getting new infections?

Just doesnt really tally with what we are being told about the virus, unless I am missing something (which I obviously am ?)

I'm not sure there's too much that's 'weird' about it to be fair. I think it merely confirms what was originally feared, that being that this virus is very easily transmitted and contracted which further strengthens the argument for extending the lockdown. Certainly, with the latest daily death count just shy of 900 people and this before care home figures are taken into account, it hardly seems to be the right time for any slackening of efforts to control the spread.

As for who is spreading the virus, that's pretty obvious I would have thought. A small number of folk who are still not taking onboard the gravity of the situation with a far higher number of people who are either care / NHS workers or those others who are deemed essential workers, the latter groups through no fault of their own I should add. When all other possible answers are proven wrong, the one that remains is most often correct, after all. 

[G STAR RAM]

25 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I'm not sure there's too much that's 'weird' about it to be fair. I think it merely confirms what was originally feared, that being that this virus is very easily transmitted and contracted which further strengthens the argument for extending the lockdown. Certainly, with the latest daily death count just shy of 900 people and this before care home figures are taken into account, it hardly seems to be the right time for any slackening of efforts to control the spread.

As for who is spreading the virus, that's pretty obvious I would have thought. A small number of folk who are still not taking onboard the gravity of the situation with a far higher number of people who are either care / NHS workers or those others who are deemed essential workers, the latter groups through no fault of their own I should add. When all other possible answers are proven wrong, the one that remains is most often correct, after all. 

But Spain have been on complete lockdown for 6 weeks and still getting new cases?

[Comrade 86]

23 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But Spain have been on complete lockdown for 6 weeks and still getting new cases?

I think I addressed the new cases question in my first post. In any case, I guess the difference here is that I think that's a reason to maintain lockdown, you clearly don't though it's not clear to me why o be honest.

Are you saying there'd only be as many new cases or less if we gave up on lockdown and if so, on what basis are you making that claim?

[richinspain]

32 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

But Spain have been on complete lockdown for 6 weeks and still getting new cases?

We are far from on complete lockdown. At any moment you can look out of the window and see people in the street. Up until last Monday only essential work was allowed, still a fairly large number when "essential" can be applied to so many jobs (a friend has a family business making aluminium windows, they are still working because they have orders pending for Amazon), plus we can go to the shops or walk a dog. The dog walkers probably aren't so at risk, but every time I've been shopping there are always people around me. I try to only touch the actual product that I am going to buy (whilst wearing gloves and a mask), but I have no idea who has touched it before me (shopper or shop worker). There are hundreds of ways a person can get contaminated even though they are on "lockdown".

As of last Monday jobs considered less essential (builders etc) were allowed to work again. As of the 24th children will be allowed out, I'm not sure under what restrictions, but again increasing exposure. I suppose it's a small way of increasing exposure but without sinking the hospitals.

[Eddie]

9 minutes ago, richinspain said:

We are far from on complete lockdown. At any moment you can look out of the window and see people in the street. Up until last Monday only essential work was allowed, still a fairly large number when "essential" can be applied to so many jobs (a friend has a family business making aluminium windows, they are still working because they have orders pending for Amazon), plus we can go to the shops or walk a dog. The dog walkers probably aren't so at risk, but every time I've been shopping there are always people around me. I try to only touch the actual product that I am going to buy (whilst wearing gloves and a mask), but I have no idea who has touched it before me (shopper or shop worker). There are hundreds of ways a person can get contaminated even though they are on "lockdown".

As of last Monday jobs considered less essential (builders etc) were allowed to work again. As of the 24th children will be allowed out, I'm not sure under what restrictions, but again increasing exposure. I suppose it's a small way of increasing exposure but without sinking the hospitals.

That's been the key thing all along. The virus won't be eliminated, and there won't be a 'miracle cure' either - it's all about managing the crisis so that the health services are not overwhelmed. Pandora's Box is open, and it's going to be a long time before the lid closes again.

[angieram]

Last week we had a major water leak - essential workers from Severn Trent fixed it within hours.

Last night we lost electricity- only known when we were awoken at 4 am to loud drilling noises! The team are back this morning trying to sort it out. Four of them peering down a hole they've dug outside next door. Not their fault but no social distancing at all.

They've also knocked at every door on street as the only way to know who has and who hasn't got electricity.

These people are keeping the basics running but are at risk themselves.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I think I addressed the new cases question in my first post. In any case, I guess the difference here is that I think that's a reason to maintain lockdown, you clearly don't though it's not clear to me why o be honest.

Are you saying there'd only be as many new cases or less if we gave up on lockdown and if so, on what basis are you making that claim?

No, I'm not saying we dont need to extend lockdown, decisions like that are best left to the experts.

Just trying to get my head around why there are still so many new cases.

[G STAR RAM]

Another thing I'm struggling to understand...

Germany getting heaped with praise for their testing (and rightly so) but they have had more confirmed cases than us (I know we only test in hospitals) but only a third of our deaths?

Why is there mortality rate so much lower? Is it just because they are testing a wider range of people as opposed to just the people in hospital?

[TramRam]

48 minutes ago, angieram said:

Last week we had a major water leak - essential workers from Severn Trent fixed it within hours.

Last night we lost electricity- only known when we were awoken at 4 am to loud drilling noises! The team are back this morning trying to sort it out. Four of them peering down a hole they've dug outside next door. Not their fault but no social distancing at all.

They've also knocked at every door on street as the only way to know who has and who hasn't got electricity.

These people are keeping the basics running but are at risk themselves.

I went for my Government authorised walk at 8-30 this Morning, 6 supermarket workers came out of the building and went into a smoking undercover area, Then 4 loading a Delivery van with 2 supplying the baskets full of goods, I was the only one who was social distancing ☺️

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why...

Don't you think if the answers were so easy to find then we'd all know by now?

[Comrade 86]

10 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Another thing I'm struggling to understand...

Germany getting heaped with praise for their testing (and rightly so) but they have had more confirmed cases than us (I know we only test in hospitals) but only a third of our deaths?

Why is there mortality rate so much lower? Is it just because they are testing a wider range of people as opposed to just the people in hospital?

Test, identify, quarantine. They adopted a logical process with none of this herd immunity lark and went flat out to implement it. That'd be my guess.