The Politics Thread 2020

[sonofmidnight]

I know that and if the slogan was as you put it I would be fine with it. Perhaps I'm being pedantic!!

[Anon]

4 hours ago, FindernRam said:

A knee on the neck? Pepper spray? Taser?

As usual there is so much emotion (understandably) but so many questions unanswered?

A man is "asleep" in a drive through restaurant. How do you fall asleep in a moving queue? Police are called, maybe assume he is drunk or drugged or both. Even sober, but just tired, you have to wonder about fitness to drive.

If I wake up in the car, sober, when someone taps on the window ( it has happened in a beach car park), why would they want to arrest me? Even a biased officer must have some grounds, even in Atlanta

Why then fight 2 trained armed men?

The fact he then got away suggests they were not using overwhelming force at that time.

If I'm sober/innocent why run at all when my car is sitting there to say who I am and probably where to find me later.

Stealing and pointing the Taser was just stupid.

BUT having failed to arrest him the officers had his car-see earlier comment! They could have let him run, but maybe in the dark a taser looks like a gun ,and you couldn't let that go.  We don't see the final seconds, presumably there is bodycam footage. Strangely the officer has been sacked yet not charged with anything. This seems inconsistent. It would appear he broke police regulations but not the law! Welcome to Georgia!

Not in any way condoning/condemning  the officer, or the victim, death as a result of a traffic "offence" is terrible, but in an incident like this context is everything and there is so much we don't know.

There is bodycam footage of the entire attempted arrest. I would post it, but it's pretty easy to find and it's probably not appropriate to post here since it shows a fatal shooting.

There is no case to answer. If you resist arrest, then attack officers, then grab an officer's weapon, then fire that weapon at the officer you're going to get shot. If this isn't justified use of force you might as well just tell cops the truth and put them against a wall for the firing squad.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Raging? OK. 

I presume you must be raging that people are attacking the right wingers waving their right arms about? Didn't really think you were, but maybe my idea of raging is wrong. 

[Archied]

Just watched the body cam footage ,it’s so bloody sad a person dies in such an unnecessary escalation, I reall don’t blame this case on racism I blame American society where people and police are armed to the bloody teeth ,it’s no way to live

[Sith Happens]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-53040827

Why are the faces blurred out in the images? Not only have awful things happened, am I to believe all of these young people attending are living independently from their parents? They must be otherwise their parents would not have allowed them to attend surely.

Even if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic the amount of rubbish is disgusting. Appalling selfish attitude that could cost countless lives through the spread of Covid 19. Morons.

[B4ev6is]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

There is bodycam footage of the entire attempted arrest. I would post it, but it's pretty easy to find and it's probably not appropriate to post here since it shows a fatal shooting.

There is no case to answer. If you resist arrest, then attack officers, then grab an officer's weapon, then fire that weapon at the officer you're going to get shot. If this isn't justified use of force you might as well just tell cops the truth and put them against a wall for the firing squad.

No they have to give a chance put weapion down first a chance give only time allowed to fire there gun if makes a swing at them with hos weapion or try to hurt others members of public then they can shoot that person.

[Anon]

9 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

No they have to give a chance put weapion down first a chance give only time allowed to fire there gun if makes a swing at them with hos weapion or try to hurt others members of public then they can shoot that person.

Brooks takes a tazer off one of the officers. Brooks initially raises that weapon towards the officer after disarming him. The 2nd officer fires his tazer. Brooks then flees and is pursued. Brooks turns, raises the weapon again and fires. Only then is he shot.

[MaltRam]

20 hours ago, Eddie said:

 

The whataboutism is strong with this pair, Obi-Wan

Cobblers.

[MaltRam]

Latest Sam Harris podcast is a very informative and interesting listen. 2 hours, but good.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Dappled Ram said:

To be honest I'm not a huge fan of the slogan BLM. I would much rather it be ALM. All lives matter. All people have the right to be treated fairly and equally. There should be no discrimination against anyone regardless of whatever race they are. I just find the slogan Black lives matter diversive not unifying.

All lives won't matter until black lives matter too. While there are people that think this is a laughing matter. the struggle will continue. 

[jono]

9 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

I agree with you 2 wrongs don't make a righ when it comes to trouble. The positive to take from comparing the 2 protests is that one is attended by 1000s and the other barely a 1000.

I don’t see any real positives .. 1000 right wing scum turned up for a fight and out of the tens of thousands of peaceful protesters there were likely 1000 left wing scum. 

in the middle of a pandemic to protest even peacefully, on the streets about events elsewhere for a culture where recent history is vastly different is a dubious decision by the peaceful protesters. I would defend their right to yes of course, but I’d challenge their wisdom. In all truth the police are the ones who deserve praise for not rising to the bait ..because you can be sure that the nobs were there with phones ready to record a single wrong foot. 

[MaltRam]

28 minutes ago, Eddie said:

All lives won't matter until black lives matter too. While there are people that think this is a laughing matter. the struggle will continue. 

Twaddle. You've swallowed the soundbite generator.

What ducking struggle? We've gone from 'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish' to broad and common acceptance of equality, normalised multiracial families, people of all shades in parliament and a set of equality legislation of complete soundness. 60 hard years, but that's amazing progress. Another generation, and it's job done.

Problem is there's an industry now around race, and once people have a cause, and a committee, and some funding, they don't give it up.

How can we have a colourblind state until we stop talking about colour as though it matters? How many people with red hair got accepted into Oxbridge last year? We don't know, because no-one is keeping tabs, because there's no industry around rights for gingers? How many left handed people? How many under 5'6"?

You and your mindset are doing more to advance racism in this country than any skinhead banker and his white supremacy ********. We all know they're *********. The BLM view is emotionally compelling, but it drags people into a belief set that isn't based in reality.

What more can we do to advance racial equality? What practical step, right now, would you advocate?

[jono]

19 minutes ago, Needlesh said:

Twaddle. You've swallowed the soundbite generator.

What ducking struggle? We've gone from 'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish' to broad and common acceptance of equality, normalised multiracial families, people of all shades in parliament and a set of equality legislation of complete soundness. 60 hard years, but that's amazing progress. Another generation, and it's job done.

Problem is there's an industry now around race, and once people have a cause, and a committee, and some funding, they don't give it up.

How can we have a colourblind state until we stop talking about colour as though it matters? How many people with red hair got accepted into Oxbridge last year? We don't know, because no-one is keeping tabs, because there's no industry around rights for gingers? How many left handed people? How many under 5'6"?

You and your mindset are doing more to advance racism in this country than any skinhead banker and his white supremacy ********. We all know they're *********. The BLM view is emotionally compelling, but it drags people into a belief set that isn't based in reality.

What more can we do to advance racial equality? What practical step, right now, would you advocate?

Yes yes and yes again. The general consensus amongst the majority is that racism if despicable. The laws to reinforce that exist.

what remains is the attitude of a minority of individuals along with a few hidebound institutions. We need time for a new history to develop and reduce those to inconsequential levels .. there is work to be done and The demos are part of that development but the industrialisation of minority defence (worthy and important though it is) brings on its coat tails a whole raft of undesirables with distorted views as the storm in gender debate  illustrates to perfection. 

[Eddie]

37 minutes ago, Needlesh said:

Twaddle. You've swallowed the soundbite generator.

What ducking struggle? We've gone from 'No blacks, no dogs, no Irish' to broad and common acceptance of equality, normalised multiracial families, people of all shades in parliament and a set of equality legislation of complete soundness. 60 hard years, but that's amazing progress. Another generation, and it's job done.

Problem is there's an industry now around race, and once people have a cause, and a committee, and some funding, they don't give it up.

How can we have a colourblind state until we stop talking about colour as though it matters? How many people with red hair got accepted into Oxbridge last year? We don't know, because no-one is keeping tabs, because there's no industry around rights for gingers? How many left handed people? How many under 5'6"?

You and your mindset are doing more to advance racism in this country than any skinhead banker and his white supremacy ********. We all know they're *********. The BLM view is emotionally compelling, but it drags people into a belief set that isn't based in reality.

What more can we do to advance racial equality? What practical step, right now, would you advocate?

Do what you normally do - wring your hands. And if that doesn't work, apply your usual plan B - which is to do nothing.

Seriously though, call it out, report it, wherever you see it, loud and often. If you feel that will reflect badly on you, say at work, tough titty. If you are in a position where you have to make a decision whether to interview somebody for the job, don't even look at the name - just look at the body of the CV. Do what you can - but never ignore or turn your back on racists or racism.

I've been banned from here at least twice for calling people racists. No names, but I stand by every word. You cannot ignore racism - there is no such thing as being neutral. Either black lives matter - or black lives don't matter. No middle ground.

[1of4]

3 hours ago, Anon said:

There is bodycam footage of the entire attempted arrest. I would post it, but it's pretty easy to find and it's probably not appropriate to post here since it shows a fatal shooting.

There is no case to answer. If you resist arrest, then attack officers, then grab an officer's weapon, then fire that weapon at the officer you're going to get shot. If this isn't justified use of force you might as well just tell cops the truth and put them against a wall for the firing squad.

Resisting arrest doesn't allow a police officer to kill that person, even in the USA. The Police should only discharge their firearm if their or others lives are in danger.

The man killed, did indeed take a weapon from one of the policeman, it was a tazzer a none lethal weapon.

So the two policemen's lifes were in no danger and therefore should never have fired their weapon.

A completely unjustifiable killing.

[jono]

31 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do what you normally do - wring your hands. And if that doesn't work, apply your usual plan B - which is to do nothing.

Seriously though, call it out, report it, wherever you see it, loud and often. If you feel that will reflect badly on you, say at work, tough titty. If you are in a position where you have to make a decision whether to interview somebody for the job, don't even look at the name - just look at the body of the CV. Do what you can - but never ignore or turn your back on racists or racism.

I've been banned from here at least twice for calling people racists. No names, but I stand by every word. You cannot ignore racism - there is no such thing as being neutral. Either black lives matter - or black lives don't matter. No middle ground.

I don’t think anyone with a sense of justice would deny the right of the BLM cause. I’d also add that the sop of all lives matter misses the point .. that black people in the “west” have had the rawest of deals over a 300 year window in history. No equivocation here; but it is absolutely undeniable that a certain element gain zealous delight in finding a cause to get a Piggy back for their real  Cause that has F all to do with racial equality 

[BondJovi]

49 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do what you normally do - wring your hands. And if that doesn't work, apply your usual plan B - which is to do nothing.

Seriously though, call it out, report it, wherever you see it, loud and often. If you feel that will reflect badly on you, say at work, tough titty. If you are in a position where you have to make a decision whether to interview somebody for the job, don't even look at the name - just look at the body of the CV. Do what you can - but never ignore or turn your back on racists or racism.

I've been banned from here at least twice for calling people racists. No names, but I stand by every word. You cannot ignore racism - there is no such thing as being neutral. Either black lives matter - or black lives don't matter. No middle ground.

I believe the great Morgan Freeman once said, when asked of Black History Month, the idea was ridiculous and all months should be black history as it is just American history. He also said the way to stop racism was to stop talking about it. Are these racist views? Does that make him a bad person?

There is a train of thought that whilst good intentions, all it does is reinforce the differences. 

 

[sonofmidnight]

I am really hurt that certain people have cast aspertions on my views. I should not have to defend myself but I feel I must point out that in the seventies I was a teacher at a multi ethnic school in an area of Sheffield called Pitsmoor. All the staff worked incredibly hard going above board to ensure racial equality and that all the children treated each other with respect and kindness. We also socialised extensively with the parents and discussed and helped with many of the issues they faced. So if anybody is under the impression I don't understand  the issues faced by BAME people they are really wide of the mark.  I totally endorse what  Morgan Freeman has said which was pointed out by BondJovi.

[AndyinLiverpool]

17 minutes ago, Dappled Ram said:

I am really hurt that certain people have cast aspertions on my views. I should not have to defend myself but I feel I must point out that in the seventies I was a teacher at a multi ethnic school in an area of Sheffield called Pitsmoor. All the staff worked incredibly hard going above board to ensure racial equality and that all the children treated each other with respect and kindness. We also socialised extensively with the parents and discussed and helped with many of the issues they faced. So if anybody is under the impression I don't understand  the issues faced by BAME people they are really wide of the mark.  I totally endorse what  Morgan Freeman has said which was pointed out by BondJovi.

You really don’t have to defend yourself. 

[jono]

40 minutes ago, BondJovi said:

I believe the great Morgan Freeman once said, when asked of Black History Month, the idea was ridiculous and all months should be black history as it is just American history. He also said the way to stop racism was to stop talking about it. Are these racist views? Does that make him a bad person?

There is a train of thought that whilst good intentions, all it does is reinforce the differences. 

 

It’s interesting. For me race, or let’s be honest, for the most part we mean skin colour, Is just a physical characteristic, like being tall, short or having bigger ears. I notice different races in the same way as I notice a beanpole or a short arse (I am one ) . It’s a great pity we can’t accept the differences as nothing more than that. History makes it more so we need to understand that history and learn from it.